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Bloody Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    source: http://www.thestar.com/printarticle/797333
    Bloody fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    April 18, 2010
    Raveena Aulakh - The Star, Toronto, ON

    Paramedics wheel away one of five victims injured in a brawl Sunday at Brampton's Guru Nanak Sikh Centre on Glidden Rd. According to witnesses several of the participants fought with hammers, machetes and construction knives.
    SUPPLIED PHOTO

    Five people are in hospital after two opposing groups clashed inside a Brampton Sikh temple Sunday afternoon.

    The fight broke out at the Guru Nanak Sikh Centre at Glidden Rd. near Hwy 410 and Steeles Ave. when one group tried to break up the other group’s meeting. It started as a fistfight but witnesses say turbans soon flew and hammers, machetes and construction knives were brandished as a group of about 100 people clashed at about 3:45 p.m.

    The fight spilled outside as Peel Regional Police scrambled to take control, said witnesses.

    “It was quite chaotic,” said Jagdish Grewal, editor of Punjabi Post, a newspaper published in Brampton, who arrived minutes after the fight broke out and saw two men lying outside with a bloodied hammer between them. Others were being given first-aid and taken to hospital.

    Inside the hall, where the scuffle happened, Grewal said knives and machetes were still lying on the floor along with torn blood-soaked clothes. “There was blood too on the tiles,” Grewal told the Star.

    At heart is the control of the temple but no one will say that openly.

    The management was not available to comment on Sunday’s violence but members of the temple said trouble had started brewing a couple of days earlier when the group opposing the management announced that it would hold a meeting inside the temple.

    “All we wanted was to have a meeting to discuss matters of the temple,” said Rampal Dhillon, who was inside the hall when the fight broke out. “We started the meeting at 3 p.m. and it was going smoothly when about two dozen people stormed inside.”

    They were wielding hammers, machetes and construction knives, said Dhillon, who lives in Dundas, near Hamilton. There was screaming and yelling as people shoved and pushed to get outside, he added.

    “It’s an ongoing dispute among the board members,” said Const. George Tudos of Peel Regional Police, adding that police had been called in earlier. “There was indication that there might be some trouble here.”

    This fight comes two weeks after Manjit Mangat, a prominent Brampton lawyer, was stabbed outside the Sikh Lehar Centre, a Sikh temple located barely a kilometre away from the temple at Glidden Rd. Witnesses had said at least two men brandished unsheathed kirpans, the ceremonial dagger worn by baptized Sikhs, triggering a fresh controversy about Sikhs’ right to wear it.
     

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    #1 Archived_Member16, Apr 19, 2010
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: ****** fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    Control of management of the temple...a hammer, construction knives, machetes, blood soaked clothes?
     
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  4. curious seeker

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    Re: ****** fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    Narayanjot Ji

    Eek!!! You guys better start getting things under control, expel the hot heads or do something, or Sikhi will begin to look to people all over the world like Islam

    Sorry but its got to be said

    "Pray without ceasing"
    Curious
     
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  5. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: ****** fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    You are absolutely correct, CS ji.

    This is embarrassing, humiliating, disgusting, horifyinf, etc., etc., not to mention bad PR. It's really sad that Guru Nanak's name is in the middle of all this.

    Did everyone forget that 18 April is a double Gurupurab.

    I feel sick.
     

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    #4 Mai Harinder Kaur, Apr 19, 2010
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: ****** fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    FIXING things ???:confusedmunda:
     
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  7. PCJ

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    KDS, you wanted to see the difference between religion and spirituality...

    Here is one...
     
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  8. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: ****** fight erupts at Brampton Sikh temple

    Curious Seeker ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for your curiosity but it seems as also shown by your earlier posts in a different thread that you do not understand Sikhi or in this case about the religious affairs of the Muslims either.

    What is this thing about," You guys"? Why belittle others rather than offering sympathy and some inputs on new ideas?

    I have no idea why this blatant statement from your part,"or Sikhi will begin to look to people all over the world like Islam".

    One wonders what thought process went into it and how shallow it was.

    Let's try to dissect things just for the sake of fact finding which is important for any seeker especially for the curious kind.

    Sunni Mosques all over the world are built,controlled by the religiousos, from Saudi Arabia funded by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.One does not see any fights in the Mosques among the Muslims because of the heavy handed control. Most of the Prison Imams in the US are Wahhabi- the radical side of Islam ala Osama Bin Laden.

    The Shia mosques out side the Muslim countries are mainly controlled by the Ismaili Muslims also called the Aga Khanis , thus controlled by the Aga Khan honchos and one does not see any fights there either.

    Please share with us if you have news about the in fightings in the mosques and post the URL.

    Now, coming back the Sikh Gurdwaras. What happened in the other Gurdwara where Manjit Singh Mangat was stabbed has nothing to do with the fighting that took place in Brampton last weekend. These two happened for totally different reasons and both are awfully bad things to happen especially in a religious place.

    On the off set, I want to make it clear that I am not defending either of these horrendous acts but offering a reasoning for you.

    All the Gurdwaras outside India are independently owned by the trusts of the local communities unlike the most Gurdwaras in India which are either managed by the SGPC or in Delhi managed by the DGPC. There is no centralised management in the Gurdwaras outside India as with the Mosques where the Muslims worship whom you compared to the Sikhs. The infightings are common because of different parties wanting to take control over the Gurdwara but rarely they get violent.

    Yes, unfortunately, lots of money is wasted in the court battles for the take over. It also happened in a city like Henderson, NV which hardly has 100 to 150 Sikh families.

    One of the famous Gurdwaras in Los Angeles called the Lankershim Gurdwara which had a committee changed in the beginning of this year had the similar situation. The previous committee had a Punjabi and Gurmat School for 500 students which also included adults. The next door building was bought for the retired and old people for their recreation and was used for playing cards, board games etc etc and as usual Langar was served.

    The new committee refused to continue the school and the other home for the old if the members of the old committee did not pay for all that.

    This resulted in the old committee buying a closed church and open a new Gurdwara called the Khalsa Care Society. This same Gurdwara sponsors the "Singh Sensations" Basketball team which arranged the first basketball camp whose videos can be seen on SPN.

    The Gurmat school continues in the new Gurdwara. Most of the people from the other Gurdwara visit this one now. The Vaisakhi Nagar Keertan was also arranged by them for the first time.

    In Democracy, certain things are not resolved in this manner as it was in the case of the Khalsa Care Society but it is a good example that other Gurdwaras should follow rather than practicing violence which shows nothing but that we are still controlled by the five thieves in us. Gurbani teaches us how to control them rather than being controlled by them.

    Hopefully, these two different incidents happened for two different reasons will bring out some good Phoenixes from their ashes,so that things can be resolved in an amicable manner. Anger, rage, disdain, ego, false pride and lust are human traits. SGGS, our only Guru gives us the tools to handcuff them. Only if we understood and practiced what is said in Gurbani would help. Not praying to some deity or to something else.

    Common sense and wisdom given to us by our Gurus would suffice if practiced upon in a diligent manner.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #7 Tejwant Singh, Apr 19, 2010
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  9. BhagatSingh

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    I think that this one is more of a political issue, free of religious justification. At least I hope so...
     
  10. ballym

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Why in Canada all of a sudden... in quick succession? Manmohan asking harper out of context or any urgency.
    Someone wants to prove something?
    Kamal Nath teaching another lesson to sikhs? Lesson #2 after November 1984?
    How dare you file a case against me?
     
  11. PCJ

    PCJ
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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Since everything happens with His Hukam, this is how it meant to be. This is the outcome of an organized religion...
     
  12. BhagatSingh

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    If I understand you correctly, I think that's a non sequitur.
    "It rains therefore I am Punjabi."
    "Since everything is His hukam therefore this is organized religion."
    in other words, your conclusion doesn't follow the presmise.
     
  13. ballym

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    PCJ is back to pointing fingers. Give a solution please.If not sikhi what else.
     
  14. BhagatSingh

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Ballym ji we are still trying to understand the problem. That's the first step to problem solving. :)
     
  15. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Tejwant Singh ji,

    I have the highest respect for you, but in this case I must disagree with you.

    Everything you say is spot-on true, but that's not the point.

    The point is not what we are, but what others perceive us to be. What is true here really doesn't matter to the public, only their perceptions. The public sees the Muslims as violent and turban-wearing. The public is now seeing us as violent and turban wearing. In addition, the public perception is that we make it a religious virtue to carry a knife. They do not know or care about the difference between a kirpan and a mere knife. I'm beginning to think this is true also of some Sikhs.

    These violent events comprise two related problems. The first is within our own community. Sikh attacking Sikh with is simply unacceptable. We have a serious rupture that must be healed unless we want to bleed to death. As a people, I know we are not good at reaching peaceful solutions internally. I submit that we had better learn quickly if we want to survive as a viable world religion.
    Forget, for a moment our desire to survive as a community for our own good. For the good of humanity we must survive! The world badly needs what we have to offer. We have an unbelievably precious treasure. The answers to all of humanity's problems are in the teachings of SGGS ji Maharaj. We have an obligation to be here to make this way of life available to those who want it.

    The second problem is with the larger human community. We now look like a bunch of hooligans without either morality or self-control. How on earth can we hope to convince others that we are a peaceful, law biding people, when these acts of blo.ody aggression are taking place in our houses of worship by our own members. The public really doesn't care whether the reasons are religious or political; they only see the acts themselves. And the acts are damning. They must stop.

    ikonkaar
     
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  16. PCJ

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    There might not be any solution. Solution is generally personal for every individual. Solution is that no individual needs to be part of organized religion in order to be closer to Lord. They simply need to practice the truth on their own...

    Have a good, gotta go to work....
     
  17. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Mai ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Likewise. I have the highest regard for you but I have no fear about how others perceive us. We have to do a better job ourselves. What happened is shameless and disgusting, but that is not the point I was trying to make. Curious Seeker is not a Muslim. Muslims do not have fights in their mosques as mentioned by me in my other post.

    Your point about Kirpan is another matter and is nothing to do with this thread. Yes, we reap what we sow. We can not carry the Kirpans on the planes now nor to the court houses. Does that make us bad Sikhs? I do not think so. If we are not able to respect our symbols then we do not deserve to carry them. Simply put. But this discussion is for another thread and for some other time.

    You must have read the essay by my 14 year old son Trimaan which he did for his English class and posted it here and how he as an individual solved the problem about him being called Osama in his middle school.

    The perception of us being Muslims is much less now than it was during 9-11. Organisations like the Sikh Coalition, Saldef, United Sikhs have done a magnificent job about this after 9-11.

    But it is cheeky and rather ignorant on some member's part who is not a Muslim to utter this kind of blatant unthoughtful statement of comparison and the funny part is that the same person has been trying to propagate his own faith in this forum.

    It is nothing to do with that. Yes, some may call us violent and rightfully so and we must mend that within the community by following our only Guru, the SGGS.

    Let's try to find the root cause together so we can find the solutions from the Gurmat Ideals given to us in the SGGS.

    This kind of rhetoric about " You People" does not do any good but belittles no matter what hue,creed or faith one belongs to.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  18. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Gurufateh to you as well, Tejwant ji,

    I believe we are in completely agreement as to the basics. And it is true that the only legitimate way to solve Problem#2 (the perceptions of the larger community) is to solve Problem #1 (the problem of intolerance leading to violence in our own community).

    Actually, I somehow missed your son's essay. I read it just now ans you certainly have cause to be proud of your son. One very small point, I believe the word "not" was left out of the second sentence, "What they do realize is the ignorance behind their mentality; their “lack of knowledge."
     
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  19. Bahadar S

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Everyhting is within the Hukam of the Akaal Purakh nothing is out and everything done always has a positive side. Although it is very embarrssing to see our fellow Sikh's doing this.
     
  20. Archived_Member16

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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Sikh Canadians Horrified by Violence: World Sikh Organization of Canada

    [​IMG] [​IMG] OTTAWA, ONTARIO -- (Marketwire) -- 04/19/10 -- The World Sikh Organization of Canada (WSO) joins the Sikh community in Canada in expressing horror and disappointment at the incident at Brampton's Sri Guru Nanak Sikh Centre in which several individuals were injured. Violence cannot and should not be tolerated and WSO strongly condemns the events that took place.

    This incident is not linked to the incident which took place on April 2, 2010 at the Sikh Lehar Centre in Brampton.

    The Sikh faith teaches tolerance and love. Incidents like these do not represent the Sikh community or Sikh values. It is even more unfortunate that these incidents have taken place this month as Sikhs celebrate Vaisakhi, one of the most important Sikh festivals of the year, which marks the formation of the Khalsa, the final form of the Sikh faith. At a time when Sikhs want to share their tolerant and inclusive religious values with their fellow Canadians and celebrate their over 100 year history in Canada, irresponsible and unacceptable behavior by some has cast a shadow over the entire community.

    <!--portletbreak-->WSO president Prem Singh Vinning said, "These incidents aren't representative of the Sikh community and are against the principles of the Sikh faith. Violence to resolve disputes is not the Sikh way and it's not the Canadian way. The Sikh community must step forward and ensure that those responsible are held accountable and not allowed to malign the image of the community any further."

    WSO's senior policy advisor Gian Singh Sandhu said, "It's tragic that the Sikh community's image is hostage to the irresponsible actions of a few individuals. They aren't representative of the Sikh community at large. We are all shocked by what has happened and we need to make sure that the average Canadian Sikh, who is repulsed by incidents like this, is brought to the forefront. It's a shame that these recent events seem to have eclipsed all the good work the Sikh community has been doing across Canada like raising hundreds of thousands for the relief work in Haiti or contributions by the community to local hospitals in Surrey and Brampton. The Sikh community is not violent and the image created by these incidents is not fair."

    The onus is now on Canadian Sikhs to ensure that those individuals who act irresponsibly are sidelined and not allowed to further harm the Sikh image.
    The World Sikh Organization of Canada (WSO) is a non-profit organization with a mandate to promote and protect the interests of the Sikh Diaspora, as well as to promote and advocate for the protection of human rights for all individuals, irrespective of race, religion, gender, ethnicity, and social and economic status.

    Please visit www.worldsikh.ca or www.twitter.com/worldsikhorg for further information.

    Contacts:
    World Sikh Organization of Canada
    Gian Singh Sandhu
    604-341-2755
    gianssandhu@gmail.com

    World Sikh Organization of Canada
    Balpreet Singh
    416-904-9110
    balpreetsingh@worldsikh.org
    www.worldsikh.ca


    <SMALL>© 2008 SYS-CON Media Inc.</SMALL>
     
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  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Bloo.dy Fight Erupts at Brampton Sikh Temple

    Will the positive side be that perhaps now we are shaken out of our slumber? About this, and other problems as well?

    I do have another question. From the article:
    The onus is now on Canadian Sikhs to ensure that those individuals who act irresponsibly are sidelined and not allowed to further harm the Sikh image.

    How do we proceed?

     

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