Ardas Over Food = Purification Like Halal?

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Tony Ji,

The answer to the above question is BIG NO. To know this one has to know how Halal meat is produced?

An animal or poultry has to be slaughtered in a ritual way known as Zibah.

All the flowing blood (al- An`am 6:145) must be drained out of the carcass, as blood is forbidden.

Swine flesh is also forbidden, and it is repeated in few other places in the Qur`an.

Forbidden is an animal that has been killed by strangling or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall.

Neck of the animal is cut slowly with a sharp knife and juglar veins are bled as blood has to be drained our which is not permissable, while Kalma is being read.-----al-Maida 5:3 Quran & al- An`am 6:145

Sabd Guru on Halal​

It is the cruel procedure of procuring “Halal Meat”, which has been ridiculed and the act has been replaced by virtue, as referred in AGGS.

ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.

Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Quran.-----Guru Nanak, Raag, Majh, AGGS, Page, 140-18

ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Māraṇ pāhi harām meh ho¬ė halāl na jā¬ė.

By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.

ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥

Pahilā sacẖ halāl ḏu¬ė ṯījā kẖair kẖuḏā¬ė.

Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 141-2 & 4

ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਹਕਿ ਜਾਇ ॥

Ho¬ė halāl lagai hak jā¬ė.

One who is slaughtered with the knife of Truth (Sharpened on the word and sheathed by good qualities, will be acceptable to Akal Purkh.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 956-3

ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ ॥

Hak halāl bakẖorahu kẖāṇā.

Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1084-7

ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥

Joṯ sarūp anāhaṯ lāgī kaho halāl ki¬ā kī¬ā.

The light gets absorbed in the Immortal Divine Essence. What then have thou slaughtered according to the code? -----Bhagat Kabir, Raag Parbhati, AGGS, Page, 1350-7

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥

Kabīr jorī kī¬ė julam hai kahṯā nā¬o halāl.

Kabir, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1374-11

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥

Kabīr jī¬a jo māreh jor kar kahṯė heh jo halāl.

Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1375-5


Cordially,
Virinder S. Grewal

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh Ji,
You wrote:
<<<<<<yeah the food is in the container, but the person who brought the cow dung with there bare hands and then started cooking the food did not use soap to wash there hands, as they didn't have soap back then. Also people had servants that cooked the food so there is even a bigger possibility that the hands werent even washed at all after touching the cow dung.<<<<<<<<<<<<

About what period are you referring to....because about 530 Years ago..GURU NANAK JI had SOAP...Deh SABOON leaheah uh thoyeh (JAJPJI). Guru Nanak ji was a Farmer..and He certainly used/handled Cow DUNG....and I will Never beleive He never used SOAP - SABOON to wash His Hands !! Guur Ji wouldnt be talking about SABOON if it wasnt that common a thing.....:ice::ice:

See if I had done my Japji Sahib in the morning I would have know that. As that speaks about Guru Sahib. I was talking about regular folks in that time and even in the 1800 soap was not used as much as you think. Water itself was seen as way to clean the hands and it was good enough. Speaking about Punjab.

It's now some people Naukra jaada kar dai they forgot where they came from and ate their food without washing with soap. Stay clean and be aware of your food in ALL placeS.

 

[spnadmin]

Virinder ji

Thank you -- but all I was trying to do is get people back to the thread topic. It isn't working. But everyone is in such a good mood that I won't be heavy handed unless another forum member tells me I am a hypocrite. (In this case I am being a hypocrite, it is true.)

On a related topic -- because of this thread I did some research on cow dung and urine within the Brahmin tradition (ancient and modern). Somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered that cow dung has been considered a purifying substance. Guru Nanak, in referring to spreading cow dung around the Brahmin's cooking area, was providing an historically correct account of a practice related to ritual purification. Back to the Internet research -- I found an amazing article -- an eye opener -- relating the consumption of cow dung and urine to the Law of Manu. Both are believed to purify. If there is any interest, and with Randip's permission, I will post it.

 

[spnadmin]

I think though that the original question was pretty much answered and so we are having a pleasant chat.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAd Ji,
You are perfectly right that Cow Urine and Dung is considered "holy" ( as well as the Holy Cow).
It is also considered a Healthy Drink...recently it was hot news item..Bottled Cow-Cola being introduced in India as the latest craze. IN MALAYSIA there are Specialized Stores that carry this item..and i will tell you the stuff is comparatively 10 times more expensive than real Cola. I usually take my "foreign" visitors to such stores to show them. Naturally this is "imported"...maybe because Indian Cows are more holier...being from the Good old Mother Country !!. Did you also know that the Indian PM..Morarji Desai was an avid Human Urine Drinker...a warm glass of ones urine is a perfect get-upper..according to many Hindus. Btw MY hindu neighbour...consecrated his new mansion recently...two cows were brought in a parade by the Brahmin priests...and taken with fanfare through out the house...bedrooms, rooms, kitchens, every room..and every few steps the cow stood and dutifully ****ed/dunged on the floor and moved on..purifying as it went...every one followed her in a silent procession...until she was lowered into the swimming pool...but soemhow she didnt want to do her business in the water...so the Brahmin did ***** and she complied...and was pulled out..dried up with a brand new towel..and escorted out.
I think if the bottled stuff becoems popular..who knows..they may introduce Fresh Cow Urine Bars.....where there are rows of Holy Cows lined up..and customers can just pay up..and take the Fresh Urine gushing out frothy and all like the Germans do with Lager Beer...Verily india takes the Cake for being ????
I woudl be interested in your article from Mannu laws..but imho i will not be surprised much. If Randip Ji agrees put it up. (General knowledge)....BTW..how this Thread has wandered !!!

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Tony Ji,

Please put up that article as would like to know about it.

Thanks.

Virinder

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

I will put it up with Randip's OK -- the article overlaps with what you reported. But it adds information from ancient practices and the Law of Manu. There is one thing at this point that may be interesting to add to your current message however. Gypsies if I am not mistaken also drink urine. What strikes me about that is that Gypsies are descendants of ancient pre-Aryan Indian who migrated, and still do migrate, back and forth into Europe. There is still scientific controversy as to where exactly they derive from.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Cow Urine saves bees from vanishing.

YouTube - New Uses for Cow Urine

New Uses for Cow Urine
NCHOR:
Researchers in India are suggesting that cow urine can save bees from diseases. And experiments conducted so far are producing very promising results. Let's take a closer look...
STORY: Scientists in Uttarakhand, India use cow urine to help bees ward off microbial diseases, during the rearing process.
Researchers at the Govind Ballabh Pant University of Agriculture & Technology have explored the efficacy of cow urine and are using it extensively while breeding honeybees.
Ruchira Tiwari, a researcher at the university, has been involved in this field of research for three years now.
[Ruchira Tiwari, Researcher]:
"We have used cow urine and seen that within seven to eight days the breed becomes healthy. We have seen this through our research. The workers work as cleaners and the queen bee lays eggs. After the urine is sprayed on them, the workers start working more efficiently and then take out unhealthy larva from the eggshe... more

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Thanks Teji Ji,

No comments.

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[Archived_member7]

So we should soon have the best brands like McDowells, Chivas Regal, BLUE LABEL etc come up with

McUrinowells, Cowas Urinal, Yellow Label, :happy:

 

[BhagatSingh]

The topic of the thread concerns whether Ardas over food prepared for langar is equivalant to Halal of food for Muslims. We are drifting badly. aad002

Why do we even do ardas over food?

 

[spnadmin]

Why do we even do ardas over food?

Answer given in earliest comments/posts in the thread.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Answer given in earliest comments/posts in the thread.

I meant why do they read the whole ardaas on the food if they do so?
You don't have to read the ardas to thank God.

And then what prayers are offered during the slaughter of animal? Why?

 

[spnadmin]

I meant why do they read the whole ardaas on the food if they do so?
You don't have to read the ardas to thank God.

And then what prayers are offered during the slaughter of animal? Why?

BhagatSingh ji

There are two times I am aware that ardaas is given in relation to food. And I could be wrong but ardaas is given. Ardass is not done on food -- as in the blessing of fish is done in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Sardinia once a year in the spring by local holy men.

Ardaas is given as a prayer at home before the evening meal. Ardaas is given in gurdwara for the langar. Now I don't understand why you are struggling with this concept. Yes there are many ways to thank God. IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT SIKHS GIVE ARDAAS! If a Sikh wants to give or say a different kind of prayer, well, there are no ardaas cops to stop him/her, no Sikh mullahs who will issue arrest warrants. At least there are not any Sikh ardaas cops as of yet or that I know of. That is just what Sikhs do because we are Sikhs who are keeping Sikh traditions.

Why do Bantu tribesmen tattoo their bodies as part of initiation a men? Why do Orthodox Christians celebrate Easter one week later than Roman Catholics? Why do a Navaho woman's brothers prepare her body and bury her when she dies, rather than her sisters? Why do Tibetan monks use prayer wheels as an aid to meditation? They each have their own special explanations for why they have these traditions. They do it because they do it.

Now what are you talking about when you say "prayers offered during the slaughter of an animal." Again, Muslims and some Christian sects say prayers during the slaughter of an animal. Jews do not say prayers during the slaughter of an animal (according to a local rabinnical college where I checked on this). Do Sikhs say prayers during the slaughter of an animal? If they do -- this is new one for me. Do Nihangs say prayers when they jatka a goat? Someone else will have to answer.

P/S Don't Sikhs who eat meat pick it up at the market?

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Tony Ji,

Few weeks ago there was vedio of a Nihang Singh shown slaughtering a goat in the Gurudwara and later taking the head in front of AGGS in a platter. You can expect these *** things from Bhang eating Sikhs against the Sikh tenets. I am not sure if this is what you want to say. It comes close to sect bashing virinder ji. The bhang aspects of Nihang practice have died down a lot in recent times, I think since the last two jathedars. Also the jatka of goats is part of the Nihang way of life. aad0002

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[BhagatSingh]

Do Nihangs say prayers when they jatka a goat?

They say stuff with teh word God in it. So do muslims when "halaling" the animal.

What I mean is, we have to look at what each party is saying before we conclude taht x = y.
If muslims are thanking God in there prayer ,then halal + prayer = food + ardas (in the context we are apeaking in).

 

[spnadmin]

They say stuff with teh word God in it. So do muslims when "halaling" the animal.

What I mean is, we have to look at what each party is saying before we conclude taht x = y.
If muslims are thanking God in there prayer ,then halal + prayer = food + ardas (in the context we are apeaking in).

Bhagat ji

That is where then the error lies. Muslims are not thanking God when saying Allah Akbar during Halal slaughter of animals. They are remembering the sacrifice of Abraham during Halal. They are also purifying the meat as a matter of how they slaughter the animal -- slow, draining all the blood out. The suffering is what purifies.

The Nihang slaughters a goat with one swipe. Quickly. That is in fact the implied meaning of jatkha -- it is a swift clean blow.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat ji

That is where then the error lies. Muslims are not thanking God when saying Allah Akbar during Halal slaughter of animals. They are remembering the sacrifice of Abraham during Halal. They are also purifying the meat as a matter of how they slaughter the animal -- slow, draining all the blood out. The suffering is what purifies.

The Nihang slaughters a goat with one swipe. Quickly. That is in fact the implied meaning of jatkha -- it is a swift clean blow.

yes Nihangs do that. but they say something.

Um Allah HU akbar means God is great, this is similar to what Nihangs say, right? but Muslims say more things. We need to find out what they are. Do they remember Abraham? I am gona doubt it till I find the exact translation.
They technically do "purify" the meat when they drain the blood. Their reasoning is that blood contains urea which is toxic. This thought is modern though. But I guess suffering = purification is what they believed before.

Anyway, if what you say is true then no, halal + prayers does not = food + ardaas.
But its like what Singh ji is saying that you should be picking up the prashad even if it drops. Although he might do this out of respect, it is actually done because the parshad is enchanted. Similarly, my dad sprinkles water on me after he does paath because the water is enchanted. The ardaas and the paath before the ardas, enchanted the parshad. That's one reason. I doubt its because the parshad is purified... anyone wish to explain why people think it is purified??
of course, neither the parshad nor water is enchanted. They are plain water and parshad.
But I dont buy the "respect" argument. Firstly, its dirty when you pick it up and eat it, infected with God knows what! And secondly, where do you think its going to end up after it goes through your system.
idont buy the "double standard" argument either. There are people who don't eat restaurant food at all, and still eat parshad off the floor.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The Animal killing is SACRIFICE.
Commonly done in all cultures. Even HINDUS sacrifice Goats to the Goddess KALIMATA. These are JHATKA - killed with ONE STROKE..but still "SACRIFICIAL MEAT"...and thus not allowed for Khalsa Consumption.
I have seen Nepali Hindus slaughter Goats as a sacrifice to their Goddess KaliMata while on a tour of Nepal about 20 years ago. I cant recall what festival it was..but it was a huge gathering over a few days.
Long ago..Incas and all..used to have HUMAN SACRIFICE too. This was to PLEASE their GODS..to provide rain..good crops etc etc.
The Hallal Tradition is descended from the Sacrifice of ABRAHAM - Father of the Jews/Muslims/Christians.
The Jews call it KOSHER....
BTW Abraham was supposed to offer his SON as Sacrifice to GOD...but then God decided that a SHEEP woudl be quite OK ( Incidentally Abraham had brought along a SHEEP also ) So the Sheep was slaughtered in GODS NAME and burnt as an OFFERING.
The Islamic Celebration of ID AL ADHA..Festival of Sacrifice is annually held in Remebrance of Abraham's sacrifice. Hundreds of thousands of Cows/goats/camels/sheep...and chickens are ritually slaughtered each year on this Day....its called DAY OF SACRIFICE.
Hallal kalma are NOT READ over FISH..sea Food (obviously as these are already DEAD ) and also over other FOODs..like daal atta roti sabzee pizza mcdonalds...cheece cakes !!!
Thus this proves that LIVING ANIMAL is necessary...

Ardass and Grace of the christians is Similar...its READ during ALL MEALS...no distinction made between daal roti or chicken massalla. Thus this is THANKSGIVING...and NOT "SACRIFICE".:happy:

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

The comment below tends to get mixed up.....

yes Nihangs do that. but they say something.

Nihangs are a sect and so why generalize from what Nihangs do to "Sikhs" as a group. The logical fallacy of doing this is the undistributed middle described by
Aristotle. You probably already know this and want to see if we are on our toes.

Um Allah HU akbar means God is great, this is similar to what Nihangs say, right?

It doesn't matter whether it is similar or not because Nihangs' rituals are not relevant to all other Sikhs.

but Muslims say more things. We need to find out what they are. You can look it up.


Do they remember Abraham? They do and consider themselves children of Abraham -- in fact the offspring of his relationship with Hagar and their child Ismail. You can look that up also.

I am gona doubt it till I find the exact translation. The translation will not help you understand the connection to Abraham.

They technically do "purify" the meat when they drain the blood. Their reasoning is that blood contains urea which is toxic. This thought is modern though. But I guess suffering = purification is what they believed before.

Thank you -- the animal suffers - and shock and pain actually introduce high levels of enzymes into the meat which some consider harmful to humans. But that is also a digression.

Anyway, if what you say is true then no, halal + prayers does not = food + ardaas.

----------------------------------------------
But its like what Singh ji is saying that you should be picking up the prashad even if it drops. Although he might do this out of respect, it is actually done because the parshad is enchanted. We have moved on from this point.

Similarly, my dad sprinkles water on me after he does paath because the water is enchanted. I think I know why.

The ardaas and the paath before the ardas, enchanted the parshad. That's one reason. I doubt its because the parshad is purified... anyone wish to explain why people think it is purified??
of course, neither the parshad nor water is enchanted. They are plain water and parshad.
????????????

But I dont buy the "respect" argument. Firstly, its dirty when you pick it up and eat it, infected with God knows what! And secondly, where do you think its going to end up after it goes through your system. That is Singh's take on the matter. We need to move on.

idont buy the "double standard" argument either. There are people who don't eat restaurant food at all, and still eat parshad off the floor.

Some amritdhari will not eat food unless prepared by amritdhari. Some will not eat food prepared by a Muslim. I will not eat meat, fish, eggs or honey. None of this is based on science. it is about belief and belief does not have to be explained to someone who doesn't believe the same thing. To continue parsing things just means going around in circles.

I don't want to have to close yet another thread because the conversation has gone nowhere.

Could we return to the subject of ardaas, and halal, and whether they are the same thing-- unless everything that can be said has been said.