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Christianity biblical prophecy

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by rasingh, Jan 28, 2005.

  1. rasingh

    rasingh
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    The Bible contains "Book of Revelations", which are prophecies for the future. Seems like most of these are similar to what Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce (also see ascension2000 website ) have predicted. Also the end of the world is predicted by 2011/2012 (some mention a different date, but the theme is the same.).
    My question is:
    1) Does sikhism say anything about end of the world and how/when it will happen? To me sikh guru's teachings mainly dealt with the present than the future (other than how to change the present for a better future..).
    (Just to clarify, the question is not if the prophecies in the bible are true or not.)

    Thanks.
    rasingh
     
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  3. CaramelChocolate

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    I read on a Sikh website once that Sikhs are foretold in the Bible... They had a quote also.... I am looking for this quote so if anybody has it then please post it here.
     
  4. muslim

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    The Biblical prophecies on the advent of the Prophet Muhammad [​IMG] are evidence of the truth of Islam for people who believe in the Bible.



    In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).1

    From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:

    1) That he will be like Moses.

    2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.

    3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.

    Let us examine these three characteristics in more depth:

    1) A prophet like Moses:

    There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a prophet of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So, this prophecy refers to the Prophet Muhammad and not to Jesus, because Muhammad is more like Moses than Jesus.
    Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18.2 We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.

    2) From the brothers of the Israelites:

    Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad [​IMG], a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed this prophet.

    Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His “chosen one” and “messenger” who will bring down a law. “He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad [​IMG].

    3) God will put His words in the mouth of this prophet:

    The words of God (the Holy Quran) were truly put into Muhammad’s [​IMG] mouth. God sent the Angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad [​IMG] the exact words of God (the Holy Quran) and asked him to dictate them to the people as he heard them. The words are therefore not his own. They did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the Angel Gabriel. During the life time of Muhammad [​IMG], and under his supervision, these words were then memorized and written by his companions.

    Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, “In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”


    Another indication (other than the prophecy in Deuteronomy) is that Isaiah ties the messenger connected with Kedar with a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sung to the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). This is mentioned more clearly in the prophecy of Isaiah: “and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11 KJV). Another related point, is that the Quran was revealed in sections over a span of twenty-three years. It is interesting to compare this with Isaiah 28 which speaks of the same thing, “For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.” (Isaiah 28:10).

    Note that God has said in the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18, “If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy, 18:19). This means that whoever believes in the Bible must believe in what this prophet says, and this prophet is the Prophet Muhammad.
     
  5. rasingh

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    Thanks for the information in the two replies on this thread so far. But, my original question is still unanswered.::cool::

    I would though also like to know where in the bible the coming of the sikhs is foretold. That would be very interesting.

    Thanks
     
  6. muslim

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    Hmm yes i would also like to hear how they have been foretold, sounds extremely interesting.
     
  7. BabbarSher

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    Nopes. Sikhism does not give any prophecies, or fortell the future.

    It only speaks of the one truth and the prophecy related to those who follow the path and those who do not.

    Ultimate truth is the quest for sikhs and thats what our scriptures state, rather than harping on about prophecies about the perishable matter and the world.

    Akal Sahai
     
  8. Amerikaur

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    I wish I knew for certain about the verse that was being spoken of. The prophet Ezekial (a priest who lived amongst Jewish exiles in Babylon) experienced a monumental vision from God, where the Almighty appointed him as the "watchman of Israel" (Ezekial 3:17)

    Ezekial 38 predicts of a time when Israel will come under attack, and Israel will win in tremendous fury. An article from a Christian bible mag states that a British scholar fortold (150 years ago) that such a thing will be forthcoming when Israel opens up substantial trade with Tarshish, believed to be India, see page 14 and page 20 on the link below.

    Of particular note is a photo on page 14, the magazine picked three images to show in the article. One is a photo of the Israeli President and family on a trip to India. The second is a map of how the traders would have found Tarshish.

    The third is a picture of Sikh infantrymen serving alongside the British in World War I. This picture is stunning.

    http://www.biblemagazine.com/magazine/vol-10/v10i3mag.pdf

    As far as how Sikhs were fortold, in Ezekial 38:13 there is a mention of Tarshish and its villiages/peoples in modern phrasings of the Bible.

    However...going back to the original King James Version...I was quite stunned to see the Old English word that was used to describe the villiages/people of Tarshish.


    Ezekial 38

    1: And the word of the LORD came unto me [Ezekial], saying, 2: Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

    [Literally: "Gog" was/is/will be king of "Magog", a land believed now to be central Turkey. Meshech and Tubal are God's confederates. However - in the book of Ezekial, "Gog" appears to be more of a symbol (of what will befall Israel) rather than an actual person

    3: And [Ezekial, you] say, ["]Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4: And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. 7: Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

    8: After many days thou [Gog] shalt be visited: in the latter years [far into the future] thou [Gog] shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword [the nation of Israel], and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out [the efforts of people] of [many of the] the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    9: Thou [Gog] shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land [of Israel], thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

    10: Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy [Gog's] mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11: And thou [Gog} shalt say, ['] I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12: To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine [Gog's] hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.[']

    13: Sheba, and Dedan [trading posts in Arabia], and the merchants of Tarshish [believed to be India], with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, [']Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? [What gives you the right to] to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? [']

    Note that the entites mentioned in the beginning of Verse 13 are the ones that are taking a stand against the injustice of Gog. Who are these people standing against injustice? It wouldn't be the Jews. Because...God is revealing this to His "watchman of Israel" that this pludering is all part of His plan. It seems logical to me that the ones standing up to the wrongs of Gog are NOT Jews (or Christians).

    The Merchants of India with all the young lions, indeed.

    That's enough to make me wonder...what about you?
     
  9. FireStorm

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    Regarding Biblical prophecy I would like to share the following very interesting link regarding failed prophecies wrt end of the world.

    <<Many of the prophecies are taken from Bible and are related to Christians - through being proclaimed by Pope etc.>>

    About 30 CE: The Christian Gospels record many predictions by Jesus of Nazareth that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen.
    500 CE: This was the first year-with-a-nice-round-number-panic. The antipope Hippolytus and an earlier Christian academic Sextus Julius Africanus had predicted Armageddon at about this year.
    1919: Meteorologist Albert Porta predicted that the conjunction of 6 planets would generate a magnetic current that would cause the sun to explode and engulf the earth on DEC-17.
    1948: During this year, the state of Israel was founded. Some Christians believed that this event was the final prerequisite for the second coming of Jesus. Various end of the world predictions were made in the range 1888 to 2048.
    1967: During the six day war, the Israeli army captured all of Jerusalem. Many conservative Christians believed that the rapture would occur quickly. However, the final Biblical prerequisite for the second coming is that the Jews resume ritual animal sacrifices in the temple at Jerusalem. That never happened.
    1982: Pat Robertson predicted a few years previously that the world would end in the fall of 1982.
    1990-APR-23: Elizabeth Clare Prophet, leader of the Church Universal and Triumphant made a series of statements that many members believed indicated the start of nuclear war on this date. At least 2,000 followers traveled Montana to occupy CUT's fallout shelters.
    1991: Mother Shipton, a 16th century mystic predicted the end of the world: "...The world to an end shall come; in nineteen hundred and ninety-one."
    1993-NOV-11: The 1993-JUL-20 issue of the Weekly World News contained an article titled "Doomsday Asteroids." Top scientists allegedly wrote a top-secret document which revealed that M-167, a known asteroid, would hit the earth on NOV-11 and perhaps end all life on earth. The M series of astronomical objects were catalogued by Messier: M-1 is the crab nebula; M-31 is the Andromeda galaxy; M-45 are the Pleiades. There is no M object with a number higher than M-110...
    [​IMG]
    1999-JAN: According to the 1997-JUN-24 issue of Sun Magazine Pope John XXIII predicted in 1962 that visitors from outer space will arrive in chariots of flaming steel and will share their advanced knowledge with humanity. Our life span will be increased to 150 years or longer. Most diseases will be wiped out...
    1999-JAN/FEB: Between JAN-20 and FEB-4, an asteroid measuring 20 miles in diameter and traveling about 20,000 miles/hour was predicted to earth. At that speed and probable mass, it would totally disrupt all life processes on earth. Dr. Morris Plammer said that a photo was leaked to him by "highly placed friends" within NASA. The photo allegedly contains markings in the shape of a Satanic face...
    1999-APR-3: Ed. Dames, president of PsyTech predicted that solar flares would strike the earth during the Easter weekend (APR-3 and 4 in the West). Persons who were living in caves or under the earth might survive. The rest of the world's population would be killed. He predicted that space aliens would arrive about 2012 to rescue the few survivors. Ed., his family and employees spent the weekend hiding out inside a lava tube in Hawaii...
    1999-OCT-10: "The Prophet" predicted that the Jerusalem Temple would be rebuilt before this date, and that ritual killing of animals would have resumed within this Third Temple. The ritual sacrificing was to be abolished on OCT-10. This would have triggered the "abomination of desolation," and the rapture, as mentioned in the Biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. On OCT-11, we received an Email from The Prophet saying that he has retracted the prediction of the rapture and the abomination. He is out of the prophecy business...
    1999-FALL: Brookhaven National Laboratory fired up their Relativistic heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) to full power. This simulated conditions that scientists believe happened immediately after the big bang. They expected to attain a temperature of 10 trillion degrees C (18 trillion degrees F). In 1999-JUL, the Sunday Times of London warned that the RHIC could destroy the earth -- or even wipe out the entire universe through a type of chain reaction. The chances seem quite remote because such collisions happen naturally in nature and the universe has not disappeared yet. Anyway, you are reading this, so it probably didn't happen...
    [​IMG]
    Past predictions of the end of the world all share one factor: none ever came true. We are once again in a year with three zeros in it. A lot of people are predicting major events of cosmic proportion. We are quite certain that they will be disappointed...

    The year 2000 arrived. Not much happened. Millennial the panic subsided very quickly. Whether passions will be rekindled as the real end of the second millennium approaches in late 2000 is difficult to predict...

    Harvard professor of zoology and geology Stephen Jay Gould has pointed out that the word millennium was originally a Biblical apocalyptic term linked to the second coming of Jesus. It is evolving into a matter-of-fact designation for the end of a 1000 year period. "The basic reason for 'millennium' switching from a description of the future to a counting in the present stems from the failure of this expected future to materialize."

    For many people around the world, a new millennium will not be starting in the immediate future. That is because they follow their own religious calendar. For example, the date 2000-JAN-1 is the middle of the year:

    155 BE for Baha'is --1921 SE for Hindus -- 5760 AM for Jews
    1421 H. for Muslims -- 301 KE for Sikhs -- 1368 Y for Zoroastrians
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]The inevitable end of the world
    There are two likely, naturally occurring but rare events that have the potential to cause the end of all life on earth: Sometime in the future, a large asteroid will head towards earth. If it is not pulverized and scattered, or deflected, it will wipe out most of humanity. The rock may come next month, or may be delayed for tens of millions of years. But it is coming!

    Scientists are quite confident that, life on earth cannot [last] much more than another 5 billion years. At about that time, the sun will become unstable. It will expand into a red giant, and engulf the Earth...I am personally not too worried about this event.

    Many dozens of prophecies have been made which predict the end of the world (or at least a major catastrophe) in our near future, due to massive shifts in the earth's axis, melting ice caps, world-wide floods, other natural disasters, World War III, attack by space aliens, etc. However, these types of catastrophes have been predicted many times in the past with a 100% failure rate. It is unlikely that any of them will come true in our near-term future.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Three of the many interpretations that theologians have made about Revelation:
    Allegorical approach:The events in Revelation will not happen literally. They are to be interpreted figuratively and symbolically. This approach leads to many very different scenarios.

    Historical approach: Most of the events in Revelation have already happened, perhaps during the persecution of Christians during the reign of Emperors Nero or Domitian.

    Futuristic approach:This is the approach taken by almost all Fundamentalists and other Evangelical Christians. The events in Revelation have yet to occur, but are anticipated in the very near future. The end times will unfold exactly as specified.

    To this list, a fourth option presents itself:

    Meaningless approach: The book is made up of hallucinations experienced by the author. They might have been a series of nightmares that the author had. They might have been induced by eating hallucinogenic material (mushrooms, cacti, certain types of moulds etc.) In other words, the writing may be devoid of any theological meaning.

    Conservative Christians typically believe...that the end time is very near...They believe that the elements of the end times (tribulation, rapture, Armageddon, and millennium) will occur exactly as specified. However, there are many conflicting theories about the order of the events: Historical Premillennialism, Dispensational Premillennialism, and Amillennialism are three mutually exclusive theories of the sequence of ten time happenings. The author of Revelation clearly anticipated the end of the world within a few years of the writing of the book. He writes in the first chapter about "things which must shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand." Of course, it never happened.

    Most liberals pay little attention to the book. They largely reject it because it portrays a God who is extremely hateful and bent on revenge against virtually all humanity. The God of Revelation bears no resemblance to the loving, kind Abba who was worshiped by Jesus. The book describes armies fighting on horseback with primitive, first century weapons. It obviously has little relevance to us today. It was simply probably apocalyptic literature which was written to bolster the morale of 1st century Christians in 7 churches, located in present-day Turkey.

    Mark 13, sometimes called the Little Apocalypse. It is also called the Olivet Prophecy, because it was delivered on the Mount of Olives near Jerusalem. Jesus describes the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 CE, some 40 years in the future. This was to be preceded by many signs: the arrival of counterfeit messiahs, wars and rumors of wars. The disciples will be persecuted, Jerusalem will be devastated, a desolating sacrilege will be set up in the temple, false messiahs and prophets will perform miracles, the sun will dim, the moon will not shine, the heavens will convulse. Jesus will return to earth with his angels to collect the faithful. Heaven and earth will disappear.

    The author of Mark cautions his followers to be alert, because it will happen to them without warning within their lifetimes. Although this is presented as a continuous sequence of events, conservative Christians believe that the first part of the prophecy relates to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, whereas the remainder refers to Jesus' second coming in our future. This material is paralleled in Matthew 24, Luke 17:22-37, and Luke 21.

    [​IMG]
    21st century: Thomas Chase predicts that when the world's population reaches 6.66billion, the war of Armageddon may occur. As of early 1999, it is close to 6.0 billion...
    Michael Drosnin, author of "The Bible Code," found a hidden message in the Pentateuch (the first five books in the Bible) that predicts that World War III, involving a worldwide atomic [sic] holocaust, will start in 2000 (or perhaps 2006)...
    Hal Lindsey currently does not make specific predictions about the end of the world. In his book The Late Great Planet Earth he did predict the battle of Armageddon in 2000 CE and the second coming of Christ in 2007 CE. He also cited 2048 as an alternate date...
    2000-NOV: According to Weekly World News for 1999-APR-27, Nostradamus predicted that a giant asteroid will hit the earth in late November. This will start a fire that will burn up the planet.
    2000-DEC-25: According to the 1997-JUN-24 issue of Sun Magazine Pope John XXIII predicted in 1962 that Christ would appear in the sky over New York City. He will announce the creation of a 1000-year paradise...
    2001-JAN-31: Sun Magazine reported in its 1997-OCT-14 issue that Noah's Ark had been discovered intact in undamaged form on a slope near Mount Ararat in Turkey. Inside were a group of 6 copper-gold-silver scrolls, each 12" square. Scroll 2 reveals that the sun will superheat the earth, melting both polar ice caps, and creating a world-wide flood. Scroll 3 reveals that Doomsday is set for 2001-JAN-31. Good people who repent of their sins will be saved; cruel tyrants will be cast into the burning fires of Hell.
    2012-DEC-22: The Mayan calendar expressed a date in the form: 6.19.18.1.5 This means: 6 Baktun, an interval of 144,000 days, -- 19 Katun (generations) of 7200 days, -- 18 Tun (years) of 360 days, -- 1 Uinal (month) of 20 days, -- 5 Kin (days) for a total of 1,007,305 days. J.Eric Thompson determined that the first day of their calendar (0.0.0.0.0) was on 3114-AUG-11 BCE according to the Gregorian calendar...Mayans also had a "Great Cycle of the Long Count" of 13 Baktuns or 5,125.36 years. They believed that the universe would last exactly that length of time. They anticipated the end of the world at the Winter Solstice. 2012-DEC-21 or 13.0.0.0.0 in their notation...
    2017: The "Sword of God Brotherhood" believes that Armageddon will occur in 2017.The Prophet Gabriel has told them this. Only their own members will survive to repopulate the world. All of the others (including you and me) will "perish in hellfire.
     
  10. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    This the reason why Guru Ji did not believe in prophecies. Let all happen according to God, we shouldn't intervene, even if we are prophets (not saying there are any now, just in the past.)
     
  11. truthseeker

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    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh!

    I totally agree with Sher Singh ji;s comment... We do9nt kno what Guru ji is thinking or doing and really i dont think that we should even try to kno what will happen 20 years from now, we should just live our lives and when we die or the earth blows up or w.e it is we just have to except it because that is Guru ji;s will for us.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh!
     
  12. UnstoppableSingh

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    2 things......

    1) Personally i've always been taught this..... "A Sikh lives in the present. As the past is done and the future is always changing. A Sikh lives in the moment so as to not forget that the next moment might not come."

    2) From my studying there is some prophecies. Only one that i know for sure is the arrival of Kalanki Avtar aka Nahklank Avtar and of Mhir Mahndi. (Both mentioned in Dasam Granth i'll try to get the exact page later on). Both of these Avtars will lead there respective religions in war. Both are to have one huge confrontation. Mhir Mahndi is considered a smaller prophet for Islam (Hazrat or something i forgot the term). Some say he is already here and is gaining fame in the middle east (and no its not Osama).

    Also...... from reading other works they have told of Guru Gobind Singh Ji writting "Soah Sahki" (basically prophecies). But this is part of the lost treasure of Sikhism thats held by the British along with other personal items from Guru Jis estate and Gurdwaras across India (along with Kohinoor Diamond)

    Hope that helps.
     
  13. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    in fact there is a prophecy made in Babarbani of Guru Granth Sahib ji regarding the advent of Sher Shah Suri in advance and it totaly defies what our missioaries say is based upon preseption mangement(it is an art of prediction based upon extropolation and by mercy of Akal das is an expert in it) but it is something to do with travel in time in advance or in back(based on theory of relativity by albert instine) as exact Samvat(era) can not be told in shaky matters like the coming of a weak king from Bihar onto mighty mughals and that also during the era of mighty baber who was undefetable.

    Say had it been made on preception mamangemnt and failed then Fifth Master would not have took it in Guru Granth Sahib(this verses are from First Master).If this can be by perception mamagement then why not Kalki or Mehadi Meer.
     

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