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Bad Translations And Interpretations-how Do They Affect Us?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    <scratching head> so how many Gurus does that make
     
  2. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Harry vir/brother, you need to give our brother/sister chazSingh a break. If chazSingh ji wants to call the creator, the truth that describes the creator as Guru, I don't have much qualms per se. He/she is madly in love with SGGS and all those who contributed to it; as well as the thing/light/jyot that drove them to such endeavor. There is nothing wrong with that. It may only invoke a different mode of understanding the SGGS.

    While I should not generalize there is a phrase that perhaps is appropriate. It goes "Love makes you blind!". As long as one understand a possible limitation that we impose through love and trade it against the benefits of love, one can appropriately handle, adjust and all can work good. Hope it is not cryptic ;).

    Sat Sri Akal.

    PS: Original ji has done great posts in this thread and the thread is wonderful. Thank you for starting this thread.
     
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  3. chazSingh

    chazSingh Germany
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    paarabreham paramaesar sathigur ham baarik thumh pithaa kirapaal ||1|| rehaao ||
    O Supreme Lord God, Transcendent Lord, O True Guru, I am Your child, and You are my Merciful Father. ||1||Pause||

    mohi niragun gun naahee koee pahuch n saako thumharee ghaal ||

    I am worthless; I have no virtues at all. I cannot understand Your actions.

    thumaree gath mith thum hee jaanahu jeeo pi(n)dd sabh thumaro maal ||1||

    You alone know Your state and extent. My soul, body and property are all Yours. ||1||

    a(n)tharajaamee purakh suaamee anabolath hee jaanahu haal ||

    You are the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts, the Primal Lord and Master; You know even what is unspoken.

    than man seethal hoe hamaaro naanak prabh jeeo nadhar nihaal ||2||5||121||

    My body and mind are cooled and soothed, O Nanak, by God's Glance of Grace. ||2||5||121||
     
  4. chazSingh

    chazSingh Germany
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    love is indeed blind my good friend :)

    but when the light shines in the courtyard of the mind...one starts to see once again...one can only but utter (mentally) ... Waheguru.... Wondrous Guru...oh my wondrous Guru

    chaadhanaa chaadhan aaa(n)gan prabh jeeo a(n)thar chaadhanaa ||1||

    Moonlight, moonlight - in the courtyard of the mind, let the moonlight of God shine down. ||1||

    aaraadhhanaa araadhhan neekaa har har naam araadhhanaa ||2|| Meditation, meditation - sublime is meditation on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||2||

    hiaaganaa thiaagan neekaa kaam krodhh lobh thiaaganaa ||3||

    Renunciation, renunciation - noble is the renunciation of sexual desire, anger and greed. ||3||

    maaganaa maagan neekaa har jas gur thae maaganaa ||4||

    Begging, begging - it is noble to beg for the Lord's Praise from the Guru. ||4||

    jaaganaa jaagan neekaa har keerathan mehi jaaganaa ||5||

    Vigils, vigils - sublime is the vigil spent singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises. ||5||

    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3731



    laaganaa laagan neekaa gur charanee man laaganaa ||6||

    Attachment, attachment - sublime is the attachment of the mind to the Guru's Feet. ||6||

    eih bidhh thisehi paraapathae jaa kai masathak bhaaganaa ||7||

    He alone is blessed with this way of life, upon whose forehead such destiny is recorded. ||7||

    kahu naanak this sabh kishh neekaa jo prabh kee saranaaganaa ||8||1||4||

    Says Nanak, everything is sublime and noble, for one who enters the Sanctuary of God. ||8||1||4||
     
  5. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Chaz Ji, page numbers please. :)
     
  6. Original

    Original
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    Ambarsaria Ji,

    Much obliged for your compliments, and if I may a add a word or two about the instigator Harry Haller, done everyone a great service, particularly, Sikhi. He is like a mid-wife who helps with the delivery of the new born and likewise, Harry, helps with the truth in all to come out and that in itself is what Baba Nanak's Sikhi is all about - giving birth to the true insight from within - yes, thank you H.

    As a Cyber Sikh Community [CSC] interacting on a range of topics, it is on our part an obligation to be as accurate, as scholarly, and as disciplined as possible. The authenticity of the scriptures must be preserved and not sidetracked simply because we have evolved and miagrated to richer and more fertile environments. Impact of western industrialised societies where everything is funcky must be calculated on the balance of the spiritual and the physical in conjunction with one's belief n value. It is fundamentally important to preserve this kind of historical perspective for the continuity and the progress of Sikh Society as a whole.

    Human evolution was a linear progression from small- brained tree climbers to bipedal big brained modern humans. Should we disregard the candle which helped us find the light bulb ? No ! Similarly, we mustn't forget how simple n humble our beginnings were as the ordinary folks moving out of Africa at the crack of human exodus. Our thought, culture, ideas, science n technology, art, social skills, system of belief and the rest was all primitive compared to those of the western societies, stop weighing our ancestors in the scales of the westernised civilisations for the comparison is inequal. We were simply less developed as social organisms.

    Know who you are and be proud for there is "now" a poverty amongst the affluent and the well-to-do western civil socities, the poverty of the spirit. The search for the "who am I" is on, fortunately for us, children of Baba Nanak - we're blessed, let us embrace the rest of humanity and show by "example" how to live a life of a Sikh and bring about universal consonance.

    Once again, thank you !

    Pls make an allowance for the content and the delivery of the text for it is not directed at any one in particular but on the whole a reflection of the natives who have brought us forth this far albeit in different parts of the world.
     
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  7. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    What I meant was that Guru sahib wanted to bring true baani of different cult/deras under one umbrella. Though Bhagat Ravidas, Kabir Jee and Sheikh Farid, Peepa Jee etc were enlightened and had written granth but guru sahib only selected what was in par with gurbani. Meera's love like chaz jee was not approved thus he didn't gave any credence to her writing in SGGS. In order to avoid, ''ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਮੀਆ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਜੀਆਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਅਵਰ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥੬॥ he guided us not to fall into the hands of different deras and glorify them individually but Sabd Guru. Gurbani is logical and is for meaningful purpose. What I am noticing there are followers of Ravidassi cult and they prefer to glorify his whole baani.
     
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    #107 japjisahib04, Aug 18, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  8. chazSingh

    chazSingh Germany
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    the link is in the shabad...albeit not where i intended to cut and paste :)
     
  9. chazSingh

    chazSingh Germany
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    Meera's love like chaz jee was not approved?? <scratching head...or turban>
     
  10. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    It is at page 828.12
     
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  11. Original

    Original
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    ......gurbani has different layers of construction, conveyance, direct n indirect sources, form, language manipulation, ideological exploitation, exploration, articulation and a host of other agencies operating at various levels, yet, the theme is one and the same as other faiths and ideologies - God. What sets a Sikh apart from the rest of creation is "how" he/she lives. There is pattern, regularity, continuity, conformity, gracefulness and symmetry, which gives it an atheistic look called beauty.

    Baba Nanak collected literature of renowned spiritual saints because the substance was the one and the same. Sikhs have been bestowed [bar Japjisahib Ji, joke] with a good sense of discrimination between right n wrong [vivek daan] and not between interfaith. Meera's love for the lord was eternal just as Heer's was for Ranjha. Gur ghar's drive n direction were remedial and celebratory in nature because the meaning and purpose of life laid elsewhere. Devotional side however, was in par with Heer Ranjha n Meera Krishna genre.
     
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  12. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur India
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    ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ

    Baṇī gurū gurū hai baṇī vicẖ baṇī amriṯ sāre.

    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.


    ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੫॥

    Gur baṇī kahai sevak jan mānai parṯakẖ gurū nisṯāre. ||5||

    If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||


    ਸਭੁ ਹੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਹੈ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਖਾਵਾਰੇ

    Sabẖ hai barahm barahm hai pasri▫ā man bīji▫ā kẖāvāre.

    All is God, and God is the whole expanse; man eats what he has planted.


    Rest here:
    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=982
     
  13. Ishna

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    Did I miss the context for the above quote, Harkiran Ji? Sorry! It just seems a bit random.
     
  14. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur India
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    It was in reference to what Chaz Ji was saying... how Bani is the Guru and Guru is God. (Bottom of previous page I think).
     
  15. hpsp

    hpsp
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    What exactly is meant by "realize God..." Kindly illumine..
     
  16. hpsp

    hpsp
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    Translations of metaphors has always been a difficult task. It depends upon the individual's perceptions. But overall these translations, howsoever, lacunic, have brought us closer to gurbani. After all all the translations by single author/translator cannot be incorrect. There may be patches where these differ from the message conveyed. I am very thankful for the efforts made by all the translators esp. Sant Singh Khalsa and Man Mohan Singh.The efforts of others are equally praiseworthy.
     
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  17. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    To be imbibe divine virtues and live accordingly is 'realize God'
     
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