Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Are they leading Sikhs away from the Guru?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all!

    Some smart preachers suggest an exercise of Naam Simran. They ask to repeat the word 'Wahe' while inhaling and 'Guru' while exhaling.
    I cannot find an instance where the true Gurus have mentioned this technique.
    Are these preachers leading seekers away from true Sikhi? Please express your views.

    Balbir Singh
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Sherab

    Sherab
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    20
    Is is just another way to do Naam Simran.

    Why does it matter how it is done if your mind is focusing on God in a Sikh manner?

    Naam Simran could even be twirling two swords in each hand in combat - One hand for Wahe, and the other for Guru.

    I don;t think it matters at all how you do it - It just matters where the mind is.
     
  4. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sherab Jee!

    Quote "Naam Simran could even be twirling two swords in each hand in combat - One hand for Wahe, and the other for Guru.
    I don;t think it matters at all how you do it - It just matters where the mind is."

    Is this the way of Simran that the true Gurus suggested? Through the mouth one speaks 'Waheguru' That Gurdev never suggested while his hands twirl swords but his mind is somewhere else.


    Balbir Singh
     
  5. Sherab

    Sherab
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    20
    Ang 326 of SGGS -

    किरपा करि कै नामु द्रिड़ाई ॥
    हरि हरि बासु सुगंध बसाई ॥५॥

    In His Mercy, He implants the Naam within us;
    inhale deeply the sweet aroma and fragrance of the Lord, Har, Har. ||5||

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Of course this can be taken to mean inhale the fragrance of the Lord as immersing your mind in love for him - Inhaling the Lord's love into us. Also, though, on a physical level - it can mean inhaling while syaing "wahe".

    As for the exhalation -

    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਸਖਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਹਮਰੀ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    (Ang 10)

    ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ॥
    ਜਿਸ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ਹੈ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
    ਸਾਹਿ ਸਾਹਿ ਤੁਝੁ ਸੰਮਲਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਸਾਰੇਉ ॥
    ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਸਫਲੁ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥

    (ang 16, 18, 20 and 53, respectively)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    While it is not mentioned specfically, i think there is evidence that it is a GOOD, HELPFUl technique for Naam Simran.

    Balbir Singh ji,
    Do you think that just because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not tell us the True Naam of the Lord, that it is not to be found, or if it is found, is false because it is not within the SGGS?

    ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਾਨੁ ॥


     
    #4 Sherab, Nov 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  6. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    54

    Dear Balbir Singh ji


    Sat Sri Akal!!



    I think almost all the preacher recommend so !

    I dont think they are misleading somebody on purpose , actually they just tell other what they know themselves

    I dont think calling the creater with particular fancy name is of any concern as all the names are his own after all

    But about naam simran I myself dont know much so cant say whethr they are misleading or not


    Jatinder Singh
     
  7. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sherab Jee!

    Thanks for referring the wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev.
    Also, I feel sorry for the wrong translations.

    ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਈ ॥
    किरपा करि कै नामु द्रिड़ाई ॥
    "kirpaa kar kai naam darirhaa-ee."
    By doing clemency establishes Naam.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਸੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ਬਸਾਈ ॥੫॥
    हरि हरि बासु सुगंध बसाई ॥५॥
    "har har baas suganDh basaa-ee." ||5|| SGGS Ang 326-16.
    Putting up Hari Hari settles the pleasant aroma.

    I do not know which words from the referred Vaaks one can translate inhale and exhale.

    **************

    ਸਾਹਿ ਸਾਹਿ ਤੁਝੁ ਸੰਮਲਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਸਾਰੇਉ ॥
    साहि साहि तुझु समला कदे न विसारेउ ॥
    "saahi saahi tujh sammlaa kaday na visaaray O. 20-6.
    With each breath completing you, HE never forgets.

    I feel God never forgets anyone.
    We forget HIM when we are, for example, sometime engaged with the color, style and look of a Patkaa.

    **************

    ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਸਫਲੁ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥
    सासि गिरासि न विसरै सफलु मूरति गुरु आपि ॥
    "saas giraas na visrai safal moorat gur aap." SGGS Ang 53-3.
    Breath, morsel does not forget the successful, established Guru Himself.

    Does any of the above Vaaks suggest one to speak 'Waahi' while inhaling and 'Guru' while exhaling?

    Quote "Do you think that just because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not tell us the True Naam of the Lord, that it is not to be found, or if it is found, is false because it is not within the SGGS?"
    They surprise me, who feel they breathe and can influence this domain of God. I also feel sorry for them when I see them departing from the word 'Guru' by exhaling.


    Balbir Singh
     
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    I think the atheists are better off than us because they don't have to worry about translations.
     
  9. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    did SatGuru ever say to use internet forums to discuss gurbani? if not, then why are you here? :D

    my point being that Gurbani shows us how to reach God. it is not a "do and don't" manual. why does it matter how people breathe when they do simran? some people find that breathing in certain patterns helps them to focus on the Naam itself. if this is true, why would you want to discourage them? :)
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Excellent reply.
     
  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    Balbir Singh Ji,

    Why was Sri Granth ever written at all. It must serve some purpose. If preachers today use Gurbani verses in SGGS as a basis of teaching, one should honour their effort. I see nothing wrong in the preachers who use their talents to earn a livelihood.
     
  12. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all!

    The topic is if they are leading Sikhs away from the Guru. Let us remain with it.
    Perhaps somebody can provide one sentence from the true Gurus where they have suggested this technique of Naam Simran. It is namely speaking the word 'Waahe' while inhaling and speaking the word 'Guru' while exhaling.
    I will be grateful.

    I feel preachers may try in frustration the techniques their mind suggests if they are not capable to understand true Guru's instructions.

    **************

    The most funny part of this technique by the preachers is that they blow out the word 'Guru' through their speech and hope to find the true Guru back though.

    **************

    In my observation, the conscious level of Sikhs is at a level these days where any preacher can convince them to go for rituals that the true Gurus never suggested. It is pity.


    Balbir Singh
     
  13. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28

    ok, first explain how exactly you feel this technique leads people away from Guru... don't just say you can't find it in gurbani. tell me exactly how it is detremental.

    thanks!
     
  14. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

    God is within and nearest. With God's Grace one receives the true Sabad Guru. The journey begins toward God.
    It is not that one begins to throw out 'Guru' by speaking it while exhaling. The Guru is not to spit out.

    **************

    Those who are blessed with the true Naam Simran do not waste life in such rituals.

    Balbir Singh
     
  15. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    hmm... to me the idea that exhaling = "spiting out guru" seems like ritual. worrying about exactly how people do simran seems like ritual. searching through gurbani to try to find out how or how not to physically say the word "waheguru" seems like ritual. :)


    no one is "spitting out" anything except air here. why not just let people recite god's name in the manner they prefer and simply be happy they're doing it at all?
     
  16. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    all that matters is your "oneness" with God...

    how do you achieve it - simran, good deeds and sadh sangat

    how do you simran - bhai dhanna di it on a stone and achieved one ness...were the pandits misleading them....yes maybe...but did he reach the goal...yes..because within, bhai dhanna was focused on the objective and not the mean.
     
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    Balbir Singh Ji - Say Sat Sri Akaal

    Why would you want to say Sat Sri Akaal if spoken words are going to lead you away from the True Guru ? Every post of yours say Sat Sri Akaal - do you see my point ?

    Kelly - she has a good sense of expression - and that's really good. As far as I am concerned, the True Guru is always with us. It is for the individual to feel Guru's proximity with oneself - not talking about physical body but the inner self which brings out the genuine expressions onto the outer.

    Bhagat Namdev says:

    My mind
    Measures the
    Ultimate
    Destination.

    My tongue
    Chanting
    Cuts
    My sins.

    The
    Noose of Death
    Hangs
    No more.

    Lineage
    Caste
    Gender
    Meaningless.

    Days
    Nights
    Absorbed
    In the One.

    I stitch
    I sew.
    Dyed
    In Truth.

    Simran
    The golden needle
    Truthful Living
    The silver thread
    Attaches me
    To the One.
     
  18. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

    Quote "hmm... to me the idea that exhaling = "spiting out guru" seems like ritual."
    Those who are used to rituals cannot get rid of the idea of rituals.

    Quote "worrying about exactly how people do simran seems like ritual."
    It seems some have started worrying.

    Quote "searching through gurbani to try to find out how or how not to physically say the word "waheguru" seems like ritual."
    Gurbaanee does not say to repeat the word 'Waheguru'. Strange, many have developed styles to say it.

    Quote "no one is "spitting out" anything except air here."
    I also feel this is a useless practice.

    Quote "why not just let people recite god's name in the manner they prefer and simply be happy they're doing it at all?"
    People reciting true God's Naam do not worry that their herd will become smaller.

    **************

    Quote from Amarsanghera Jee "all that matters is your "oneness" with God..."
    All that matters is the awareness with God. Oneness with God is overall.

    Quote "how do you achieve it - simran, good deeds and sadh sangat."
    Those who have realized Truth say the order is Sadhu Sangat, receiving Naam and doing Simran. Good deeds are the results of it.

    Quote "how do you simran - bhai dhanna di it on a stone and achieved one ness...were the pandits misleading them....yes maybe...but did he reach the goal...yes..because within, bhai dhanna was focused on the objective and not the mean."
    Being Dhanna may be blissful than to follow a preacher or a pandit.

    **************

    Quote from Begum Jee "Why would you want to say Sat Sri Akaal if spoken words are going to lead you away from the True Guru ? Every post of yours say Sat Sri Akaal - do you see my point ?"
    Life is worth to say 'Sat' (Truth), 'Sri' and 'Akaal'.
    Please do not make life unworthy with fake practices.

    Quote "As far as I am concerned, the True Guru is always with us."
    Be happy and live with Him. Please do not throw Him out separating from Him while exhaling.

    **************

    With true Naam Simran the Sabad Guru accompanies and leads one inwardly toward God residing within everybody.


    Balbir Singh
     
  19. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    are you suggesting that reciting "waheguru" is NOT naam simran?

    what exactly is this secret true name of god that only you seem to know???
     
  20. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Kelly_Kaur Jee!

    Waheguru is the praise of the Sabad Guru. Using this word without knowing the Sabad Guru is like praising sweetness without knowing the Sugar.
    Those, who know true Naam Simran, experience the Guru's words exactly as Truth. No room left there for misunderstanding or misinterpreting Gurbaanee.
    By the Grace of God one receives True Naam through the Sat Guroo. It remains secret till one receives it. It remains secret even after that as this is the bridge between an individual and God within. Scientists have still not developed any instrument to record all its results, specially those at conscious levels.


    Balbir Singh
     
  21. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    do you have any gurbani source for this idea? it is new to me.
     

Share This Page