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As a Sikh do you ever ask when hurting or feeling low, God/Creator, why me?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ambarsaria, Mar 23, 2012.

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How you cope spiritually and in your mind to negative feelings?

  1. I believe it is Karma from many lives before that I am paying for.

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  2. I believe I am just reaping what I sow in this life.

    4 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Up/down is being human and creator is neither partial nor vengeful.

    14 vote(s)
    31.8%
  4. I am thankful for what I have versus be sorry for what is not perfect.

    10 vote(s)
    22.7%
  5. Other.

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  1. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    We are all human being whether Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists. Many a times our bodies reflect our ways of living. Our inner self also reflects a core quite but also very unique in our thoughts and reactions. One of the emotions generally related to our living is attachment/Moh. It affects us when what we experience differs from expectations in a negative way.

    EXAMPLES:

    • A dear one gets sick or passes away.
    • You lose all you have.
    • Nothing seem to go your way no matter how hard you try compared to person next to you, who you believe has all the luck.
    We learn from the school of hard knocks and find ways to reason and achieve peace. It is perhaps possible we can learn and share as well and so help each other and our own selves.

    How you cope spiritually and in your mind to negative feelings?

    1. I believe it is Karma from many lives before that I am paying for.
    2. I believe I am just reaping what I sow in this life.
    3. Up/down is being human and creator is neither partial nor vengeful.
    4. I am thankful for what I have versus be sorry for what is not perfect.
    5. Other.
    Any thoughts.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #1 Ambarsaria, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
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  3. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    How come it's not possible to select more than one option?

    Any meditative tradition suggests teh path of least resistance. You let yourself feel the negativity and let yourself feel bad. No need for some kind of rational explanation or anything (like the ones in the poll) these add to the resistance. In fact, explanations and further thought initially hinders the meditative process. Just feel it. Feel the negativity in you and slowly start to feel the positivity surrounding the negativity. The positive in which the negative dwells. And be at peace with this negativity. It's OK to be negative.
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Bhagat Singh ji thanks for your post. Couple of comments.
    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  5. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Oh there are sooo many. Authors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Echkart Tolle, Shinzen Young, Thich Nhat Hanh, etc etc. list goes on...

    Ok I went with "other". I cannot relate to any of the poll options. For me it's always other kinds of rational thoughts based on what I have studied of human biology and psychology, what I understand of the phenomenon itself, and the insights I got from meditating.

    Thoughts are a result of and further drive the momentum of negativity. Hence why you replace thoughts with "Waheguru waheguru..." "Ram Ram..." and at least the negativity isn't being fuelled. Further meditation then clarifies the perception. You see things for what they are. You see reality itself, God. You will notice that an accurate perception of life is the antidote to negativity. So stop providing fuel, provide the antidote and the brain returns to homeostasis... eventually.

    ਮਲਾਰ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ਪੜਤਾਲ ਘਰੁ ੩
    मलार महला ४ पड़ताल घरु ३
    Malār mėhlā 4 paṛ▫ṯāl gẖar 3
    Malaar, Fourth Mehl, Partaal, Third House:

    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    हरि जन बोलत स्रीराम नामा मिलि साधसंगति हरि तोर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Har jan bolaṯ sarīrām nāmā mil sāḏẖsangaṯ har ṯor. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    The humble servant of the Lord chants the Name of the Supreme Lord; he joins the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Lord's Holy. ||1||Pause||

    ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਬਨਜਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਚਹੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਾਗਤ ਹੈ ਨਹੀ ਚੋਰ ॥੧॥
    हरि धनु बनजहु हरि धनु संचहु जिसु लागत है नही चोर ॥१॥
    Har ḏẖan banjahu har ḏẖan sancẖahu jis lāgaṯ hai nahī cẖor. ||1||
    Deal only in the wealth of the Lord, and gather only the wealth of the Lord. No thief can ever steal it. ||1||

    ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਮੋਰ ਬੋਲਤ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਸੁਨਿ ਘਨਿਹਰ ਕੀ ਘੋਰ ॥੨॥
    चात्रिक मोर बोलत दिनु राती सुनि घनिहर की घोर ॥२॥
    Cẖāṯrik mor bolaṯ ḏin rāṯī sun gẖanihar kī gẖor. ||2||
    The rain-birds and the peacocks sing day and night, hearing the thunder in the clouds. ||2||

    ਜੋ ਬੋਲਤ ਹੈ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਮੀਨ ਪੰਖੇਰੂ ਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪਤ ਹੈ ਨਹੀ ਹੋਰ ॥੩॥
    जो बोलत है म्रिग मीन पंखेरू सु बिनु हरि जापत है नही होर ॥३॥
    Jo bolaṯ hai marig mīn pankẖerū so bin har jāpaṯ hai nahī hor. ||3||
    Whatever the deer, the fish and the birds sing, they chant to the Lord, and no other. ||3||

    ਨਾਨਕ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਗਾਈ ਛੂਟਿ ਗਇਓ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਸਭ ਸੋਰ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥
    नानक जन हरि कीरति गाई छूटि गइओ जम का सभ सोर ॥४॥१॥८॥
    Nānak jan har kīraṯ gā▫ī cẖẖūt ga▫i▫o jam kā sabẖ sor. ||4||1||8||
    Servant Nanak sings the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises; the sound and fury of Death has totally gone away. ||4||1||8||

    Guru Granth Sahib Page 1265

    Har Jan Bolat Sriram Nama-Bhai Harjinder Singh-Naad - YouTube
     
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  6. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I don't think any specific one is what I feel the most as I would go for more than 1 option and it would vary from time and situation.
    Then again, I try not to look at anything from the negative aspects and always try to view the positive within the matter. I can always find some positive reasoning with all dilemnas and this would be what I would focus on. But this search for positive doesn't always become clear on first approach, therefore a typical reaction could be- OK, this is the pits or the worst possible time such and such could have happened, so let's think what advantage or good could come out of this!!- this would be a typical example of a reaction to some disaster.
    When it comes to blaming, I try very hard NOT to blame others even when it's obvious, but I look at my weakness for letting it get to this stage. By this I mean, others are not always entirley to blame as I could have taken steps not so to prevent their actions- as this would be in their control but I could have taken steps to not let it affect me,as a result of their actions. So if a negative situation affects me then I feel something could have been done by me for not letting it progress and bother me.

    Waheguru
    Lucky Singh
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Veerji

    good question, I think there comes a time when we need to shy away from what is idealistic and right and concentrate on what is realistic and fruitful.

    I am done with tomorrow, all I have is today, so right now, I would choose, and have chosen 'Up/down is being human and creator is neither partial nor vengeful'

    I did think about 'I am thankful for what I have versus be sorry for what is not perfect', but that does not encapsulate my thinking as well as the former. Truth is I am in no mood to accept, but also in no mood to blame anyone other than myself for my own problems, (of which if I am honest, are few and minimal),

    I think one has to accept that there is no magical miracle machine in the sky, everything we do, everything we think, has a knock on effect, there are also events beyond our control, if a madman breaks in and rapes my wife, we will have to live with and deal with that, I certainly would not start blaming Creator, or myself, but we would both certainly use our relationship with Creator to deal with the problem. Would we pray for forgiveness for the rapist, maybe visit him in jail, offer him a job when he came out? Absolutely not, that is the Christian way, We would see justice done, one way or another.

    There is a facet of Sikhism to guide us through all events in our life, I feel a lot of Sikhs seem to be using one facet designed to deal with one problem, for all problems, or for the wrong problem, We get angry when we should be calm, We are calm when we should be angry, we retaliate when we should be looking for olive branches, we offer peace when we should be unsheathing our sword. We meditate when we should be fighting, and we fight when we should be at peace, We all know what to do, but only understanding and enlightenment tell us when and in what circumstance and which facet to deploy.
     
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  8. Annie

    Annie
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    I need to find a reason for things that happen in ordr to keep my sanity. If I search enough, I can find some sort of positive side or at least a lesson in almost any situation.
     
  9. Archived_member15

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    My dear brother Harry,

    I ask that question all the time, who doesn't? Ultimately I place my trust in the Divine Will of God. Suffering is not without meaning.


    "...No hardship and loss is without some gain, and there is no harm that is wholly negative. Whoever has abandoned themselves and gone entirely out of themselves, for such a person nothing can be a cross, or pain or suffering, but for them all is bliss, joy and the heart’s delight and they will come and follow God truly. There are people who enjoy God in one way but not in another. They only want to possess God in one way of devotion and not in another. I will say no more about this, but it is nevertheless quite wrong. Whoever wants to receive God properly must receive him equally in all things, in oppression as in prosperity, in tears as in joy. Always and everywhere He is the same...If you wish that nothing should be far or remote from you, then join yourself to God, for then a thousand years will be like a single day. Thus I say that in God there is neither sadness, nor suffering, nor distress, and if you wish to be free of all distress and suffering, then turn to God and fix yourself in Him alone. It is certain that all your suffering comes from the fact that you do not turn to God and fix yourself in Him alone. The whole of human perfection is to respond in the same way to all things, not to be broken by adversity nor carried away by prosperity, nor to rejoice more in one thing than in another, nor to be frightened or grieved by one thing more than another. Real though the suffering is which in this way comes to the good person, everything which the good person suffers for the sake of God he or she endures in God and God suffers with them in their suffering. If our suffering is in God and God suffers with us, how then can suffering be grievous for us, when suffering loses its grievousness and our suffering is in God and is God? Just as God is Truth and wherever we find the truth we find our God, who is Truth, so too, in the same way exactly, when we find pure suffering in God and for God’s sake, we find God as our suffering. A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own..."



    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & priest





    "...Grace is from God, and works in the depth of the soul whose powers it employs. It is a light which issues forth to do service under the guidance of the Spirit. The Divine Light permeates the soul, and lifts it above the turmoil of temporal things to rest in God. The soul cannot progress except with the light which God has given it as a nuptial gift; love works the likeness of God into the soul. The peace, freedom and blessedness of all souls consist in their abiding in God's will. Towards this union with God for which it is created the soul strives perpetually..."



    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & priest





    "...The most powerful form of prayer, and the one which can virtually gain all things and which is the worthiest work of all, is that which flows from a free mind. The freer the mind is, the more powerful and worthy, the more useful, praiseworthy and perfect the prayer and the work become. A free mind can achieve all things. But what is a free mind? A free mind is one which is untroubled and unfettered by anything, which has not bound its best part to any particular manner of being or devotion and which does not seek its own interest in anything but is always immersed in God’s most precious will, having gone out of what is its own..."



    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & priest
     
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  10. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Vouthon ji thanks for the quotes kaurhug from,
    Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & priest

    What a brilliant mind?

    Is there a book or other reference to read more of the Priest's work specially online or the Internet?

    Regards.
     
  11. Archived_member15

    Archived_member15
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    My dear brother Ambarsaria kaurhug

    I agree Eckhart had a brilliant mind!

    There are variety of sources you could check up on to learn more about the Master Eckhart and his teachings.

    The best translations of some of his works I know of is:

    Meister Eckhart: The Essential Sermons, Commentaries, Treatises and Defense (Classics of Western Spirituality)by Edmund Colledge and Bernard McGinn published by Paulist press, you can buy it here off Amazon: Amazon.com: Meister Eckhart: The Essential Sermons, Commentaries, Treatises and Defense (Classics of Western Spirituality) (9780809123704): Meister Eckhart, Edmund Colledge, Bernard McGinn, Houston Smith: Books


    A good online source is "The Eckhart Society": http://www.eckhartsociety.org/

    Its an academic organisation dedicated to the study of Eckhart's mysticism and thought. The authors write, "...The Eckhart Society is dedicated to the study and promotion of the principles and teachings of Meister Eckhart, a medieval theologian, philosopher and mystic. The Society is committed to the highest possible standards in scholarship and spirituality – which was also the goal of the Meister. It welcomes all, no matter of what faith or none, to whom Meister Eckhart is of interest. It publishes a Review and a series of newsletters. There is a three day annual Conference with speakers drawn from amongst the foremost scholars in Eckhart studies as well as those from related disciplines and other religions..."

    You can find some quotes from Eckhart's writings on wikiquote: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Meister_Eckhart

    If you type his name into google you will find a plethora of articles about Him from people as diverse as Buddhists, Hindus, Christians etc.

    I believe that he is particularly popular, outside the Catholic Church, with Buddhists. The founders of the Eckhart Society were Protestant Christians who were going to convert to Mahayana Buddhism when their spiritual teacher told them to go and read Eckhart instead of seeking another religion, and they subsequently converted to Catholicism - because they found within Christianity in the person of Eckhart what they'd been seeking outside it.

    Have you heard of Eknath Easwaran? He was a famous Hindu spiritual teacher of the 20th century. In his books he quotes copiously from Eckhart, who was his favourite Western mystic.

    You can some of his books online, for example "Original Goodness": http://www.cehs.wright.edu/resources/forms_and_things/classnotes/original_goodness.pdf

    Aldous Huxley, in his great book The Perrenial Philosophy, published in 1945, quotes many times from Eckhart (I recommend buying this one): Amazon.com: The Perennial Philosophy (Perennial Classics) (9780060570583): Aldous Huxley: Books

    Evelyn Underhill, an Anglo-Catholic mystic who died in 1941, published an absolutely fantastic book on mysticism in 1910 called: "Mysticism - A Study in the Nature and Development of Spiritual Conciousness" in which she devotes many of her pages to Eckhart and quotes from his writings, you can it for free online here:

    http://www.christianmystics.com/Ebooks/Mysticism_Study_Nature_Development/mysticism.pdf

    Failing all this just type his name into google and you'll get plenty of material on Him! :grinningkudi:

    Speaking of the great Catholic mystic Eckhart, Eknath Easwaran wrote:


    "...These words of Meister Eckhart, addressed to ordinary people in a quiet German-speaking town almost seven hundred years ago, testify to a discovery about the nature of the human spirit as revolutionary as Einstein’s theories about the nature of the universe. If truly understood, that discovery would transform the world we live in at least as radically as Einstein’s theories changed the world of science. “We have grasped the mystery of the atom,” General Omar Bradley once said, “and rejected the Sermon on the Mount…Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.” If we could grasp the mystery of Eckhart’s “uncreated light in the soul” – surely no more abstruse than relativity! – the transformation in our thinking would set our world right side up....“Its fruits will be God-nature!” What promise could be more revolutionary? Yet Eckhart, like other great mystics of the Catholic Church before and after him, does no more than assure us of his personal experience. The seed is there, and the ground is fertile. Nothing is required but diligent gardening to bring into existence the God-tree: a life that proclaims the original goodness in all creation..."


    - Eknath Easwaran (1910 – 1999), Indian Hindu mystic



    So yes I agree - Eckhart is fascinating! kaurhug
     
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  12. Archived_member15

    Archived_member15
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    Here are some small quotes from Eckhart and a link to the books they are from - check them out!

    God Is Everywhere
    "One who truly has God will have Him in all places, in the streets and in the world, no less than in the church."
    (Meister Eckhart, from Whom God Hid Nothing)

    A Book about God
    "Every creature is full of God and a book about God."
    (The Reinvention of Work by Matthew Fox)

    Spiritual Transformation
    "A person works in a stable.
    That person has a breakthrough.
    What does he do?
    He returns to work in the stable."
    (Meditations with Meister Eckhart by Matthew Fox)

    What God Expects of You
    "God expects but one thing of you, and that is that you should come out of yourself in so far as you are a created being and let God be in you."
    (The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley)

    Why We Miss God
    "God is at home in us, but we are abroad."
    (Call to Purpose by Richard Solly)


    The Inward Work
    "The outward work can never be small if the inward one is great, and the outward work can never be great or good if the inward is small or of little worth."

    (The Reinvention of Work by Matthew Fox)

    The Underground River
    "God is a great underground river that no one can dam up and no one can stop."
    (Wrestling with the Prophets by Matthew Fox)

    God Is Still at Work Creating
    "God is creating the entire universe, fully and totally, in the present now."
    (Wrestling with the Prophets by Matthew Fox)

    Do Justice
    "If you want to discover who you are, do justice engaging fully in order to change things."
    (Earth Story Sacred Story by James Conlon)

    Let Go of God
    "In order to find God, we must let God go.
    There above the mind, God shines."
    (Why Not be a Mystic? by Frank Tuoti)


    No Bad Luck
    "However, I have never had bad luck. This is because I live with God and always feel that what He does is for the best. Whatever God sends me, be it pleasant or unpleasant, I accept with a grateful heart. That is why I have never had bad luck."
    (The Inner Treasure by Jonathan Star)
     
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  13. Archived_member15

    Archived_member15
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    Interestingly enough the Institute of Sikh Studies, Chandigarh speaks of Eckhart, saying of him:


    "....One of the most lucid prophetic precursors of the spiritual foundations of democratic religion was Meister Eckhart (1260-1328), the great Dominican mystic of the Rhineland in Germany. During the twilight of the Middle Ages [...] Eckhart emerged in the Rhineland, speaking in the great cathedrals of Cologne and Strasbourg, not in the Latin of the scholastics or the French of the aristocracy, but in the simple vernacular German of the common people of his time. Using plain words and ordinary idiom, Eckhart preached a lofty democratic vision of God as ‘Pure Being’ and ‘Pure Unity’ in the universal common ground of every human soul. We are all one and equally grounded in God, Eckhart argued. The problem is that we don’t realise it, because our perception of the truth is obstructed by our own egocentric attachments and illusions. According to Eckhart, the task of spiritual awakening for every person is the same — only let go of your egocentric attachments, and your true nature of oneness with all people in God will thereby be illuminated..."
     
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  14. Archived_member15

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    "...If indeed a man thinks he will get more of God by meditation, by devotion, by ectasies or by special infusion of grace than by the fireside or in the stable - that is nothing but taking God, wrapping a cloak around his head and shoving him under a bench...If you are wrapped up in an ecstatic experience and hear that a hungry person is at the door, leave behind your rapture and go and prepare some soup for him...If a person were in such a rapturous state as St. Paul once entered, and he knew of a sick man who wanted a cup of soup, it would be far better to withdraw from the rapture for love’s sake and serve him who is in need...Do not cling to the symbols, but get to the inner truth..."

    - Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic Mystic & priest


     
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  15. aristotle

    aristotle
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    As a part of my Indian upbringing I was always spiritually fed about the Karma theory, after lives and previous lives. But now when I have taken up Science as my profession and reflected about the normal happenings around, the whole concept seems so naive to me ..
    I would just like to quote from Einstein..
    " I believe in God, If by the word 'God' you mean the embodiment of physical laws of nature .. "
    :interestedsingh:
     
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    #14 aristotle, Mar 31, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  16. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    aristotle ji thanks for your post. One comment,
    How about the following,

    Is it in line with what Einestein says other than the focus on Physical? As I understand it, such is one of the fundamental teachings in SGGS.

    Sat Sri Akal.


     
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  17. aristotle

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    That depends on how you interpret it.
    * Some people think reading religious texts is the only way to gain the 'eternal' knowledge, they dub all other ways to have knowledge as 'physical'(=non-eternal).
    * While for some, dissecting the mysteries of nature is the 'eternal' knowledge.
    * Some combine both..
    ==But the big thing as a Sikh(=sisya=student), is to keep learning==
     
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  18. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Aristotle ji one comment.
    SGGS has this as a common theme as to the in-finiteness of the creator and so to the in-finiteness of learning and hence learning all the time! The issue many of our Sikh brothers and sisters have is that they want to get there in a hurry without regard to how many been before us that we are part of and how many past us that we would be part of. There is no end to this either, evolved learning or reality of how it has been unfolding for ever and will continue to do so needs to be recognized for living in consonance with the present and every moment.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. aristotle

    aristotle
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    The Creator is described in the Gurbani as 'Apaar' (or the one who cannot be fully known or described) and so is his(?) creation.
    This fact does not deter the Gurus and Saints whose hymns are included in the Guru Granth Sahib, to sing the praises of the creator.
    Infinity is not 'void', it is instead 'all pervading'. This is a novel concept of the Gurbani. Gurbani does not vainly boast of 'describing' the Lord as do the other religious texts, it instead encourages to dwelve into the infinity and become one with the creator.
    It is more of a realisation than a description, I think. Gurbani is thus the perfect spiritual meal for my scientific mind.
     
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  20. Diyelasi Tali

    Diyelasi Tali United States
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    I chose "Up/down is being human and creator is neither partial nor vengeful." because of the countless horrific scenes that I dealt with as a Police Officer for so many years. I have arrived at the location of a violent crime and saw brother Officers shaking their heads and saying "There can't be a God, he wouldn't let something like this happen to innocent people..." As a Crime Scene Photographer for eight years and a Child Sexual Abuse Investigator for another eight, I had to develop some sort of explanation for man's inhumanity to his fellow man as a coping mechanism. I found comfort in telling myself that it wasn't a vengeful God behind what had happened, no matter how "good" or "bad" the victim was. I never searched deeper for further answers...just shook it off and went on to the next call.
     
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  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Diyelasiji

    Creator gives us full reign to carry out our actions I believe. The laws of nature, of man, Creation are respected by Creator I also believe.

    I note you are part Red Indian, my wife has told me many fascinating stories about the Red Indians and their respect for Creation. (wife is the brains in our marriage :))
     
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