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Sikhism Benti Chaupai - Keertan Format

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Taranjeet singh, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    <object height="480" width="640">


    <embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/NTvyTwHpLno?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="480" width="640"></object>

    http://youtu.be/NTvyTwHpLno
     
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    #1 Taranjeet singh, Feb 11, 2012
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  3. Luckysingh

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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    This is from the Charitar No. 404 in the Section of DG called Charitro Pakhiyan..Pages 1359-1388.
    It starts off with the fantastic descriptions and way out of htis world figures of horses and huge demons etc..etc etc..armies as huge as 9 figures of horses, elephants, men...such huge numbers of elephants etc jsut defy logistics becasue a single elephant eats 500kg of fodder DAILY and IF there is an army of say 2 million elephants..where does the fodder come from ?? Anyway thats NOT the main point...becasue each drop of blood spilled from demon springs into a million other demons..so how anyone cna ever win such a battle is beyond human imagination..Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought Battles WITHIN LIMIT..his Sons also died physical death from wounds..none blood dripped and made a million Ajit singhs etc spring up...Guru Ji rode physical horses, shot arrows etc...plausible battles and won them based on strategy and VALOUR..not supernatural powers magic etc...Gurus soldiers rode only HORSES..while the soldiers in thsi tall tale ride horses, elephnats, donkeys, mules..AND..wolves, cheetahs, lions, tigers,..even SCORPIONS....watch the movie called SCORPION KING..and you will notice its a recreation of this story allegedly penned by Guru Ji ??? Warriors riding RATS and old vultures into battle ???

    AND then wonder of wonders..the author also says that SHEIKHS, PATHANS, MUGHALS are also in Battle and being slaughtered by the Chandi kaal etc...??? Now what is this..what period is this..are Mughals and DEMONS with horns..all in the SAME PLOT ?? HARRY POTTER MOVIE looks more CREDIBLE !!! (199) IN 200 /201 the Pathan dead are evn named..nahar Khan, Bairam Khan, bahadur Khan, rustam Khan, balwand Khan, Hussein Khan, Hussan Khan, Muhammed Khan, Shamshan Khan, etc etc etc..???

    Then in the 202-241 ASDHUJ Kaal caused many PLAGUES..FEVERS..( the 13 plagues of the Bible...also happen here...GERM WARFARE ?? wow very advanced indeed....Viruses ?? etc being used by mahan kaal...241..Question: IF mahan kaal created htis GERM WARFARE to KILL DEMONS..why are these dieseases still around TODAY ??? are all those kids sick from small pox..fevers..etc DEMONS ?? Did Guru Gobind Singh ji write this SHEER NONSENSE ?? IS this Same "ASDHUJ" that GGS is aksing for Hamri karo haath de Rachha..Please protect ME ??? KILL MY ENEMIES ?? does the SIKH Akal purakh have enmies ?? did Guru ji have "enemies"????

    The whole CHARITAR is too long to write here (Fairy Tale of enormous proportions anyway)..BUT the....wondrous thing is the Benti Chaupaii which is EMBEDDED DEEP INSIDE this FAIRY TALE..has been surreptioulsy REMOVED and then RE-NUMBERED . Not only that..in the ORIGINAL DG there is no pat 10 added..BUT in the REMOVED VERSES, renumbered and added Pat 10 is clearly subterfuge.

    The Title in DG is Kabiobach benti chaupee. NO Patshahi 10 written here at all. ONLY IN GUTKAS....produced later...WHY ?? ...and this strts from 377...and continues till 410..402-404 are clearly addressed to JAGAT MATA which cannot be AKAL PURAKH by even the wildest imagination...Mata is DEVI Chandi etc..402.. 404 concludes by THANKING ASDHUJ DEVTA...and Gives the GUARANTEE that whoever does Paath of tHIS Kvaita will....??? IF BLIND will get EYESIGHT..if deaf will hear..if ???? the DUMB will SPEAK....anything more BIZARRE ?? this takes the Cake and we call it Guru Gobind Singh Kirt ?? Do the Blind the deaf the dumb get cured ?? are there none such l;eft ??

    Question: 400..JIN NAR Naam tuharo kaha...only MALE mentioned..woman is left out as its perfectly in tune with this MALE CENTRIC POEM--Charitars are all about women subterfuge..so why would a woman say NAAM ??

    READ the entire SORDID Tale here..fully explained in simple Punjabi..http://khalsanews.org/articles/2011/03Mar2011/Dasam%20Granth%20da%20Likhari%20Kaun%20-%20Jaswinder%20S%20Dubai.pdf
     
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    #3 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Feb 11, 2012
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  5. Ambarsaria

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    Thanks Gyani Jarnail Singh ji.

    Good poetry without Authenticity. If it is not Authentic Guru ji's writing, it would have been another way of creating a "Sikh Ramayan". Obviously the writers and conspirators or people doing it in ignorance would be the followers of the Ramayan.

    Sikh "Ram Lila" will be next!

    Just some philosophical thoughts (let us remember this is the sikh philosophy network) and not to offend! So don't anyone get their knickers in a knot!peacesign

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  6. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Blind can be one who doesn't see the Ek Jot in all. Deaf can be the one who doesn't listen and understand Gurbani. Goonga can be the one who doesn't sing Waheguru's praises!

    Same use of Nar has been seen here at Ang 220

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋਈ ਨਰੁ ਸੁਖੀਆ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ॥
    Says Nanak, that man is happy, who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord's Name.

    ਅਉਰ ਸਗਲ ਜਗੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਨਿਰਭੈ ਪਦੁ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੩॥੮॥
    All the rest of the world is enticed by Maya; they do not obtain the state of fearless dignity
     
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  7. BhagatSingh

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    That is the fun of it. Gyani ji, there is a graphic novel (with a Sikh character - army general) about such a demon. It's called "Virulents". Read it if you are interested. VIRULENTS — Virgin Comics - YouTube


    Blind will get enlightened, will see Ekoankar. Deaf will hear the Anhad Shabad. Goonga will speak the non-words of wisdom, Akath kahani.
    This is perhaps the most powerful metaphor for enlightenment ever put together. Bizarre? yes! :grinningsingh: It is sort of funny how accurateit is because there is nothing to see, hear and talk about hence why blind, deaf and mute can see, hear and talk about it. It is not something that causes visual or auditory perception. It is an inner-knowing.
     
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    #6 BhagatSingh, Feb 13, 2012
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Kanwaljit Singh Ji..
    I stand corrected on the Naar bit...Nar chahat kichh aur..aureh kee aureh bhee....Guru teg bahadur Ji..Nar stands for manukh menaing MAN - as wella s Male. The nar in Slok mah nauvan is for male person...who gave more than he wanted...ha ha.
    Thanks Ji.
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    But I dont buy that metaphor thingy..its funny hwo when a metaphor is rightly used as i Kabir Ji.s ganga ki lehrehn mehn tootee zanjeer...its pictorially shown as aman in chains drowning in the real waters of ganga and miracolously breaking free...or Farid Ji shown with skeleton body with real crows hanging about his head..or a piece of real wood as kaath ki roti..etc...then the metaphor is criticised and its said that the chains are real..ganga devi is real..etc..but when a poet really gaurantees the blind cna see..we say its metaphor...the Late maskeen ji didnt take the "Listen akhnad paath and get cured of cancer" tale of Bhardwwaj METAPHORICALLY..it was popularised as a GENUINE MEDICAL BREAKTHROUGH...the comatose bhrdwaj actually got up and walked away..only to DIE a MONTH Later in march 2007. This story was published in the Sikh reveiw of MAY 2007 WITHOUT the disclaimer that the "hero" had already DIED 2 months PRIOR to publication...Listening to Gurbani DID NOT Cure his cnacer..and He NEVER CLAIMED that Gurbani actually CURED his INNER MANN or opene dhis INNER EYES..or that he "HEARD" anhad sounds...NO Jios he claimed his BODY was CURED...which turned out to be a LIE as this Poet is.
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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  11. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    What is Benti Chaupai?

    Benti Chaupai or Chaupai sahib is a prayer or Bani composed by tenth Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. This bani is present in Charitar 404 of Dasam Granth in Bani Ath Pakhyan Chairtar Likhyatey. This Bani is one of the five Banis recited by the initiated Sikh every morning. It is also a part of evening prayer of the Sikhs called Rehras sahib. The Benti Chaupee can be read at any time during the day to provide protection, positive focus and energy.

    It is short composition which usually takes less than about 5 minutes to recite at a slow pace; it is written in simple Punjabi language and can be easily understood by most speakers of this language.
    Chaupai is the short name for the Sikh prayer or Gurbani whose full name is Kabiobach Bainti Chaupai. This composition is part of the second most important Sikh Holy Book called the Dasam Granth. The Bani comes after the section called Charitropakhyan. Many "charitars" (tricks; deceptions) of the world are shown in Charitropakhyan. Charitars highlight negative energies that can be found on earth. After composing Charitars, the tenth master composed the section that includes this particular bani. It is an Ardas or 'request' or 'sincere plea' to God for protection.
    The sub-sections of this composition are as follows:

    1. Kabiyo Bach Benti Chaupai
    2. Arril and Chaupai (which follows Benti Chaupai as written in the Sri Dasam Granth. These short stanzas act as a conclusion to this Bani before the Zafarnama)
    3. Savaiye and Dohra (compiled from an earlier section of Sri Dasam Granth)
    Link-1
    http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Chaupai_sahib:_Translation_and_Transliteration


    I am giving below another view point about Chaupai Sahib. Given below are two relevant links; the first explains the means and methods of interpretation when there is confusion

    Quote ....extracts only

    In Guru Gobind Singh's innovative poetic style, we see Waheguru addressed by different names that are inspired by weapons, especially the sword: "Namaskar Sri Kharag ko," or "Sri Asdhuj ji kariyo rachha," or "Sahib sri sabh ko sirnayak."

    The second stanza of Bhagauti ki Vaar makes it abundantly clear that the term 'Bhagauti' is being used at once for Waheguru, the Creator/ Doer as well as the sword, signifying spiritual knowledge.

    The sword is an ancient and widely used symbol to represent the totality of Waheguru's powers. In Bhagauti ki Vaar, the term used is "khanda," which is a double edged sword. The dual edge is very telling since it represents both the creative and destructive powers of the Creator who is actively engaged in the world of its creation, not standing idly by. It also represents transcendence on the one side and its manifestation in the world of time and space.

    Above all, the double edged sword as a metaphor for Waheguru signifies justice.

    In interpreting the Indian legend of Durga for Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh is also conveying the inner essence of the story: Durga takes on and kills the demons. The demons, it turns out, represent our own wild inner nature that needs to be creatively shaped.

    Link-2
    http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?cat=29&id=1944


    Unquote


    Quote Again….extracts only........


    18th Century Manuscript of the Chaopai​

    Some modern day Sikhs refute the Sri Dasam Granth for its many references to Hindu mythology. This is surprising because the Siri Guru Granth Sahib has many references of the same. So why was it cut after the 25th pauri instead of any other place? It could be because the 26th pauri references 'Jag Mata' (Mother of the World) which could be confused as Hindu goddess worship. Whereas, Guru Ji is using the Mother analogy as one of the many aspects of God. At the end of japji Sahib, Guruji refers to 'Mata Dharat' - Mother of the World. In this instance the Guru has decided to represent God through the feminine creative aspect.

    It is said that the end and beginning have the most power in any given composition. The last 2 pauris of Chaupai Sahib contain a lot of power. The first 25 pauris are asking God's blessings, and the last 2 are very affirmative of owning the blessings. In the last line Guru Gobind Singh gives his guarantee to the reader:

    [Man ba(n)chhat phal pavai soee. Dukh na tisai biaapat koee. (27)
    He will obtain the fruit desired by the mind (who will read or listen to this book) and no suffering will occur to him. (27)]

    Let us take the Guru's blessing by keeping the seal of the last 2 pauris and experience the power that it gives.

    Link-3
    http://www.chaupaisahib.com/
    Unquote

    I do not know the nature of controversy nor would like to get involved in this. I do paath of 'Chaupai sahib' and that is all I know.With utmost regards I submit that when the opinions differ, it is best to wait till the controversy is resolved.

    Warm Regards Gyani sir ji,

    All errors and mistakes are mine and Bhul chuk mauf.....I had posted the keertan format as it sounded very nice to me;i was not aware that there are some unresolved issues. I hope there is no issue with 'Jaap sahib' .

    waheguru mehr kare
     
    #10 Taranjeet singh, Feb 13, 2012
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The title.."KABIO BACH...the POET Says....actually says it all...the Pat 10 is a later spurious ADDITION something which cannot and Never happened in the case of SGGS.
    The NANAKS were NEVER SHY of putting down their NAME/SIGNATURE to what they wrote..or hide behind fake / spurious/common terms such as "poet"...
     
  13. Kanwaljit Singh

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    How can 3 unknown Baanis be added to the Khande Di Pahul? How can Nihangs who left for the jungles to save Sikhi from Mughals/Britishers not be aware of truth about the authors? Why did Singh Sabha movement didn't remove this anomaly when they brought so many reforms? Questioning the authenticity of 'Dasam' Baani raises more questions than answers. And personally I cannot shift paradigm until all are answered.
     
  14. BhagatSingh

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    Gyani ji,
    It is always difficult to decide what is a metaphor and what is not. I find both metaphors and literal open the way for what is actually there, the Truth. I think both should be considered for any such writing. If one of them does not make sense it should be ignored, if both do not make sense, one should ask around. If both still do not make sense then that part of the writing or if a significant number of these cases exist, then the whole writing, should be ignored.

    Often times, I find myself with crystal clear understanding but without anything I can conceptualize or verbalize. The writing whether it actually makes sense or not, somehow triggered an understanding and makes sense to me without me knowing why. Have you ever had this experience?

    Kanwaljit Singh ji,
    The answer to all of those questions is the Brahmin conspiracy theory. Agents who want to put in Hindu elements in Sikhism so they can destroy it. *insert cheesy evil laughter* :roll:

    Ya it's lame but people believe this theory anyway.
     
  15. Kanwaljit Singh

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    No it doesn't answer anything... if Singh Sabha and Nihangs ignore the authenticity of Dasam Granth, then we ourselves are an anomaly in a brahminized Sikhism.
     
  16. Ambarsaria

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    Bhagat Singh veer ji I believe you squint while reading certain aspects of conspiracy theories or choose to ignore realities. Of course there can be no generalizations but Sikh Gurus shut down Brahmin Shops and this fact is not forgotten on that segment of India. It is the undercurrent greatest destructive force under "Peace and Love" banner that is a challenge for Sikhism going forward. Time to squint in reading the following mundahugfrom Kanwaljit Singh ji's book reference,
    I believe you must have it or read it as I remember one post where your description of Atma and stuff appears to be verbatim from an example in this book.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  17. BhagatSingh

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    Ambarsaria ji,
    That is a loaded reply. Let me try my best here.
    This is simply false. This belief in the opposition between Brahmins and Sikh Gurus is relatively modern. My guess is it is post-British as British published a lot of propaganda to weaken India's religious intellectual structure in order to justify British presence (White Man's burden) and to convert people to Christianity as Jesuit activity increased. In fact, there is no such opposition. Kashmiri Pandits came to one of their own allies when they were in trouble. And Guru Tegh Bahadur ji and three Brahmins went to their aid. Guru Gobind Singh ji was schooled by a Brahmin, Kirpa Ram Dutt (the guy who lead the Kashmiri Pandits).

    Some people have issues with with Gandhi's words here (they might think it destroys Sikhism), while others don't. I personally do not care because it does not really matter whether it is part of a larger entity or a smaller entity of it's own. I can see and understand the arguments for both and what leads to the two conclusions. My stance is to simply to keep an open mind. My objective is to benefit the panth whichever way it rolls.

    It certainly would be helpful if these quotes were in some context of an argument so we could see what he was saying and where he was coming from.

    Radhakrishnan is not alone in this. I think most of the older Sikh generation believe this that Sikhs Gurus are reiterating what Saints have said in the past (when you consider Kabir ji and his Guru Ramanand ji this becomes obvious). Also read Khushwant Singh's history of the Sikhs. He basically says the same thing.

    Are any of the Sikh Gurus making a claim that they are teaching a new doctrine? I don't think they are, unless you can show me otherwise. They are teaching dharam, which is as old as mankind (womankind as well) itself.

    Now if you want to know the belief systems prior to Guru Nanak's arrival. You need only look at Bhagat Kabir. He was a Vaishnav Hindu saint. Vaishnav meaning, he worshipped one God through incarnations of Vishnu. Look into his views as they are quite a good representation of Vaishnav views. He is quoted heavily in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    About the book posted by Kanwaljit Singh ji. I have not had the time to read it yet but I want to get to it soon. What I said about Atma can be found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Jaap Sahib, etc. I also have made modest efforts into it myself, and so can attest with confidence that what is said is true.

    Thoughts?
     
    #16 BhagatSingh, Feb 14, 2012
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  18. Ambarsaria

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    Veer Bhagat Singh ji I have no further interest in your theories about proof not needed to debase Sikhism (as it is not meant to be so by any thing that is so flagged) and proof needed for everything else. We are all different so I leave it at that. You are too young to have experienced the seeds of what will bear Sikhism destructive fruits, specially in India and it has been so for the past few decades. People have seen nothing yet. The 1984 would look like child's play.

    May be your love will win the day over all non-Sikhs bent on destroying Sikhism. I don't see how! But weirder things have happened before.

    When you read the book hopefully you will learn something because when I was reading the book it was affirmations and perhaps for you it will be revelations. How you treat the revelations is your choice, you are a bright Sikhism following young man.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  19. BhagatSingh

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    No one is trying to debase Sikhism, Ambarsaria ji. It it your thinking that makes it so. Proof is Bhagat kabir ji .If you have nothing to say to that. then good luck with your theories.

    Hmm 1984 has little to do with this. In fact, those who propagated views like MK Gandhi, namely RSS, were helping Sikhs out during the pogroms. Certainly, these "destructive elements" are not related to 1984.
     
    #18 BhagatSingh, Feb 14, 2012
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  20. Taranjeet singh

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    He not only believed but it was proved also subsequently. Indian constitution does not recognize sikhi as a separate religion;it is hinduism and its part. Even as on date, constitutionally, all sikhs are Hindus. Mr. Jinnah could negotiate with Britishers and carved out a separate State,Pakistan, yet sikhs In india could not find their rightful place.

    Sikhs were present in the Constituent Assembly meetings when constitution was being drafted; yet they could not manage sikh's identity.

    Some sikhs are still doing a great service to the cause. 'Sikhs are keshdhari Hindus'...Khushwant Singh. Why blame only M.K.Gandhi/Nehru/ Dayananad Saraswati who are not present and may be are lost in oblivion.?
    Modern version of MK Gandhi is available in sikhs themselves.

    It is time that we get united and forget our in-house problems and focus on the main-issue. Lot of damage has been done to sikhi due to the internal squabbles and petty politics; bigger questions are left unresolved. What has SGPC contributed in this regard.?

    Bigger question would be "What have I done in this regard?" My contribution is a big Zero.

    How about yours.? What do you think?

    Eminent persons like IJ Singh and Gyani ji and others ,who are acquainted with all aspects of sikhi, should come forward and do some service to entire kaum. There may be some other intellectuals who may like to join the force. We can always resolve the issues like Dasam Granth with passage of time. But this problem/issue can not be deferred for an indefinite period.

    What answer would we give to Guru Sahibs tomorrow or a day after?
     
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    #19 Taranjeet singh, Feb 14, 2012
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