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Yogism Bhagat Jaidev's Influence on Yoga

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Luckysingh, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I have just come across this by Mr sikhnet.
    http://www.mrsikhnet.com/2008/10/16/sodarshan-chakra-kriya-meditation/

    it is labelled as 'sodarshan chakra kriya meditation'

    This particular yog kriya has it's full reference to Bhagat Jaidev's shabad on Ang 1106

    ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ

    Rāg mārū baṇī jaiḏe▫o jī▫o kī

    Raag Maaroo, The Word Of Jai Dayv Jee:


    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ

    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


    ਚੰਦ ਸਤਭੇਦਿਆ ਨਾਦ ਸਤ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਸੂਰ ਸਤ ਖੋੜਸਾ ਦਤੁ ਕੀਆ



    Cẖanḏ saṯ bẖeḏi▫ā nāḏ saṯ pūri▫ā sūr saṯ kẖoṛsā ḏaṯ kī▫ā.

    The breath is drawn in through the left nostril; it is held in the central channel of the Sukhmanaa, and exhaled through the right nostril, repeating the Lord's Name sixteen times.


    ਅਬਲ ਬਲੁ ਤੋੜਿਆ ਅਚਲ ਚਲੁ ਥਪਿਆ ਅਘੜੁ ਘੜਿਆ ਤਹਾ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਆ ॥੧॥

    Abal bal ṯoṛi▫ā acẖal cẖal thapi▫ā agẖaṛ gẖaṛi▫ā ṯahā api▫o pī▫ā. ||1||

    I am powerless; my power has been broken. My unstable mind has been stabilized, and my unadorned soul has been adorned. I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||


    ਮਨ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਣ ਆਦਿ ਵਖਾਣਿਆ

    Man āḏ guṇ āḏ vakẖāṇi▫ā.

    Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue.


    ਤੇਰੀ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

    Ŧerī ḏubiḏẖā ḏarisat sammāni▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

    My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away. ||1||Pause||


    ਅਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਅਰਧਿਆ ਸਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਸਰਧਿਆ ਸਲਲ ਕਉ ਸਲਲਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿ ਆਇਆ

    Araḏẖ ka▫o arḏẖi▫ā saraḏẖ ka▫o sarḏẖi▫ā salal ka▫o salal sammān ā▫i▫ā.

    I worship the One who is worthy of being worshipped. I trust the One who is worthy of being trusted. Like water merging in water, I merge in the Lord.


    ਬਦਤਿ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਕਉ ਰੰਮਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਲਿਵ ਲੀਣੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੧॥

    Baḏaṯ jaiḏe▫o Jaiḏev ka▫o rammi▫ā barahm nirbāṇ liv līṇ pā▫i▫ā. ||2||1||

    Says Jai Dayv, I meditate and contemplate the Luminous, Triumphant Lord. I am lovingly absorbed in the Nirvaanaa of God. ||2||1||




    Bhagat Jaidev's bani was in the collection of Guru Nanak Ji's pothis from his travels. Guru Arjan Dev ji included them as per compilations of Guru Nanak ji.
    I know that the above reference to left and right nostril is reference to Irhaa and Pingla(for yoga) for which Guru Nanak ji has pointed out in other places that there is no difference in them as per gurmat and that he sees them and accepts both as the same.
    Because true meditation within yourself (naam simran) and directed at the true source or mool is ALL the irrha,pingla and sushmana.. ie.NO DUALITY.
    Controlling breath by assuming left and right nostrils have different actions is empty practicing without any focus on the true mool or source.

    However, we have Mr Sikhnet that seems to interpret this literally and it becomes contradicting to other shabads.

    I've tried to look at the teekas but I can't make enough for a conclusion !!
    Even when I try using the yogic metaphors of these left and right nostrils representing the Moon and Sun respectively, I don't get any closer !
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    It is late on my side of the world. Somehow I can't muster up the energy to enter into a dialog with you about the pangatee. But I will say this. Reread what you yourself have written. I think you have the answer and have answered your own question.

    All the yogas are the same. What matters in the end? Is yoga the path to that goal? You already have given the answer.
     
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    #2 spnadmin, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  4. spnadmin

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    Later, tomorrow maybe... several forum members will tussle with the translation issues and the discovery process will be a good learning experience.
     
  5. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    All the Yog, Jog, mantra, jantra are there in the Rahao Pankti

    ਮਨ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਣ ਆਦਿ ਵਖਾਣਿਆ ॥

    Man āḏ guṇ āḏ vakẖāṇi▫ā.

    Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue.


    ਤੇਰੀ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

    Ŧerī ḏubiḏẖā ḏarisat sammāni▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

    My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away.
     
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  6. singhbj

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  7. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Guru Nanak Dev ji had apparently visited Bhagat Jaidev's village on his travels and collected some hymns that he included in his pothi.
    What I can't seem to undertstand is why Guru Arjan Dev ji included just 2 hymns of Bhagat Jaidev ji and this was one of them ??

    Was Bhagat ji one of those who practiced full yoga and he somehow manipulated or used the practice to attain naam and unity with the supreme ??

    The rahao line seems to give the rightful message of not being separate, but it also seems this result is attained with the breathing, 16 times chant/breath practice ?
    This is what I can't get my head round, since the shabad comes across very direct ?
     
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  8. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Lucky Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    In my opinion, you have totally misunderstood the Shabad. The nectar- the true meaning lies in Rahao. The breathing 16 times through nostrils is what he is trying to say he practiced and still felt nothing. In other words, it is not about yoga but its meaninglessness to be with The One.

    Secondly, your query about only 2 hymns from Bhagat Jaidev are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because our Gurus picked and chose the poetry of the Bhagats. They only used which complimented their own idea of The One.

    The case in point is that many Saloks by Bhagat Kabir did not pass that benchmark, hence not included. Nor did any poetry by Bhai Gurdas and Nand Lal pass their rigorous tests to be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #7 Tejwant Singh, Feb 17, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  9. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Thank-you Tejwant ji, you have helped me get my head round this (i think) !
    My main concern was that this shabad has been used for supporting the above mentioned yoga kriya by Yogi Bhajan and Mr Sikhnet !!
    Don't get me wrong, I still have huge respect for the yogi for his contribution to over a 100,000 amritdhari gora sikhs, as I can't imagine any one doing that in this day!

    I am quite devoted to meditation and naam simran and I don't have a problem with using yoga to help on focus on shabad guru. But I do see a problem when it instructs you to repeat x amount of times/breath..etc.. as this is not telling you anything about where your 'dhian' should be.
    This is why I rejected this so called kriya and the instructions misinterpreted from the shabad.

    However, I can actually see how you have explained the shabad now but only after looking at the other shabad by Bhagat Jaidev ji.

    It makes you realise how simple gurbani can actually be at times and how others can contribute to making it complicated.

    As I said earlier that Guru Nanak Ji had visited Jaidev's pind and picked 2 hymns for his pothi compilation, I then went and checked this other shabad!
    Since I was wondering ''WHY"" the inclusion of the above shabad, I can now clearly see why Guru Nanak ji had actually picked it!

    We know that the only chronological order besides japji is the raags and the rest of gurbani is presented this way, one has to just look at this other shabad which is in raag gujri and this particular one which was in raag maroo.

    -On ang 526

    ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ
    Gūjrī sarī Jaiḏev jī▫o kā paḏā gẖar 4
    Goojaree, Padas Of Jai Dayv Jee, Fourth House:
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    ਪਰਮਾਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਮਨੋਪਿਮੰ ਸਤਿ ਆਦਿ ਭਾਵ ਰਤੰ
    Parmāḏ purakẖmanopimaʼn saṯ āḏ bẖāv raṯaʼn.
    In the very beginning, was the Primal Lord, unrivalled, the Lover of Truth and other virtues.
    ਪਰਮਦਭੁਤੰ ਪਰਕ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪਰੰ ਜਦਿਚਿੰਤਿ ਸਰਬ ਗਤੰ ੧॥
    Parmaḏ▫bẖuṯaʼn parkariṯ paraʼn jaḏcẖinṯ sarab gaṯaʼn. ||1||
    He is absolutely wonderful, transcending creation; remembering Him, all are emancipated. ||1||
    ਕੇਵਲ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਮਨੋਰਮੰ
    Keval rām nām manormaʼn.
    Dwell only upon the beauteous Name of the Lord,
    ਬਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤਤ ਮਇਅੰ
    Baḏ amriṯ ṯaṯ ma▫i▫aʼn.
    the embodiment of ambrosial nectar and reality.
    ਦਨੋਤਿ ਜਸਮਰਣੇਨ ਜਨਮ ਜਰਾਧਿ ਮਰਣ ਭਇਅੰ ੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    Na ḏanoṯ jasmarṇen janam jarāḏẖ maraṇ bẖa▫i▫aʼn. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Remembering Him in meditation, the fear of birth, old age and death will not trouble you. ||1||Pause||
    ਇਛਸਿ ਜਮਾਦਿ ਪਰਾਭਯੰ ਜਸੁ ਸ੍ਵਸਤਿ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਤੰ
    Icẖẖas jamāḏ parābẖ▫yaʼn jas savasṯ sukariṯ kirt▫aʼn.
    If you desire to escape the fear of the Messenger of Death, then praise the Lord joyfully, and do good deeds.
    ਭਵ ਭੂਤ ਭਾਵ ਸਮਬ੍ਯ੍ਯਿਅੰ ਪਰਮੰ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨਮਿਦੰ ੨॥
    Bẖav bẖūṯ bẖāv sam▫bi▫yam parmaʼn parsanmiḏaʼn. ||2||
    In the past, present and future, He is always the same; He is the embodiment of supreme bliss. ||2||
    ਲੋਭਾਦਿ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਪਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੰ ਜਦਿਬਿਧਿ ਆਚਰਣੰ
    Lobẖāḏ ḏarisat par garihaʼn jaḏibiḏẖ ācẖarṇaʼn.
    If you seek the path of good conduct, forsake greed, and do not look upon other men's property and women.
    ਤਜਿ ਸਕਲ ਦੁਹਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੁਰਮਤੀ ਭਜੁ ਚਕ੍ਰਧਰ ਸਰਣੰ ੩॥
    Ŧaj sakal ḏuhkariṯ ḏurmaṯī bẖaj cẖakarḏẖar sarṇaʼn. ||3||
    Renounce all evil actions and evil inclinations, and hurry to the Sanctuary of the Lord. ||3||
    ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤ ਨਿਜ ਨਿਹਕੇਵਲਾ ਰਿਦ ਕਰਮਣਾ ਬਚਸਾ
    Har bẖagaṯ nij nihkevlā riḏ karmaṇā bacẖsā.
    Worship the immaculate Lord, in thought, word and deed.

    ਜੋਗੇਨ ਕਿੰ ਜਗੇਨ ਕਿੰ ਦਾਨੇਨ ਕਿੰ ਤਪਸਾ ॥੪॥
    Jogen kiʼn jagen kiʼn ḏāḏen kiʼn ṯapsā. ||4||
    What is the good of practicing Yoga, giving feasts and charity, and practicing penance? ||4||

    ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇਤਿ ਜਪਿ ਨਰ ਸਕਲ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਦੰ
    Gobinḏ gobinḏeṯ jap nar sakal siḏẖ paḏaʼn.
    Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the Universe, O man; He is the source of all the spiritual powers of the Siddhas.
    ਜੈਦੇਵ ਆਇਉ ਤਸ ਸਫੁਟੰ ਭਵ ਭੂਤ ਸਰਬ ਗਤੰ ੫॥੧॥
    Jaiḏev ā▫i▫o ṯas safutaʼn bẖav bẖūṯ sarab gaṯaʼn. ||5||1||
    Jai Dayv has openly come to Him; He is the salvation of all, in the past, present and future. ||5||1||


    It becomes quite clear why Guru Arjan Dev Ji included these 2 now !!
    I can also see how the rahao line becomes stronger since it mentions the eradication of 'dubidha' or duality, ie.. No separation between You and I.

    The 'vision' refers to the duality with moon-sun, left-right nostril, irhaa-pingla....etc...etc.

    So, if we say that the lord can only be attained by inhaling through what represents the Moon and exhaling through the Sun and reciting his name inbetween, then we are in effect creating a non-existent duality wthout having any 'Dhian' for the Guru.
    I think the number '16' is quoted since it is quite large (16 times in between breaths) and so the 'dhian' is all going to be focused on the counting !!
    The number of 16 should make you realise this compared to 2 or 3 which can be done quite easily without any counting.

    But if someone can amazingly keep their dhian on just waheguru whilst multi-tasking to all of this counting and holding your nostrils, then 'respect' to you and all the best !
     
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  10. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I don't want to misguide anyone or if there are new younger sikhs trying to learn.
    If you have the question 'Do sikhs do yoga' ??
    Then the answer is a simple 'YES'
    Sikhs don't hold their nostrils or cover their ears or rotate and make finger alignments,..NO.
    Sikhs do yoga on a thathi thavi(hot plate) they do yoga at the end of a saw, they only devote body's ang when they offer their head, they don't make devotions by wrapping their legs around their necks but they accept the shaheedi rope of a noose around their neck with a smile !

    This is the Yoga that sikh's do !

    Playing or doing pakhand with your ang is not devotion.
    Yes, doing simran and devoting all thoughts to waheguru whilst saying 'waheguru' with every breath is devotion.
    But the 'waheguru' comes first, then the breath.
    If the breath control is first and then incorporating 'waheguru' as it fits in is being done, then the true devotion is not there. As you are playing with your ang before devoting your tongue.
    Devote your tongue first and then breathe !!
     
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