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Bad things -> Good People

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by versus, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. versus

    versus
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    Hi everyone,

    Why do bad things happen to good people? why do bad things happen at all? Is God trying to teach us something? If he is, why is it so hard? Pain, and sadness are the worst feelings in the world, why are people hungry, why are people homeless, why do people die? Why does God make us experience such grief and sadness? I pray everynight for all the sadness to go away and for me to be able to be happy. But, as much as I pray, I'm still finding it hard to find strength. Am I doing something wrong? I just want God to help me.


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  3. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    Who is Good and Who is bad is your perception. Whatever is happening is God Will. Actually not quite, because that is a mis-conception. It is the will of Nature. We live in the will of Nature. This Earth is called a Karam Bhoomi. This is where our fate is decided based on our past Karmas. The truth is that nothing is good and nothing is bad. Stay in the “Bhanna” and accept what comes your way without screaming.




    Good things relate to good Karmas and Bad things to bad Karmas. Good and bad is a balance of nature. At the end of the day, Nature has to keep a balance. One thing to bear in mind is that nature plays a fair game. It never denies your dues. It may delay your dues for later date but eventually you will get it.



    Here you have hit it on the nail. We see our experiences as good and bad but if you look at it closely you do not learn much from a good experience but you learn a great deal more from a bad experience. What we regard as a bad experience, it is natures way to prepare you for a particular task. Consider that as your training.



    When you are under training you have to be tested to the limit. This is what prepares you for the task. The harder the training the better the chances of survival.




    Pain and sadness is a concept of mind. If you look at yourself objectively then it is the body that is suffering pain and sadness you are not there. Sikhism teaches you to be objective if you learn the lessons well.

    People are hungry and homeless because some of us are very very greedy. We have a habbit of hoarding things. We need one house to live in but we have more than one. We would rather throw food in the bin that we cannot eat rather the give it to some one else. Why cook so much in the first place. We are selfish and do not look out for our fellow beings. What people fail to realise is that nature can turn the tables around anytime. So watch out. Only one Hurricane or Flood can do the Job!

    In the period of Kalyug, our life span is very small compared to our Yugas. It is a blessing in disguise. Imagine if ones life span was long, how much longer you may have to suffer. Besides the body fabric wears out like our clothes. We change out of our worn out clothes into new ones - such is death and new life follows again.



    Just imagine you were free from grief and sadness. What ever you want you get instantly – life will become intolerable. These experiences actually help to pass time on this earth. You get so engrossed in resolving your issues that you do not ever notice when your point of exit is at your door step.

    .


    Problems do not go away if you close your eyes. Who are you praying to. If it is God, then who are you?. You are in reality praying to yourself. Too much praying makes a person weak and dependable. Face the challenges of life head on.

    No, you are not doing anything wrong. We live in communities where we tend to copy each others response. For those who take their first step onto Sikhism begin to get their strength back. Trust in the teachings of our Gurus. Believe in the teachings of our Gurus, Feel the teachings of our Gurus. As you progress into Spirituality and Meditation, you will become more and more confident. You may remember the saying “God helps those Who help themselves”. You have to personally make an effort. No one has the time for spoonfeeding.

    Gathering Knowledge and information is not going to make life free from problems. Practical action is required. So get on with it.
     
  4. vaapaaraa

    vaapaaraa
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    Try to read do more Gurbani path, everyday.
    atleast spend 2 and half hrs everyday.
     
  5. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    naam jap,

    Do you really believe that reading Gurbani for 2 1/2 hrs is going to transform versus and get rid of his problems ?

    One usually gives this answer when you do not know what to say, so to shut him up. Burry him under something and the problem will go away. Reading Gurbani in that frame of mind will not and cannot solve anything. The short term solution is advice and assurance and then encouragement to read Gurbani can follow.
     
  6. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    WJKK WJKF

    I actually agree with both with Naam Jap and Hai Bhi Sach.

    Naam Jap: Yes, doing Nit-Nem every day I have found such bliss, that I cannot put in words.

    Hai Bhi Sach: I agree that Versus needs to get some "practical" help, but do not underestimate the strength of Bani. We all have bad days and good days, but so many times, I have found myself being able todeal with issues better when I have done Nitnem. It's not to say do NitNem and all your problems will vanish, but will give them help and courage to face up to the problems.


    REHRAS - Slok Mahalla 1:
    Dukh daaroo sukh rog bheya, Ja sukh taam na hoee.
    Tu Karta karna mai naahi, ja hao kari na hoee.
    Balehaari kudrat vesseya
    Tera a'nt na jaaee lakeya. 1 (Rahau)

    Sufferings become the remedy, comforts the illness. In pleasure, one remembers not the Lord.
    You are the doer O'Lord, I am nothing. Even though I many venture, nothing happens.
    I am a sacrifice to the phenomenon of your nature.
    Your limits are unfathomable.


    Bhul chuk maaf. Please correct me if I am wrong on my translations....Still learning.
     
    #5 MKAUR1981, Jan 24, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  7. vaapaaraa

    vaapaaraa
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    Im not trying to shut him down, I cared about his problems thats why I gave him the true advice, If one reads gurbani, with unshakeable faith, Not only his problems will vanish, but he will be given abundance.


    Though My goal is not to seek that abundance, whether I get suffereing or pain it does not matter to me. This body, soul, and mind are all belong to God, who ami to use it for the purposes of my own ego? ego is an illusion. the one who created me, also takes care of me. Why I read gurbani is to please God, this is why we are born to sing his praises, we are given tongue to sing his praises, ears to hear, eyes to see his form.

    He himself knows, he himself gives.

    One has to have unshakeable faith while reading bani, this again will come through Gurus Grace.

    should stop undestimating the power of reading Gurbani, It is the support of billions of universes, from ant, to galaxies and nebulaes, then why can't your problems vanish if you read Gurbani?

    You can experiment for yourself.
     
  8. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    MKAUR1981 and naam jap ji,

    You are trying to convert the converted. You are both mis-understanding me.

    My point was that "versus" needs some "practical" help first. When a person is in confusion he wants immediate help. Reading Bani without understanding is not going to give you immediate help and if it does it will take a very very long time. He has some burning questions in his mind. This load has to be eased first before you give him a long term solution. - This is my understanding. So Bibioo "Cool Down". I am on your side.

    You do not really mean that naam jap ji? Please review your statement.

    KAUR1981 ji,

    I am sorry I do not quite agree with your meanings of this Salok. I think it is out of context with our discussion and carries a different message. In my infinite foolishness and manmat, I would interpret this salok as follows:

    REHRAS - Slok Mahalla 1:
    Dukh daaroo sukh rog bheya, Ja sukh taam na hoee.
    Tu Karta karna mai naahi, ja hao kari na hoee.
    Balehaari kudrat vesseya
    Tera a'nt na jaaee lakeya. 1 (Rahau)



    Suffering is the remedy, Comfort is an illness. Whilst in comfort one does not realise it.

    You are the doer O'Lord, I am incapable of doing anything. Even if I so desired, I can achieve nothing.


    I am overwhelmed by the phenomenon of your nature. (Kudrat)
    Your limits are unfathomable.


    I see this Salokh as a Praise of the phenomenon of Nature. It is put there because we are all subject to the natures will. We are praising the Nature first (a form of seeking permission) before we attempt to remember God.

    Guru ji is praising the complexity of nature.

    Comfort is an illness this goes against the grain of human thinking.
    Suffering is the remedy - this again goes beyond our conception.
    Then Guru ji says - Whilst in comfort one does not realise it.

    What Guru ji is trying to show us here is how nature settles the scores with us humans.

    When we are comfortable surroundings-doing well-have an upper hand-we make decisions egoistically i.e. wrong decisions - wrong judgements. How does nature settle this account with us, how do we pay for our wrongful actions, how does nature punish us for it. It gives us suffering in return. Because our decision was unjust and we caused suffering to the person we judged. We made and we make judgements without realising the consequences of our actions.

    You are the doer O'Lord, I am nothing in front of you. Even if I dare try it-or contemplate it, I cannot succeed. We in our ego think we are the masters that is why we get into trouble. But the fact is that we are totally incapable of doing anything. We are used as puppets to carry out the dirty task of nature. Nature puts us in the position and makes us do these wrong actions. But the problem is that in our infinite foolishness we accept the doing. Our “I”, our Ego makes us take the blame and that becomes part of our Karam and we get punished for it. As long as we remain ignorant of what is happening around it, we will have to suffer.

    The word “Balehaari “ here does not mean sacrifice. You may recall that some times our elders in Punjab say “ OYE MAIN TERE SADKEY JAVAN” = “MAIN TERE BALEHAREY JAWAN” The word is used to express joy- surprise - the amazement is directed at the phenomenon of your nature.


    Guru ji says “O’ Lord” Your limits are unfathomable. I cannot ever define you or your actions. You are beyond my thinking. I Salute you.


    I too stand to be corrected.
     
  9. vaapaaraa

    vaapaaraa
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    It is my conscious understanding, In the end everyone has to realize that there is no one else other then the one and only one.
    We have no power over God, What God wants to give, God will give, and what we ask God in ardaas, is God himself inspiring us, and he himself wants to give that to us. There is no me anywhere. All is within hukam

    God is eternity, created all, also nourishes them, gives them understanding, everyone is in their own stage of understanding.

    also, ardaas is important but one should realize that it is God praying through you, and he himself inspires you to do ardaas, and he himself does the ardaas. There is one prayer, in Guru Granth Sahib ji, "Whatever pleases you is the only good done, this is Nanak's prayer"

    If you think about it for sometime, this hands, this eyes, this body, who created these? this mind who created this, this soul , who it is , and who does it belong to? What gifts are we enjoying? do these mean anything, everyone has to leave, this gift of human life is given to please God, what he wishes so it will happen.

    Do not make ardaas in ego, It is wish of God, whatever he will bestow, he will bestow.

    this shalok is true, it carries the message suffereing is the antidote for the disease of happiness, and where there is comforts of the mind, there is no place for God in that mind.

    this message for versus, as he is going through suffering.

    I learnt many lessons in suffering. It is a gift of God. Pain it does, but it comes and goes, and happiness also comes and goes.

    Avoid happiness, and you will not suffer in pain, make every effort you can to please God, speak sweet words to others, God is in them, help others, give daswand, this money is not yours, it came from God, it is God's.

    Everyone practices simran, to reach some stage, or to acheive some goal or bliss, but if your not nice, kind, to others, in whom God is present, then what is the use of your simran. It becomes for your own selfish ends, this is why Guru ji introduced seva, whose sole meaning, never bring your ego in the work your doing, do it for God, give the fruit to God, and think of God as doing it.

    It is best to do simran for what it is really meant, sing praises of God.
     
  10. MKAUR1981

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    Sorry. As I said I am still learning and I've got a few books that I read from which contain the English translations, and that was my interpretation of the Bani. So if I am wrong in my interpretations, I do apologise sincerely.

    Hey, I'm cool.:cool:
     
  11. gurus_princess

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    I have a calendar on my desk which has a unique quote on it for every day of the year. Today it read...

    'Every disappointment in life can be a steppingstone to greater things'.

    Anyway, only Waheguru knows the real answer. ;)
     
  12. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    naam jap ji,

    If God is everything, then we must be Gods too. If so, then Who are you doing ardaas to? Are we not doubting ourselves here ?

    Bibi naam jap ji "Gallein Yog na hoye". We can collect as much information as we like. That alone does not bring us closer to God. Are you a student (Sikh) seeking advice or are you giving us advice. The concept of God is not to the understanding of everyone. Ask ten people to define got and they will at least have ten very convincing answers. To each of them that is a reality.
    But are they right ?

    This is probably why sikhs are told to take the route of "Prem" and accept "Bhanna". Jin prem kio tin hi prabh payo. Your id is you answer and solution.

    You have done a very cheap interpretation.
    What guru ji is telling us that there is no way of telling, how you operate. I have tried to tell(in his Bani) and have been unsuccessful. "Your limits are unfathomable".
    The writer of the Bani himself is accepting defeat. How can we who are still learning to climb up the ladder in the Guru steps be so SURE of the path. I am sure we even do not know how to do SIMRAN either. Every panth thinks they know best. Do you think AKJ method of Orgasmic Simran will lead anyone anywhere. When they come out of simran they sweating like any thing. They regard the likes of you and me as if we are Aliens from another Planet................... I will dwell no more. They are exercising their freewill. Good Luck to them.

    We only come to know the true path with Gods blessing. The Guru appears in your life and disappears by giving you the "GUR". After that Guru in not important until the Seed of Naam (GUR) is fully grown and the fruit is bowing down in "NIMRITA". The Guru has the final decision. "Jan rah paya jane, Jan wah paya Jane". All else is "HOT AIR".

    Guru Bhalla Kare.
     
  13. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    gurus princess,

    A very good quote.

    But one should not start taking pleasure in it otherwise life will itself become a big disappointment. You are a very young Sikh. Do not make bland statements. Observe and grow to become a beautiful Swan. Gurus Swan. To much arguing gives rise to Ego and we do not even know how much we have changed until it is too late. Life is indeed a stepping stone. We cannot be wise if we keep making the same mistake over and over. This is why we keep rotating in life and death cycles. Each time we are given a chance to start fresh and each time we make similar mistakes.

    Sincere apollogies for hurting your feels (If you feel like that)
     
  14. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    MKAUR1981,

    The translation was my poor attempt to translate what Guru Nanak Dev ji may be trying to say. I could just as well be wrong. There are much higher authorities that know much more. And as I said "I stand to be corrected"

    Please be kind to gurus princess.

    I think you are cool too.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
     
  15. gurus_princess

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    Hey, I only read the calendar and think about it and that's it. It was given to me as a gift from my manager because of my "expertise on the register" (as she wrote on the note inside). :}{}{}:

    I want to become a swan of Guru. :rolleyes:

    How did you hurt my feelings?

    I'm learning from everyone, including you.

    I'm an open book and ready to accept right from wrong. :thumbup:
     
  16. gurus_princess

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    What did she do that wasn't kind to me? :confused:
     
  17. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    gurus princess

    It appears that I may have mis-interpreted you. But I am very pleased to note that you have the right for a young sikh. You will go a long way.

    God bless you
     
  18. gurus_princess

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    Thank you :)
     
  19. ballym

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    Wihout these shocks, we would never learn.
    If we feel that walking would help my enjoyment, I start making efforts when I am 10 months old. Shock of falling down gives me focus to make more efforts.
    A shock of hunger because my mom did not understand my cries gave me direction to make efforts to speak out clear words.
    My cries for Gulaab Jamun were misunderstood for Milk cries.... to bad. I should do something about it.

    Even I was surprised when a white colleague said these words.... "this problem is an opportunity". I did not agree to it for a LONG time.... but now I do.
    Rich person's kids get spoiled easily because the shock learning is absent. If he/she learns some other way then it is ok, otherwise a spoiled kid is born!
    That is why a direction is must for our kids. there is an active mind which needs to be filled. It is a difficult task.
     
  20. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    I have some ready made material taken from net. Hope this will clarify few things.

    Waheguru has given us intellect and physical competence to act according to certain basic principles of life. We are to use them and not sit like stones. When we act we have many ideas before us and many kinds of forces acting on us. Greed, anger, ego, love, sympathy, desire for service, etc. direct our actions toward others. Teaching and preaching are required to help a person make the right decisions. Virtues lead us to peace and vices lead us to trouble. Our happiness or sorrow depends upon the feelings under which we act. It is not justified to blame Waheguru for our failures or evil acts. To free ourselves of the guilt of doing antisocial or illegal acts, we tell ourselves that everything is in the hands of Waheguru; a human can do nothing. This is trying to "act smart." Actually, by this we only fool ourselves.

    There is a classic example of how this principle, "

    I do not do anything; everything is done by Waheguru" works and how its misuse is stopped.

    A second-time thief was sentenced by the judge for one year in jail. On hearing the sentence the thief addressed the judge, "Sir, do you believe in Waheguru, the Almighty Judge and that He does everything?"

    Judge: Yes, I do.

    Thief: Waheguru made me commit this theft according to His Will. Therefore, it is wrong for you to send me to jail.

    Judge: You are sentenced for two years. Do not blame me for increasing your sentence. You know that I can not do anything; everything is done by Waheguru.

    The thief learned the lesson of his life -- it is wrong to hold God responsible for what one intentionally plans to do or does under the pressure of vices. We cannot ignore the knowledge of good or bad while living this life.

    An ignorant person can be saved from doing wrong acts. But how can that person be saved who knowingly commits sins?

    ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
    ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ ॥੨੧੬॥
    "Kabeer, the mortal knows everything, and knowing, he still makes mistakes. What good is a lamp in one's hand, if he falls into the well? ||216||"
    (Ang 1376)

    If everything is in God's hands then why is there evil? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
     
  21. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    I have some ready made material taken from net. Hope this will clarify few things.

    Waheguru has given us intellect and physical competence to act according to certain basic principles of life. We are to use them and not sit like stones. When we act we have many ideas before us and many kinds of forces acting on us. Greed, anger, ego, love, sympathy, desire for service, etc. direct our actions toward others. Teaching and preaching are required to help a person make the right decisions. Virtues lead us to peace and vices lead us to trouble. Our happiness or sorrow depends upon the feelings under which we act. It is not justified to blame Waheguru for our failures or evil acts. To free ourselves of the guilt of doing antisocial or illegal acts, we tell ourselves that everything is in the hands of Waheguru; a human can do nothing. This is trying to "act smart." Actually, by this we only fool ourselves.

    There is a classic example of how this principle, "

    I do not do anything; everything is done by Waheguru" works and how its misuse is stopped.

    A second-time thief was sentenced by the judge for one year in jail. On hearing the sentence the thief addressed the judge, "Sir, do you believe in Waheguru, the Almighty Judge and that He does everything?"

    Judge: Yes, I do.

    Thief: Waheguru made me commit this theft according to His Will. Therefore, it is wrong for you to send me to jail.

    Judge: You are sentenced for two years. Do not blame me for increasing your sentence. You know that I can not do anything; everything is done by Waheguru.

    The thief learned the lesson of his life -- it is wrong to hold God responsible for what one intentionally plans to do or does under the pressure of vices. We cannot ignore the knowledge of good or bad while living this life.

    An ignorant person can be saved from doing wrong acts. But how can that person be saved who knowingly commits sins?

    ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਭ ਬਾਤ ਜਾਨਤ ਹੀ ਅਉਗਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥
    ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀ ਕੁਸਲਾਤ ਹਾਥਿ ਦੀਪੁ ਕੂਏ ਪਰੈ ॥੨੧੬॥
    "Kabeer, the mortal knows everything, and knowing, he still makes mistakes. What good is a lamp in one's hand, if he falls into the well? ||216||"
    (Ang 1376)

    If everything is in God's hands then why is there evil? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net

    Note: All that happens to us and that we find as unpalatable is to be taken as some form His justice meant for 'de-karmification' the karmas done by us in previous lives. God is Just. We have to accept Hukum. !
     

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