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Authentic Sikhism Defined?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by spnadmin, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    It has been too quiet these past 2 weeks in the forum. No robust debates going on. Almost ready to call it a day, a short one at that, and while making my rounds as admin, I was stopped short by this article. It is tabbed in my browser under the blog of respected forum member Kaur -1 at New Article: Authenticity of the True Path Kaurkhalsaraj's Blog


    I haven't been able to ignore these days
    the persistent concerns on Sikh forums with Who is Tankhaeya -- which to me seems to be a total provocation and an abandonment of Guru Nanak's teachings. This question of who is tankhaeya seems an obsession with what everyone else is doing wrong; or whether Person X or Group Z can correctly decide that paap is clinging to everyone else but themselves. My understanding is that we should be focused on the inner quality of our own spirituality. I thought that Sikhism is in large part a teaching of authentic compassion rather than of stringent judgment.

    Here is the article. I don't know if I agree even a little bit with what I have read in it. And I wonder what forum members think of the article? Is the content consistent with your understanding of what is authentically Sikh about Sikhi, or authentically Sikhi about Sikhism, or authentically Sikh about Sikhs and Sikhism? I just don't know. After forum members have a chance to react, maybe I will post some debatable questions or underscore some debatable assumptions in this article.

    But please! Express yourselves before I go on endlessly. Sat Nam!
    [​IMG]
    Authenticity of the True Path
    By: Bijla Singh
    Sikhi is a way of life based on pure and pious living. It is a dynamic and practical religion. It has certain principles and a certain discipline to follow. More important than belief in the principles of the Sikh faith is the actual practice of the teachings of the Gurus. There are set rules and ways for the ideal life in Sikhi which determine Sikh belief and practices. These belief, principles and practices collectively are called Sikh Rehat Maryada (code of conduct). It is a manual and code of discipline for the followers of the Sikh faith for social, moral, religious, spiritual and general living.

    Rehat Maryada was started by Guru Nanak Sahib. During the two centuries of the Gurus, Sikh belief and practices evolved slowly and matured until it was finalized by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. In 1699, the mission started by Guru Nanak Sahib was completed and Sikhs were completely transformed into a separate nation. It is absolutely imperative for every Sikh to follow the Rehat Maryada. If a Sikh breaches the cardinal instructions of no hair cutting, no adultery, no use of intoxicants and no eating of Kutha meat, he is called Patit and the transgressor must go through the initiation process again. If a Sikh violates the code of conduct other than the four cardinal transgressions, he becomes Tankhaeya and has to appear before the Panj Pyaras for undergoing Tankhah. It is very essential to point out that no individual or individual organization has the authority to change or alter the Sikh Rehat Maryada as per personal needs and whims. Any need for change must be done by the collective decision of the Khalsa Panth and the change must be based on holy Guru Granth Sahib and authentic Sikh scriptures and sources.

    During British rule in India, it became necessary for Sikhs to write a true version of the Rehat Maryada in order to make it uniform and consistent as Sikh adversaries and particularly those who were propagating the myth that the Sikh religion was part of Hinduism, were creating confusions among the Sikhs. They did this to lure Sikhs to follow the same Brahmanical rites and rituals which had been rejected in Sikhism by Guru Nanak Sahib Ji, i.e. right from the beginning. Therefore, in 1945 Rehat Maryada was published which has become the only Maryada accepted by Akal Takhat. Ignorant of the Sikh motive behind this move, Sikh doctrine and history, Muslims have questioned the veracity of the Rehat Maryada. They state:

    Due to the absence of clear guidance and edicts concerning what is permissible and impermissible in Sikhism's Holy Scripture, the Sikh world was forced to render and formulate a customised 'code of conduct' providing guidelines for all Sikhs to follow.

    The statement is far from the truth. There is not a single line written in Rehat Maryada that cannot be referenced to Sikh scriptures and authentic historical sources. Also, it is in accordance with the Sikh dictums and Sikh religious practices, already being followed by Sikhs from the days of the Sikh Gurus. We will by Guru’s Kirpa (grace) show in this article that Rehat Maryada is not an invention of the Sikhs but a document based on authentic Sikh scriptures and sources.

    Falsehood will come to an end, O Nanak, and Truth will prevail in the end. (Ang 953)
    ____________
    end of article:)


     
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  3. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    Sikh/ ਸਿੱਖ

    Sikh word has been used in Sabd Guru as student/pupil/teaching/or a tuft of hair or head -ਚੇਲਾ, ਵਿਦਆਰਥੀ, ਸ਼ਿਸ਼। ਸ਼ਿਸ਼/ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ/ਦਾ/ਨੂੰ। ਸਿੱਖਿਆ। ਸਿੱਖ/ਸਮਝ! ਬੋਦੀ, ਚੋਟੀ, ਸਿਰ।
    A Sikh is the student of truth who understands and live the teachings contained in Sabd Guru (AGGS) in word, thought, spirit, and deed at each step of daily life. One must take these teachings until these take you. The mechanical recitation of Nitname and other rituals performed daily etc with out understanding are all superstitions with out any spiritual benefit or ਖੇਪ. It is the development of virtues which makes it a devotional worship says Guru Nanak in his japji;

    ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

    viṇ guṇ kīṯė bẖagaṯ na ho¬ė.

    Without virtue, there is no devotional worship. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 4-16

    Guru Nanak further advises on good and bad acts as the basis for Divine justice in Raag Ramkali;

    ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਸਿਖ ਸਹੀ ॥ਲੇਖਾ ਰਬੁ ਮੰਗੇਸੀਆ ਬੈਠਾ ਕਢਿ ਵਹੀ ॥

    Nānak ākẖai rė manā suṇī¬ai sikẖ sahī. Lėkẖā rab mangėsī¬ā baiṯẖā kadẖ vahī.

    O mind, listen to the True Teachings, Says Nanak, that God will call you to account by opening the ledger. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 953-13

    ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ ॥

    Mūnd mudā¬ė jatā sikẖ bāḏẖī mon rahai abẖimānā. Manū¬ā dolai ḏah ḏis ḏẖāvai bin raṯ āṯam gi¬ānā.

    Some shave their heads, some keep their hair in matted tangles; others observing silence are yet full of pride. Without loving devotion and enlightenment of the self their minds waver and wander in ten directions. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1013-5

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਵੈ ਤ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਕੋਈ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਛਡਿ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਏ ॥ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਏ ॥
    Kahai Nānak suṇhu sanṯahu so sikẖ sanmukẖ ho¬ė.Jė ko sikẖ gurū sėṯī sanmukẖ hovai. Hovai ṯa sanmukẖ sikẖ ko¬ī jī¬ahu rahai gur nālė. Āp cẖẖad saḏā rahai parṇai gur bin avar na jāṇai ko¬ė.

    If a Sikh turns to the Guru with sincere faith, as sunmukh - his soul abides with the Guru. Renouncing selfishness and conceit, he remains always on the side of the Guru; he does not know anyone except the Guru. Says Nanak, listen, O Saints: such a Sikh turns toward the Guru with sincere faith, and becomes sunmukh. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 919-18 & 19, & 920-21

    ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥

    Gur saṯgur kā jo sikẖ akẖā¬ė so bẖalkė uṯẖ har nām ḏẖi¬āvai. Uḏam karė bẖalkė parbẖāṯī isnān karė amriṯ sar nāvai. Upḏės gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ leh jāvai. Fir cẖaṛai ḏivas gurbāṇī gāvai bahḏi¬ā uṯẖ¬ḏi¬ā har nām ḏẖi¬āvai. Jo sās girās ḏẖi¬ā¬ė mėrā har har so gursikẖ gurū man bẖāvai. Jis no ḏa¬i¬āl hovai mėrā su¬āmī ṯis gursikẖ gurū upḏės suṇāvai. Jan Nānak ḏẖūṛ mangai ṯis gursikẖ kī jo āp japai avrah nām japāvai.

    One who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru, shall rise early in the morning hours and meditate on the Akal Purkh's Name. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Eternal Akal Purkh. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Name. One who meditates on my Eternal God, with every breath and every morsel of food - that Gur Sikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. That person, unto whom my God and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that Gur Sikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed. Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that Gur Sikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. -----Guru Ramdas, Gauri Ki Var, AGGS, Page, 305

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਮਹਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਰਖਾਈ ॥ਗੁਰੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਸਿਖ ਦੇਵੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥

    Har har gur meh bẖagaṯ rakẖā¬ī. Gur ṯuṯẖā sikẖ ḏėvai mėrė bẖā¬ī.

    The Akal Purkh has implanted Its devotional worship in the Guru. When the Guru is pleased, He bestows it upon His Sikh, O my siblings of Destiny. -----Guru Ramdas, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 367-12

    Conclusion;

    He who believes in One creator, equality for all, with understanding and deliberation of the Gur Bani contained in AGGS with reflection on its teachings in daily life is a Sikh. The practice of the Sikh faith at present is quite different than the teachings contained in AGGS. Sikh Gurus simplified the faith in One Creator for all humanity and advised to get rid of empty superstitious rituals. Sikh faith is no religion IMHO, it is a way of life according to the principles contained in Sabd Guru; if followed honestly and truthfully will make an individual a better human believing in human equality and finding God in him self says Nanak in his Japji;

    ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥

    Maṯ vicẖ raṯan javāhar māṇik jė ik gur kī sikẖ suṇī.

    Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once.-----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 2-12

    ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥

    Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai.

    He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculate Pure from impure.------Guru Gobind Singh Sawaeeya # 1, DG, Page, 712


    Virinder S. Grewal
     
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  4. harbansj24

    harbansj24
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    The article is correct insofar as the as the recommendations of Committee formed by SGPC to formulate SRM and it being circulated to Sikh Sangat on 1st October 1932 and finally being taken on record on 3rd February 1945.

    The SRM defines Sikh as "a women or man who has total faith in and believes in one Akal Purakh, ten Gurus ( from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Gobind Singh) Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Guru's Banis and teachings, AND DASAM PITA'S AMRIT and does not believe in any other faith"

    Now this in opinion my be interpreted in 2 ways that is:

    This is applicable only to Amritdhari Sikhs.
    or
    Only those who have taken Amrit are Gursikhs.

    These are very emotive and controversial issues and people are likely to respond in a way that defends their personal state of being.

    My personal and and if I can say liberal take is as follows:

    The number of adherents of Sikhism being very small, there is overwhelming influence and prodding by Hinduism to merge into it. As it is a large number of Sikhs especially in Punjab have also started going to Hindu places of worship and pilgrimage. They are taking to Hindu superstitions in a big way. This totally negates Guru Nanak's philosophy.

    This can partially be arrested by at least having a unique identity of being Sabat Surat. I have seen that there have been serious discussions on this forum even disputing this aspect which has also been upheld by the highest judicial authority that is the Supreme Court of India recently. If we are going to give up this also then I can assure you that Guru Nanak's philosophy will become extinct at least in India. As it is rural Punjab has practically been lost.

    Yesterday a Katha was transmitted over Chardia kalan channel from Bangla sahib by its Head Granthi Harnam Singh ji. He quoted"Ajit" newspaper that recently army had launched a drive in Punjab to recruit only Sabat Surat Sikh youth in army (because after a long time the authorities have realised that such Sikhs were totally determined and devoted to defence of motherland) But with great difficulty they could recruit only 10 such young men!
     
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  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    What Harbhansj24 do you think there is a widespread need on the Internet to find other Sikhs Tankheaya?

    SGPC has written some rules. I do not understand how every other individual with a computer becomes an authorized member of the 'Sikh judiciary.' It is one thing to argue that the rehat must be followed. It is something else entirely to judge the moral standing of another human being, even those one has never met and probably never will.

    Take it out to the logical/illogical extreme. What we would be agreeing to is that self-appointed 'panthic' representatives can make lengthy lists of who is tankheaya and who is not. We then could have opposing organizations making counter-lists. Is that not a little frightening?
     
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  6. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
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    SIKHI/ਸਿਖੀ/ਸਿੱਖੀ

    ABSTRACT

    Sikhi/ਸਿੱਖੀ-discipleship-ਸਿਖ੍ਯਾ ਧਾਰਨ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ। It is the way of life for a disciple as per the teachings of the Sabd Guru, which has to be followed at every step of daily life. It is not just a verbal statement but one has to live it to progress on the path of spirituality. The wishful religion has to be of proof and performance but not purely of promise by birth to Sikh parents or physical identity and should be by attraction of the principles set in AGGS for the new comers coming under Its fold.

    ਸਿਖੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਲਘਾਏ ਪਾਰਿ ॥

    Sikẖī sikẖi¬ā gur vīcẖār. Naḏrī karam lagẖā¬ė pār.

    Reflecting on Guru’s teachings is the path for the disciple, who then being blessed by Guru’s Grace, crosses the worldly ocean. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 465-10 & 11

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vichar on the Sabd is to understand and reflect on the teachings in daily life with altruism. It is not just a simple belief or blind faith but action on the Sabd with deliberation, contemplation, and living the teachings in day to day life in word, thought, spirit, and deeds. In fact it is the later, which will define the faith of the individual, rather than the physical appearance or by birth just as a book cover does not reveal its contents unless read.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਚੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣਾਈ ॥ਹਰਿ ਚੇਤਹੁ ਅੰਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਸਖਾਈ ॥

    Saṯgur sācẖī sikẖ suṇā¬ī. Har cẖėṯahu anṯ ho¬ė sakẖā¬ī.

    The True Guru has imparted the True Teachings that one should always think of the Akal Purkh, who will be the Support in the end. -----Guru Amardas, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 117-19 & 118-1

    The word Sikhi comes in many hymns of Sabd Guru;

    ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨਦੀ ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖੀ ਨਾਤੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਸਿਰਖੁਥੇ ਨਾਵਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਾ ਸਤ ਚਟੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਛਾਈ ॥

    Gurū samunḏ naḏī sabẖ sikẖī nāṯai jiṯ vadi¬ā¬ī.Nanak Jay Sirkuthay Navan Nahi Ta Sat Chatay Sis Chaaee.

    The preceptor is like the ocean, and all his Teachings are like the river. Bathing in these brings exaltation. O Nanak, if the ones with plucked hairs abjure bathing, then they merit throwing seven handfuls of dust on their heads. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 150-6

    ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਫਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਓਨਾ ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਓਇ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਸਚੀ ਪੈਨਾਏ ॥

    Gursikẖī amriṯ bīji¬ā ṯin amriṯ fal har pā¬ė. Ona Halat Palat Mukh Oujlay Ouay Har Dargeh Sachi Painaey.

    By reflecting on the teachings of the Guru is planting ambrosial nectar, and obtain the Akal Purkh as their ambrosial fruit. Their faces are radiant in this world and the next; and they are robed with honor in Its court. -----Guru Ramdas, Raag Gauri, A GGS, Page, 302 -18 & 19

    ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬੀਜੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਭਲੇ ਨੋ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਖੇਤੁ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਫਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

    Sabh Ko Beejai Aapnay Bhalay No Har Bhavai So Khet Jamae-aa.Gursikẖī har amriṯ bīji¬ā har amriṯ nām fal amriṯ pā¬i¬ā.

    They all plant for their own good, but the Akal Purkh causes to grow only that field with which It is pleased. The Guru’s teachings is planting the Naam of Akal Purkh's Ambrosial Nectar, and obtains Its fruit of Amrit -----Guru Ramdas, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 304-8

    ਕੋਈ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਾਲਾ ਮੁਹੁ ਜਮਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਅਗੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਢੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਮਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥

    Ŧis agai picẖẖai dẖo¬ī nāhī gursikẖī man vīcẖāri¬ā. Ŧis agai picẖẖai dẖo▫ī nāhī gursikẖī man vīcẖāri▫ā.

    If someone separates himself from the True Guru, his face is blackened, and he is destroyed by the Messenger of Death. He shall find no shelter, here or hereafter; the teachings of the Guru have made them realize this in their minds.-----Guru Ramdas, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 311-19 & 312-1

    ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਜਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਸਿਖੀ ਕੰਨੇ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਭਾਣਾ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਚੜੀ ਚਵਗਣਿ ਵੰਨੇ ॥ਇਹ ਚਾਲ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖੀ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨੁ ਭਿੰਨੇ ॥

    Upḏės je ḏiṯā saṯgurū so suṇi¬ā sikẖī kannė. Jin saṯgur kā bẖāṇā mani▫ā ṯin cẖaṛī cẖavgaṇ vanne. Ih cẖāl nirālī gurmukẖī gur ḏīkẖi▫ā suṇ man bẖinne.

    The Sikhs listen to the Teachings imparted by the True Guru. Those who surrender to the True Guru's Will are imbued with the four-fold Love of the Akal Purkh. This is the unique and distinct life-style of the Guru willed: listening to the Guru's Teachings, their minds blossom forth.-----Guru Amardas, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 314-9 & 10

    ਸਿਖੀ ਅਤੈ ਸੰਗਤੀ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਿਆ॥ਅਟਲੁ ਅਥਾਹੁ ਅਤੋਲੁ ਤੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰਿਆ ॥

    Sikẖī aṯai sangṯī pārbarahm kar namaskāri¬ā. Atal athāhu aṯol ṯū ṯerā anṯ na pārāvāri▫ā.

    The Sikhs and the entire congregation recognize You as the Supreme God, and bow down to you. You are unchanging, unfathomable and immeasurable; You have no end or limitation.-----Satta Balwand, AGGS, Page, 968-10

    ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਭਾਣਾ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਲੰਘਾਇ ॥ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਧੂੜਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਂਹਿ ॥

    Gursikẖī bẖāṇā mani¬ā gur pūrā pār langẖā¬ė. Gursikẖāʼn kī har ḏẖūṛ ḏeh ham pāpī bẖī gaṯ pāʼnhi.

    The Sikhs of the Guru accept and obey the Akal Purkh's Will; the Perfect Guru carries them across. O God, please bless me with the dust of the feet of the Guru's Sikhs. I am a sinner - please save me. -----Guru Ramdas Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1424-8

    Conclusion;

    1. The present Guru of Sikhs and for ever is AGGS and no where It describes the present definitions used for being a Sikh.

    2. The only things it refers to is Gurmukh (Guru willed) or Manmukh (Self willed.)

    3. Any religion to a person is a personal and private thing.

    4. Institutionalizing a religion loses its perspective on spirituality and promotes controlling the followers.

    5. Moto should be to live and let live, The God’s light is present in all so how one can be good and the other one bad;

    ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਾਂ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥​

    Mandaa Kis No Aakheeai Jaan Tis Bin Koyee Naahi.

    Whom can we call bad? There is none without God.​

    Sheikh Farid Sloke 75, AGGS, Page, 1381​

    Virinder S. Grewal
     
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  7. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Virinder Ji

    Here I would like to clarify when you say, 'He who believes in One creator, equality for all, with understanding and deliberation of the Gur Bani contained in AGGS with reflection on its teachings in daily life is a Sikh.' Is this apply to the one who is born in a sikh family but has forsaken sikhi swroop irrespective of whatever efforts he makes as just effort leads to confidence in ego, Grace to surrender of the ego: effort focuses on disputes about codes of behavior, Grace on the changes within; effort condemns others as not strict enough to deserve, Grace accepts all, starts from recognition of our nothingness and accepts all as a Gift of Love.

    In the first stanza Guru Nanak starts with pre-qualification or how to break the wall of fog coated in our mind which is leading us to ignorance and be sachiara with ourselves. Then Guru Nanak says, the pre-requisite is, 'Hukam Rajai chalna' surrender yourselves to to the Hukam as designed or in the form He so effortlessly created you in order please Him as anything done without pleasing Him is worthless. Any chalna with haumai or correction in His perfection may be a wasteful exercise. Guru Nanak only gives definition of Hindus and Muslims. He does not encourage or ask them to convert but says stay wherever but be branded good Muslims and Hindus. But what about who are blessed and born in Sikh family. Have they reached to a stage where they can be branded?

    In Kuwait in the locality where I stay I noticed several times that generally people build a beautiful house but after construction is complete, next day I see it is demolished completely. Upon checking with the concerned parties, I was told since they were not happy with the design, they are rebuilding again with better design they like. Accordingly how many times God must have constructed us and destroyed us but finally when He was contented and totally pleased with the design, he let it go. If we attempt to make any correction or temper with His perfection are not we trying to annoy Him when our first priorities is to please Him.


    Best regards
    Mohinder Singh Sahni
    Kuwait
     
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  8. harbansj24

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    Narayanjot ji,

    I entirely agree with you on that. The SRM also prescribes that it is upto the individual concerned, who in his own opinion thinks that he has violated the moral code of conduct to present himself before the Panj Pyare and ask for forgiveness. The Panj Pyare will deliberate and arrive at the tankah that is to awarded before he can be forgiven.

    I do not know about anybody being declared Tankhaeya on the internet. If there is such a practice then it does make a mockery of a solemn affair. As I have said in another thread, Akal Takht declares Tankhaeya only well known Sikhs who are in a position to influence and set a trend in the community which in the opinion of Akal Takht is not desirable. It is a different matter that Akali dal has made it into a political tool.

    But I was making a different point which I hope will not be missed. That is about the community maintaining a unique identity in order not be submerged in Hinduism and thus losing Guru Nanak's unparalleled and well thought out practical philosophy for ever. There is a real danger of that happening at least in India. Guru Nanak in that case will be relegated to one of the several bakhts or one of the deities of Hinduism.
     
  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Harbhansj24 ji

    You point was not missed. The importance of maintaining a unique identity so as not to be submerged in Hinduism and not lose forever Guru Nanak's philosophy should be a concern for all of us. Unfortunately those members of the panth who are publicly dedicated to the cause of calling out thankaeya (even though they do not sit in any official capacity to do so) are frequently the same individuals who in fact do welcome inflitrations of "Hindu" concepts and practices. The are frequently damning others as violators of the maryada, but themselves do not follow it.
     
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  10. Tejwant Singh

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    Narayanjot ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Beautifully and boldly said.No one could have expressed it better.

    These honchos which are supposed to be the custodians of the Sikh Panth are more politically motivated in their many ill fated decisions that they have taken rather than basing them on the Miri- Piri concept of Sikhi from the Panaas of SGGS.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  11. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Sahni Ji,

    I had annswered your question in my second posting on Sikhi. I do not know where it has gone.
    About the example of the house I agree with you even after it is built one may not like it. It has happened with me but I could not afford to destroy and build another one.

    I shared my understanding of a Sikh with the members which similarly might not fit with much evolved individfuals. I undertand that the word GURMUKH means to become a better person by subjugating the lower instincts and developing higher ones with individual effort. I my self might not be able to reach that stage but at least I am making an honest attempt towards it.

    Thanks for your interaction.

    Regards.

    Virinder
     
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  12. harbansj24

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    Narayanjot ji, Tejwant ji and Grewal ji,

    I think there should not be any doubt that time for another revival movement of Sikhism has come.

    And this time it will be led from outside India and will be multilingual maybe in English, Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu etc with Ragis , Kathakars and common Sikhs from India joining it.

    Only then will Guru Gobind Singh ji's vision of having a 960 million strong Khalsa Fauj will become a reality.

    Gurfateh
     
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  13. vsgrewal48895

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    Dear Harbans Ji,

    Your thoughts are more than welcome.

    Cordially,

    Virinder
     
  14. spnadmin

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    harbhansj24 ji

    It is an exciting thought. Something that could actually happen before we realize. Probably not in my earthly span of time but maybe in yours. :)

    On the subject however of picking and choosing I do want to say, most respected sahni ji -- In my humble opinion you have made a universe full of sense!

    But let me also add that the article alarms me because it is missing the care you have for

    • Grace to surrender of the ego: effort focuses on disputes about codes of behavior, Grace on the changes within; effort condemns others as not strict enough to deserve, Grace accepts all, starts from recognition of our nothingness and accepts all as a Gift of Love. (quoted from japjisahib ji)
    and for

    • Any chalna with haumai or correction in His perfection may be a wasteful exercise. Guru Nanak only gives definition of Hindus and Muslims. He does not encourage or ask them to convert but says stay wherever but be branded good Muslims and Hindus. But what about who are blessed and born in Sikh family. Have they reached to a stage where they can be branded? (quoted from japjisahib ji)
    We have yet to outline what is often mistaken for authenticity, and what is factually and actually incorrect, when setting out to define the authentic Sikh identity.
     
  15. Huck_Finn

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    narayanjot ji

    a few things are best left to contemplation

    if things were so easy to explain and share without contemplation, Guru ji would have made a small list to follow.

    This is the beauty of SGGS, it promotes contemplation.
     
  16. Huck_Finn

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    here is the original question though -

    Please define true path and markers with concrete examples and also who is a Seeker and what does he/she seeks and what is the way for him/her to obtain it.
     
  17. spnadmin

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    No, Huck Finn ji

    This is the original question,

    I haven't been able to ignore these days the persistent concerns on Sikh forums with Who is Tankhaeya -- which to me seems to be a total provocation and an abandonment of Guru Nanak's teachings. This question of who is tankhaeya seems an obsession with what everyone else is doing wrong; or whether Person X or Group Z can correctly decide that paap is clinging to everyone else but themselves. My understanding is that we should be focused on the inner quality of our own spirituality. I thought that Sikhism is in large part a teaching of authentic compassion rather than of stringent judgment.

    Here is the article. I don't know if I agree even a little bit with what I have read in it. And I wonder what forum members think of the article? Is the content consistent with your understanding of what is authentically Sikh about Sikhi, or authentically Sikhi about Sikhism, or authentically Sikh about Sikhs and Sikhism? I just don't know. After forum members have a chance to react, maybe I will post some debatable questions or underscore some debatable assumptions in this article.

    This thread is dying in its infancy because of purposeful digressions. I may actually move a lot of this discussion to a different thread so that we can get back to the original point of the thread.

     
  18. Huck_Finn

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    ok ji

    let me rephrase the question as to me it leaves a lot to interpretation of someone reading it, like me :)

    Is Sikhism = Living by your interpretation of the teachings of Guru ji as embodied in SGGS

    or is Sikhism = Following Rehat which as the article states is derived from the teachings of SGGS and other historical narrative

    please correct me if i am wrong
     
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  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Huck Finn ji

    Actually I do not see the problem as A. living by your interpretation of the teachings of Guru ji or B. following rehat. These are not mutually exclusive. On that point I agree with the author of the article Bilja Singh. However I do think that to be authentically Sikh implies more than the rehat. Rehat Maryada was never intended to be a "how to do it manual" in the first place.

    There are some serious problems with the article in the starter post -- assumptions that are made that are not correct and from which Bilja Singh draws conclusions. It would be great if forum members who so choose would discuss the implications of the article, either agreeing with his assumptions or challenging them.

    If one wanted to restate the question/s -- then I would ask this. Did Bilja Singh get it right? Has his article defined the authentic Sikh?
     
  20. Huck_Finn

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    i will still point back to 1660 & 1664

    Those years are very important clues to our approach for this question.

    Ram Rai and Dhir Mall
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    Once again i would respectfully request that you elaborate on the connection between the dates, Ram Rai and Dhir Mall, and my concerns expressed in Post 1 and elsewhere in the thread. Narayanjot Kaur
     

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