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Awe - Waheguru

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ishna, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Just saw this:
    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਜਪ ਹਉਮੈਂ ਖੋਈ ॥ "The Gurmantar is "Waheguru", through reciting which erases egotism.

    And wondered if a perpetual sense of awe is what the Gurmantar is supposed to instill in us.
    Awe
    noun
    1. an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like:in awe of God; in awe of great political figures.

    And here is a related quote from dictionary.com:
    "I know that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it; God has done this, so that all should stand in awe before him."

    The quote is from the Bible, Ecclesiastes 3:14, but uses the word 'fear' instead of 'awe'.
    http://www.bible.com/bible/Eccl.3.14.kjv
     
    #1 Ishna, Sep 8, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
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  3. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    ISHNA Ji,

    This Quote as ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਜਪ ਹਉਮੈਂ ਖੋਈ is not from Gurbanee.
    This is just for your kind attention and information pl.

    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  4. Archived_Member16

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    For your kind information:

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਜਪ ਹਉਮੈਂ ਖੋਈ॥ Vahiguroo Guroo Manthr Hai Jap Houmain Khoee|| Guru-manta is Vahiguru, whose recitation erases egotism.

    source: Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji Page:338 Line: 5

    Bhai Gurdas Ji's Varan have been referred to by Guru Arjan Dev Ji as the "Key" ("khungee") to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    Bhai Gurdas Ji is considered the first interpreter of Gurbani. His writings are considered key to understanding the Sikh holy scriptures. He wrote 40 vars (ballads) and 556 kabits (both forms of Punjabi poetry). These writings are considered the best specimens of Sikh literature and philosophy. He also had the opportunity to be the scribe of Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Adi Granth, the holiest Sikh scripture that was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev Ji, the fifth Sikh Guru, in 1604
     
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  5. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    I would not deny this important literature availabe to us.
    .But do we really or have accepted what Bhai Gurdas ji is revealing about NUMERICAL NUMBER ONE of the very important SYMBOL IKorEKONKAAR.

    I think this Key should be used to understand this also.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  6. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    One should understand what Bhai Gurdas is saying about Numerical Number ONE
    of the Very Firsy SYMBOL.

    Ref..VAAR 39

    ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ।
    Aykankaaru Ikaang Likhi Oorhaa Aoankaaru Likhaaiaa.
    एकंकारु इकांग लिखि ऊड़ा ओअंकारु लिखाइआ ।
    That homogenous supreme reality (God) ) first was written as numeral one

    There is no question of refering ONKAAR as ONE and give the meaning as
    GOD IS ONE for the SYMBOL.

    If one tries to see the what the word IKu refers to in Gurbanee ,the answer would be
    EKANKAAR.

    So the SYMBOL can be understood as EKANKAAR.ONKAAR A Supreme Reality
    Pervading All over.
    And this Supreme Reality is to be known as GuR.
    So one should try to understand this GuR.

    Bhul Chuk Maaf

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  7. Ishna

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    Thanks for clarifying the origin of the quote. It was not my intention to quote it as Gurbani.

    On the topic of awe, I just came across this quote:

    "I don't try to imagine a personal God; it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it." -- Albert Einstein

    Emphasis added by yours truly.

    Beautiful quote! And I think that quote epitimises the Gurmantar "Waheguru!"
     
  8. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    I think it is very hard to accept what GuRu ji says about this Gurmantra.

    One should be sincere in understanding the message of GuRu after all
    Gurmantra is very very important for the whole of ones life.

    There can be no substitute for Gurmantra as envisaged by GuRu ji in Gurbaanee.

    With best wishes

    Prakash>s.Bagga
     
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  9. Ishna

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    One wonders why the Gurmantra isn't written into Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji more than a handful of times if the word itself was so important.

    It's what's behind the word that is important, which is explained in poetic detail throughout the Granth Sahib. I think this is what you're trying to say, Prakash ji?

    Awe seems to be a pretty good fit for the expression behind the word 'Waheguru'.

    Of course I'm probably missing the point of it but I can only try.
     
  10. prakash.s.bagga

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    ISHNA Ji,
    I fully appreciate your views in context of the word AWE.

    The problem is that what GuRu ji is telling as Gurmantra in Gurbaanee One is going to overlook that.This is So Because

    Mindes have been trained since childhood as WAHi GuRoo (not Waheguru)
    to be accepted as Gurmantra.

    I may frankly tell you WAHi GuROO is A WORD OF GuR (In Gurbaanee it is refered as GuR Ka SABADu)

    This is where there is great deviation in correct understanding of Gurbaanee.

    I hope you can get to my point of understanding.

    With best wishes

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  11. BhagatSingh

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    Ishna ji don't you dare replace Fear with awe. Even Gurbani mentions Fear, that's right Fear (ਭੈ) of God as a way to Mukti.

    Forget awe for a second and 1 see if you can experience Fear. What is it REALLY like to feel fear?

    Afterall you should be fearful. If God is something which is going to kill your Haumai, that is, your sense of being Ishna. Then He is something to be feared, just like if you were to come across a snake, you (your haumai) would feel threatened and feeling fear is the natural response to that.

    Fear is looking death in the eyes, and God is the ultimate death. Bhagat Kabir ji used to meditate in cremation grounds precisely so he could study death intimately.

    2 Now feel it from a place of Love.
    If the previous step wasn't hard enough.

    When thinking about this I always come back this shabad.
    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody>
    <tr></tr><tr><td> ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ
    जतु पाहारा धीरजु सुनिआरु ॥
    Jaṯ pāhārā ḏẖīraj suni▫ār.
    Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ
    अहरणि मति वेदु हथीआरु ॥
    Ahraṇ maṯ veḏ hathī▫ār.
    Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ
    भउ खला अगनि तप ताउ ॥
    Bẖa▫o kẖalā agan ṯap ṯā▫o.
    With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of tapa, the body's inner heat.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ
    भांडा भाउ अम्रितु तितु ढालि ॥
    Bẖāʼndā bẖā▫o amriṯ ṯiṯ dẖāl.
    In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name,
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ
    घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
    Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
    and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ
    जिन कउ नदरि करमु तिन कार ॥
    Jin ka▫o naḏar karam ṯin kār.
    Such is the karma of those upon whom He has cast His Glance of Grace.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
    नानक नदरी नदरि निहाल ॥३८॥
    Nānak naḏrī naḏar nihāl. ||38||
    O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38||
    </td></tr></tbody></table>page 8

    That is, with self-control (through discipline), be patient (through practice of patience), equip yourself with understanding and wisdom (both from spiritual texts and people), with fear and love (both from your heart), meditate on Naam from this place.
     
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  12. Luckysingh

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    Good point, Bhagat ji.

    It's good to have you back on board, hope you had a good vacation and break.

    As sikhs, most of us do seem to be non abrahamical and try and deny the fear.
    I have heard many times from fellw sikhs, that we love God and don't fear him....etc..

    I think the real deal is actually to accept both Fear and Love with comletely equal mindedness. This manner can help to eliminate the defining line between them both.
    The intense effect that a thought or some moments of ''Fear'' that will have on a person will be the Same as the effects of a thought or moment of ''Love''

    Fear and Love are both what we make them, we have become conditioned in the maya illusion to associate feelings of pleasure and joy with 'Love' compared with pain and sadness for 'Fear'.
    That's where the problem is with manmukhs.
    I'm certain that a true Gurmukh does NOT have these defining lines and accepts both events and moments of fear and love with complete Equality.

    On a lighter note- I love Saagh but fear the mirch sometimesicecreammunda
     
  13. Ishna

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    I didn't replace the word 'fear' - the people who wrote that particular translation of the Bible did.
     
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  14. Luckysingh

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    Don't worry about that, it has led to some good discusion regarding fear and love.
    That's the work of hukam and destiny!!
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    WAH WAH WAH...is Exclamation of WONDER...Extreme JOY..wonderment..at HIS CREATION..HIS LAWS...HIS LOVE...everything that GURU teaches us...WAH-GUR and WAHEGURU mean the same..its an exclamation of wonder..neither awe nor fear.
    A Sikh is encouraged to hold the Creator,the Satguru, The GURU in highest regard...WAH WAH gur...guru...

    So in my mind..the GURMANTAR is OUR ACTIONS that REFLECT THIS HIGH REGARD...not empty lip service, meaningless mouthing of a word. Sikhs have made a mistake by following the Brahminical practice of taking a single word and mouthing it repeatedly as a "gurmantar" when its amply clear that Gurbani doenst place any faith in Mantars..How can there be a Gurmantar when we dont beleive in mantars ?? Gurbani however amply STRESSES ACTIONS, discipline, rehat, etc and to always Hold Him in highest regard...a Sikhs head ONLY bows to HIM...
     
    #14 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  16. Harry Haller

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    I do not feel fear is a useful tool in any relationship, my own interpretation of the phrase 'god fearing' is to fear the absence of connection, to fear the lack of a state of Naam, you cannot love and fear someone at the same time, you can only love, and fear the absence
     
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  17. Luckysingh

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    Page 1288<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>
    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਦਾ ਸਾਰ

    Āp upā▫e meḏnī āpe karḏā sār.

    He Himself creates the world, and He himself takes care of it.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਟੀਐ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ

    Bẖai bin bẖaram na katī▫ai nām na lagai pi▫ār.

    Without the Fear of God, doubt is not dispelled, and love for the Name is not embraced.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਭਉ ਊਪਜੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰ

    Saṯgur ṯe bẖa▫o ūpjai pā▫ī▫ai mokẖ ḏu▫ār.

    Through the True Guru, the Fear of God wells up, and the Door of Salvation is found.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭੈ ਤੇ ਸਹਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਿਲਿ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰ

    Bẖai ṯe sahj pā▫ī▫ai mil joṯī joṯ apār.

    Through the Fear of God, intuitive ease is obtained, and one's light merges into the Light of the Infinite.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭੈ ਤੇ ਭੈਜਲੁ ਲੰਘੀਐ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ

    Bẖai ṯe bẖaijal langẖī▫ai gurmaṯī vīcẖār.

    Through the Fear of God, the terrifying world-ocean is crossed over, reflecting on the Guru's Teachings.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭੈ ਤੇ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ

    Bẖai ṯe nirbẖa▫o pā▫ī▫ai jis ḏā anṯ na pārāvār.

    Through the Fear of God, the Fearless Lord is found; He has no end or limitation.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭੈ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਜਲਤੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਪੁਕਾਰ O Nanak, through the Name, peace is obtained, by enshrining the Guru's Teachings within the heart. ||22||


    Manmukẖ bẖai kī sār na jāṇnī ṯarisnā jalṯe karahi pukār.

    The self-willed manmukhs do not appreciate the value of the Fear of God. Burning in desire, they weep and wail.


    </TD></TR><TR><TD>
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰ ॥੨੨॥

    Nānak nāvai hī ṯe sukẖ pā▫i▫ā gurmaṯī ur ḏẖār. ||22||

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    The fear is not about being afraid of God, it is about fear of unrightous or immoral conduct in one's life.
    To have fear is to have love and respect for the divine laws. It is like a student having fear of their teacher, because the teachers commands have to be followed if the student wants to pass. In the same manner, we have to follow the divine laws of hukam and his commands.

    This fear is also termed with the fear of consequences of one's Karma. (You have to understand karma in sikhism in this case!!).
     
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  18. Harry Haller

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    ie a lack of connection? :interestedmunda:
     
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  19. Luckysingh

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    Yes!!
    When one is not connected is when one is more likely to do wrong or immoral !! (I'm talking about Normal people here!).
    See below for not so normal-

    There will always be the clever ones or should i say not so clever that feel extra connected when doing wrong because they simply don't believe they are wrong.
    .. It's coming upto 9/11 and that reminds me of the hijacking pilots that killed in the love of connection thinking that they were doing no wrong.
     
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  20. Harry Haller

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    I disagree Luckyji, Islam by the very nature of its described heaven, is in possession of a reward system, and by its described hell, a fear system. Sikhism favours 24/7 connection, with heaven and hell a daily result.

    I think those fellows were just thinking of the high breasted, non menstruating, non urinating angels in heaven, rather than any connection.
     
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  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    we sikhs give way too much credence to writings OUTSIDE SGGS....

    Wahiguru is one word that describes an aspect of God, and there are many more words that describe aspects of God, and others words like Prabh or Allah that just translate as God.

    Guru repeatedly writes Har, Har, Har, Har etc and also uses combinations of God words of may kinds.


    Bhai Gurdas and the Rehat Maryada apparently want to tell us that we can only meditate on Wahiguru and on 'Ik Ongkar ..... Gurprasad', which Bhai Gurdas, not Guru, calls gurmantr and mulmantr.


    Why this restriction ? Why can we not meditate on any God-word as Guru does ?


    Why follow the teachings of Bhai Gurdas if these contradict the Guru Granth Sahib ?

    Remeber Bhai Gurdass Ji is the SCRIBE of SGGS..He is also the mamaa Of Guru Arjun JI Sahib..He also wrote a LOT of POETRY...YET NONE of that poetry was given a place in SGGS..while the Bani of Baba Sunder Ji is there !! Baba Sunder Ji wrote NOTHING except Ramklai SADD !! a Short Gurbani about the Passing ON of Guru Amardass Ji...
    So its clear that Guru Ji found Bhai Gurdass Jis poetry WANTING !! and second point to consider is that what we SEE TODAY as Bhai gurdass JI Vaars/kabits have been CONTAMINATED/ADULTERATED. Biggest evidence of this ADULTERATION is the addition of a SPURIOUS FAKE VAAR by a FAKE ANONYMOUS AUTHOR at the END of Bhai gurdass Jis 40 vaars..as the 41st Vaar !! This adulteration went UN-NOTICED for Centuries..inspite of it STANDING OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB WHACKED Good and Proper with a HAMMER !! we IGNORED it like the proverbial fly in the ointment..makhee in the Milk !!..when our first reactions should have been WHATS THIS ??? WHY is it here ??? who put it there ??? NO WAY..Faced with the undeniable evidence that this 41st vaar could NOT be the creation of Bhai gurdass..we INVENTED a Name..BHAI GURDASS "SINGH" to explain away the anonymous author and his fake addition...its like the Mother of a Guilty Son tries lie after lie to convince the police that her son is do gooder, hardworking student..etc etc and he could never be a rapist or killer..when the police have solid evidence against him...When faced with the uncomfortable Fact that the 41st vaar is all about Guru Gobind Singhs period..so it just impossible to be work of Bhai gurdass of GURU ARJUN jis time...we LIE and convince ourselves.." Then IT MUST be Bhai gurdass SINGH !! how else could such a extra poem end up attached to the Vaars of Bhai gurdass ?? We never even stop to think..WHY would a Bhai gurdass SINGH even if he existed..go to such lengths to HIDE his vaar at the Back of the earlier Bhai gurdass ?? Why cant he own up to His own vaar ?? we apologise for such a FRAUD a cheater.. SO WHAT proof do we have that the earlier 40 vaars are TRUE 100% ?? Thye are not adulterated ?? LITMUS TEST...SGGS GURBANI....anything that FAILS this Litmus TEST is FAKE. period. Thus the Waheguru gurmantar hai and the explanation of how Waheguru word is made up..BOTH FAIL on the basis of SGGS Gurbani. PERIOD.
     
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