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General All Religions Are Doomed to Die

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Huck_Finn, Aug 3, 2009.

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  1. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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  3. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

    Sorry if I sound like a cheeky monkey, but some religions have been around for a long time and have not kicked over yet. So either they are creating a lorry load of trouble or they are leading many to their desired goal or even both.
     
  4. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Proverbs 24:26 :)
     
  5. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Then there is no confusion as to why I am a cheeky monkey. :idea:
     
  6. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    <<Sorry if I sound like a cheeky monkey, but some religions have been around for a long time and have not kicked over yet. So either they are creating a lorry load of trouble or they are leading many to their desired goal or even both.>>

    who knows :D

    for me

    the Psalm of David works :)
     
  7. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    BTW Proverbs 24:26 for those in a quandry is as follows from the Saint James Bible, and if you are like me, you don't get the connection either. :rolleyes: But then I never did.

    24: 26 Every man shall kiss his lips that giveth a right answer.

    And that is about the Judaeo-Christian experience. So let's get back to the thread topic.
     
  8. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    HuckFinn ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    Please define true path and markers with concrete examples and also who is a Seeker and what does he/she seeks and what is the way for him/her to obtain it.

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
  9. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    ok

    here we go Tejwant ji

    one qn at a time:

    <<Please define true path >>

    One that is not False :)

    and what is False ?

    one that someone tells you that is the shortest way :)

    i generally go by one analogy:

    Have you seen Birds migrate?

    the answers lies there. The answer to true path lies within each one of us. Its same yet different.

    Just like everyone travelling on a road has different experiences.

    <<and markers with concrete examples >>

    markers

    literally speaking that are the guiding lights, the indicators that you are on the right path. Can they be external, yes. are they internal , yes.

    Which one is more accurate?


    <<and also who is a Seeker and what does he/she seeks>>

    Each one of us. Some seek within, some seek outside.

    And what do we seek?

    isn't this an answer that each one answers for himself?

    do you let someone decide what to seek or yourself figure out what you want?

    By God's grace, each one finds what one was meant to seek.

    <<and what is the way for him/her to obtain it.>>

    What might be the way for me, might not be for someone else. If it was, it's human nature to speed up the process and we all would have got what we want.
     
  10. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Huck_Finn ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Thanks for the response.

    Let me put it in a different way because I would like to know this from your own personal journey and perspective and share with us your insight, so we can learn from it.

    Please elaborate your own true path and markers and how you discovered it and what means are you using to stay on it?

    This could really a learning lessons for many of us, at least for me.

    You write:

    Who is this someone you are talking about?

    I wish I were a bird watcher. You mean they do not take the shortest way when they migrate?

    I would like if you do not mind to use elaborate answers with examples and share your own experience because at times one liners have more echoes than substance.

    Thanks and hope to learn from your ow true path and markers.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  11. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Tejwant ji

    <I would like if you do not mind to use elaborate answers with examples and share your own experience because at times one liners have more echoes than substance.>>

    i really wish I could elaborate, but sometimes contemplation yields more understanding that rote learning.

    and i am not a teacher.

    merely answering your queries and sharing my opinions.

    <<Who is this someone you are talking about?>>

    i surely do not want to be the someone :)


    <<Let me put it in a different way because I would like to know this from your own personal journey and perspective and share with us your insight, so we can learn from it.

    Please elaborate your own true path and markers and how you discovered it and what means are you using to stay on it? >>

    Tejant ji

    as you also understood, everyone has a PERSONAL journey to make. and it is all ordained by Akal.

    How i discovered the true path...hmm

    it happened. Just like that.

    but what might be true for me, might be false for you.

    so, to each one, his/her own, as Akal ordains.
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    We are trying to come to terms with the thorny question of being authentically a Sikh.

    A few questions that take us further into the discussion. Forgive me.
     
  13. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    <<Can the road traveled by an adherent of Sikhism be uniquely different to each individual and still be a journey on the Sikh marg?>>

    sadly the -isms do not allow diversity.

    The inner journey will always be different and -isms are an outwardly transition.

    <<Do the external markers ever provide an insight into the internal lights guiding any one individual on the Sikh marg? >>

    yes, the are important stimuli, just like the light attracts the moth. But Moth is searching the sun and not the light to begin with.

    <<Is one more accurate than the other? Or do they inform us of changes that are different in nature? >>

    i am yet to come around this one.

    <<Is the focus on the Seeker so general as to be a meaningless construct when we are trying to understand an authentic Sikhism? By that I mean, someone could be a Seeker of the Zoroastrian marg. Does that make him also a Sikh?a>>

    aadji

    SGGS is replete with tuks that share the thought that what we seek is beyond our imagination, beyond description..

    how could i pin point what we seek?

    Akal ordains, we are mere puppets.

    seeker of -isms are different from seekers i speak of.


    <<When is Sikhism "right" for someone? How do we know? What inner lights do we attend to? What inner voices speak? What experiences and emotions assure us that we have made the right decision to walk on the path described by Guru Nanak?>>

    tricky qn

    -isms are personal choices. It's not right or wrong.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Huck Finn ji

    Perhaps I am being testy and unfair to you. But did you read the first post in the thread? It includes an article that some claims about what it means to be "authentically Sikh." The questions I posed at the very beginning of the thread ask whether the author of the article has taken a very limited view of his own concept "authentically Sikh."

    I do not understand why you want to derail the conversation away from the original purpose of the thread into a discussion of whether is makes sense to be a member of any religion at all. It is hurtful actually. It mocks the choice of anyone who is willing to stand up as an adherent of Sikhism. And it mocks the premise of the thread -- as if it is a worthless to discuss whether the claims made in Post 1 capture the experience of being a Sikh, and as if it is ridiculous to even ask the questions that I asked.

    If you think that the topic is worthless and the questions are ridiculous just say so. You don't have to mince words. Then those who wish to move on with the intended discussion will be able to do so.
     
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  15. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Narayanjot ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Well said. The idea of different thread is for people to discuss about what the thread is about, not their own ramblings and some hidden agenda which they are too insecure to disclose even when urged which has nothing to do with the topic.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  16. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    narayanjot ji

    i am not mincing words, merely sharing my opinions while trying not to hurt someone's feelings.

    discussions done with blinkers on do not yield insights.

    ok, the discussion started with someone trying to explain what is authentic sikh. then it veers into the concept of fitting in.

    this is where my opinion of human nature and desire to fit in comes in. If you deem that it derails the discussion, please feel free to delete my posts. I wouldn't feel bad a wee bit. :)

    and lastly, i did not mean to hurt someone, asking questions might hurt a bit now, but i hope it helps in the long run.

    to each one his own, as Akal ordains.
     
  17. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਲਖ ਵੀਸ ॥
    इक दू जीभौ लख होहि लख होवहि लख वीस ॥
    Ik ḏū jībẖou lakẖ hohi lakẖ hovėh lakẖ vīs.
    If I had 100,000 tongues, and these were then multiplied twenty times more, with each tongue,

    ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ॥
    लखु लखु गेड़ा आखीअहि एकु नामु जगदीस ॥
    Lakẖ lakẖ geṛā ākẖī▫ahi ek nām jagḏīs.
    I would repeat, hundreds of thousands of times, the Name of the One, the Lord of the Universe.

    ਏਤੁ ਰਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਵੜੀਆ ਚੜੀਐ ਹੋਇ ਇਕੀਸ ॥
    एतु राहि पति पवड़ीआ चड़ीऐ होइ इकीस ॥
    Ėṯ rāhi paṯ pavṛī▫ā cẖaṛī▫ai ho▫e ikīs.
    Along this path to our Husband Lord, we climb the steps of the ladder, and come to merge with Him.

    ਸੁਣਿ ਗਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਕੀ ਕੀਟਾ ਆਈ ਰੀਸ ॥
    सुणि गला आकास की कीटा आई रीस ॥
    Suṇ galā ākās kī kītā ā▫ī rīs.
    Hearing of the etheric realms, even worms long to come back home.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਕੂੜੀ ਕੂੜੈ ਠੀਸ ॥੩੨॥
    नानक नदरी पाईऐ कूड़ी कूड़ै ठीस ॥३२॥
    Nānak naḏrī pā▫ī▫ai kūṛī kūrhai ṯẖīs. ||32||
    O Nanak, by His Grace He is obtained. False are the boastings of the false. ||32||
     
  18. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    Huck Finn ji

    Kindly elaborate. How does this shabad address the topic under discussion? :) Or is it a continuation of the ideas that you have introduced and that should be part of a new thread?

    Please elaborate as to how it address True and False paths. Narayanjot Kaur
     
  19. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    narayanjot ji

    it addresses the question of True and False paths raised by my dear friend Tejwant ji.
     
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  20. spnadmin

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    Re: Authentic Sikhism Defined?

    And how does it do that?
     
  21. Huck_Finn

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    narayanjot ji

    a few things are best left to contemplation

    if things were so easy to explain and share without contemplation, Guru ji would have made a small list to follow.


    This is the beauty of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it promotes contemplation.
     
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