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Sikh News AKJ Vs Kala Afghanist Debate

Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Dear Friends,

I have converted to english some 45 points from the 100s of points that Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga have brought to the notice of the Khalsa. He has brought foreward many points, but I am first posting below the points he want us to know from the writings of Taksal.

Following are some of the blunders in Taksal writings: -

  • Giani Gurbachan Singh (Taksal leader) himself prefixed the following “alankaars” to his name : “Srimaan - Panth Ratan -Vidya Martand – Sant – Giani – Gurbachan Singh Ji.”
  • Taksal is emphasizing that Guru Nanak Dev ji is from Kush (Ram’s sons) dynasty.
  • Guru Angad Sahib ji is written to be from the dynasty of Lakshman’s son.
  • Guru Amardaas ji is told to be from the dynasty of Bharat.
  • Guru Ramdaas ji is written to be from the dynasty of lahoo.
  • Guru Har Rai ji got married 8 times.
  • Bhai Dya Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avatar (re-incarnation) of lahoo
  • Bhai Dharam Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Panna ji.
  • Bhai Himmat Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Chaturbhuji (four armed)
  • Bhai Mohkam Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Namdev ji
  • Bhai Sahib Singh (one of the panj pyare) was avtar of Sain ji
  • A lady with her “pati vrata shakti” (power gained by worshipping her husband) could travel for Kabul to Goindwal every morning and return back to Kabul every evening. With her same power she could move the cradle of her child in Kabul while she was in Goindwal.
  • Another lady with the same “pati vrata shakti” stopped the sun from rising and only released the sun when her husband was made alive by the gods again.
  • Satguru has restricted us from wearing red color clothes.
  • Taksal has written that “Mool mantar” is till “Nanak ho si bhi sach” whereas the truth is that “Mool mantar” is till “Gur parsad”.
  • Baba Sunder Singh’s father Khajan Singh used to read path standing on one foot so that he could get a son as a boon.
  • While the child is being born, the nurse (or “dai”) should only be a Sikh. Does not Taksal members and leaders go to hospitals? ... are all nurses Sikh there?
  • Baba Farid kept meditating in jungles for years and ate the leaves of trees. This is totally false, as I have read Baba Farid was against such acts.
  • Baba Farid kept hanging in a well for 13 years and kept meditating.
  • Guru Gobind Singh ji had a hidden book with them. (why would guru ji hide that from his Khalsa, I think this is being said so that these guys (taksal) can write their own book and later say they have found that hidden book).
  • Bhai Dya Singh, Dharam Singh , Bhai Himmat Singh, Bhai Mohkam Singh and Bhai Sahib Singh’s head was cut by Guru Gobind Singh ji and put as a giving in front of Guru Granth Sahib. Taksal mentions that this fact is written in hidden book of Guru Gobind Singh ji. (Excellent way to fool innocent people!).
  • Bhai Himmat Singh Ji ( one of panj pyare ) was cursed in his last birth. God had told him that in the form of 10th guru I will cut your head and release you. (This seems to be a story picked up from Hindu mythology)
  • When the heads of Panj Pyare were cut, amrit was sprinkled and new heads grew on their shoulders. (Notice the use of “grew”).
  • Guru ji gave “amrit” to 2 sparrows and those 2 sparrows died fighting with each other. Gurbaksh Singh named sikh ran to honorable mother and she put some patasey (sweets) into amrit only then the amrit became peaceful. (Think it over, the so called mythical man in Taksal writing ran to honorable mother. Does that mean had disbelief in Guru Gobind Singh ji, does this mean Guru ji made some blunder while preparing amrit??)
  • Panj pyare’s said to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, “Just like Ram Chander honored monkeys, you are honoring us”. ( are we monkeys now?? And that too panj pyare?? This is insult of each sikh)
  • If you recite Keertan Sohila before sleeping an iron fort will be build around you. (Think, if that is possible then we do not need to lock our houses).
  • Tobbacco has come into being due to the blood that oozed out of the feet of kaamdhenu Cow. (wow! It will take an idiot to believe this and they are trying to teach this to the Sikhs).
  • Khalsa should only wear blue, yellow, black or white, no other color.
  • Narad muni (from Hindu mythology) gifted Guru Gobind Singh ji with the feathers of a bird, that is why Guru Gobind Singh ji had so many powers.
  • When Dan Singh asked about long hair of Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh ji replied that Sikhs have long hair so that they can be pulled out of hell by holding them with these long hair (what an insult of Sikh identity)
  • Women should not be involved in preparation of amrit.
  • Women should not perform Gidha in marriages.
  • The wife of King Hari Sen came to court in a viel, Guru asked, “who is this insane women?” The same time she became insane. (Think, will guru ji make any body insane?)
  • Bhai Heera Singh died while reciting Gurbani. Chariots (rath) from sky came to take him. ( I feel like laughing, seems like these people have watched Ramanand Sagar’s Ramayan too much)
  • Kachchera (undergarment), comb etc. should be tied with a dead person. (Again!, a Hindu superstition).
  • Sikh priests should not eat garlic and onion. (What??)
  • Use desi ghee (oil made from butter) for jyot (candle) for paath and dhoop (fragrance stick) should always be burning. (Very soon, they will release the next version of it – keep everything in a plate and perform aarti of Guru Granth Sahib and put tilak on everyone’s forehead)
  • Also Taksal has mentioned the list of other such materials needed for paath.(Just like a pandit will give a long list of “pooja samgri”)
  • After bhog performing aarti is necessary.
  • Taksal writings mention, you cannot go in front of Guru Granth Sahib wearing pajamas, women should also follow the same rule. (Do you see any logic here??)
  • To give the proof that he is right guru, 10th guru recited Gurbani entirely from his memory so that people do not suspect him. (????)
  • Sikh Priest should kept “maun vrat”, should not court with his wife. If he suffers from night fall he should go to toiled and then wash his hair. (Oh god! What nonsense?).
  • Gifting coconut is equal to gifting a head. (well, then why “Sir dhar tali gali meri ayo”??? why not “Nariyal (coconut) dhar tali gali meri ayo” ????)
  • If paath is recited properly then the inside nut part of the coconut will become ashes.
  • Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha has written wrong by Raag Mala. (Dear readers let me inform you and even Giani Gurdit Singh ji rejects Raag Mala as authentic part of Gurbani and he has proved with facts that this has been added by some unauthorized person. Enthusiastic reader is encourage to search the internet for “Mundavani” and related spellings.)
These are just a few points and there are various others that I have yet to translate. This is first draft of the translation written in one go under the effect of tiredness from work and sleep, therefore, pardon my mistakes. I will improve the translations as I get more time and go through revisions.

Sat Shri Akaal,

-Akashdeep.
 
May 16, 2005
341
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38
Vernon, BC Canada
It is good that people question and bring up issues about the way sikhi is now in our community. Unfortunately, people are often excommunicated for being like that. Yes, some of his views are a little strange, however, the only way to progress our community is to question what we already believe.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Dear Loinchild,

Das recomends you to have some more info about Ghugga Ji and his idelogy.

Both of us can learn a lot from them.They are good in many ways. wwwSikhmarg.com
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,706
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
THANK YOU VEER AKASHDEEP JI.
THESE few points shouldbe enough to show who is telling the TRUTH as per GURBANI and who is NOT. Anyway if soem doubters still need the rest..could you please do the honours of translating the rest. Your English is very good.
Guur Ji Kirpa Karan...the day Sikhs STOP asking questions is the day we die. THATS why these "dharam de thekedaars ( self appointed vidya martands) want to SILENCE the queries by excommunication/punishment etc. It wont work..has never worked and never will. No point "mixing up ghaghha ji with kala afghana Ji"...let them deal with one by one so to keep matters in perpesctive...

Gyani jarnail Singh
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

I am not sure if Inder Singh Ghagga is excommunicated because he criticized a book written by "Srimaan - Panth Ratan -Vidya Martand - Sant - Giani - Gurbachan Singh Ji."

I feel being a true Sikh and becoming pure (Khalsa) one gets rid of hate too. I am surprised why topics like "Sada BeRa Eao Garkeya" and criticizing other religions including his own are very important in his life. Is he an expert understanding the negativity of religions and sparkling it? Is this the way to recognize true value of human life?

Those who want to praise him should better mention his thankfulness to God for his spiritual experiences if he has any.


Balbir Singh
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Khalsa Ji,

Sat Shri Akaal!

Just finished the translation of Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga's article on Sant Maskeen.


Was Giani Sant Singh Maskeen "Vidya Maartand" and "Brahm Giani"?

(Author: Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga, translated from
original Punjabi text by Akashdeep Singh Aulakh)




Vocabulary: -
Vidya Martand = Sun of Knowledge
Brahm Giani = He who knows the truth of the universe, he is the creator of the universe, he is formless, yet he is present in every form on this earth. (Shri Sukhmani Sahib)
Gurmat = the ideology/intelligence given by Sikh spiritual gurus, the Sikh faith.
Bhog = conclusion ceremony after Paath is complete.
Paath = the act of reading and understanding the Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib.



If you keep Maskeen ji's lecture audios on one side and read Osho's (Rajneesh's) books first, you will feel it yourself that Giani Maskeen Ji exactly repeated Osho's words and scarcely talked about Sikh faith.

The management of one gurudwara in England imposed a restriction on Maskeen ji for his lectures in that gurudwara that he should talk only about Gurbani and Gurmat, and not Brahamanical fables and stories during his lecture in that Gurudwara. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat (the knowledge/instruction from the Sikh gurus) then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". By getting recorded talking just about Gurmat, he did not want to disappoint his followers who adhere to Hinduism.

Against Gurmat, he often makes this claim that fairies come to listen to his lectures and are visible to Maskeen Ji only.

He is already considered to be a millionaire preacher, what good for Gurmat has been done by presenting his family with tens and tens of lakhs of rupees?

At the time of bhog, he was being promoted as "Brahm Giani" with the help of banners put on height. On the other hand, Gurbani only calls "Akaal Purakh" as Brahm Giani and mentions that Brahm Giani never dies.

He was a big fan of mythological gods, the carnal-lust idols of Khajuraho and the nudity ridden stories from the Dasam Granth and kept using Gurbani wrongly to prove the carnal-lust instigating stories that he used to tell.

Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara Management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara Management is useless , and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" beliefs in the Gurudwaras in the past. He talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

I would have never written this article, if I did not get chance to see the 7 hours of live telecast of Sant Maskeen ji's last rituals and tribute ceremonies on ETC TV channel. It is not possible for one to knowingly gulp a fly in the milk, in the tribute ceremony the following incomplete line from Gurbani was written in bold words in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji -

"Brahm Gyani sad jeeve nahi marta"

Watching and reading this shocked my mind and heart. This big blunder? The person who all his life kept speaking on the stages meant for preaching Gurmat, who earned his living by supposedly preaching Gurmat could not teach the essence of Gurbani to his family and his disciple and the likes of Ranjeet Singh Gohar who were managing these ceremonies?. The incomplete line mentioned above has been picked up from 8th ashtpadi of Shri Sukhmani Sahib and has been used by these people in a way to emphasize that Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen was "Brahm Giani" and he has not died but is alive because being a "Brahm Giani" he cannot die. Now kindly pay attention to the 8th ashtpadi from where the incomplete line mentioned above has been picked, and note who has been called "Brahm Giani" in Gurbani

Braham Giani sabh srishat ka karta ||
Braham Giani sad jeeve nahin marta ||
Braham Giani mukt jugat ka daata ||
Braham Giani pooran purakh bidhata ||
Braham Giani anaath ka naath ||
Braham Giani ka sabh upar haath ||
Braham Giani ka sagal aakaar ||
Braham Giani aap nirankaar ||


There are 7 other paudiyaans of this 8th ashtpadi but summarizing and understanding of just the 8th paudi removes all the doubts about who should be called Brahm Giani.

Sentence wise, brief meanings are as follows:-
1. Brahm Giani is he who has created this whole universe.
2. Brahm Giani always lives, he never dies.
3. Brahm Giani shows the way to salvation, shows the way to live life.
4. Brahm Giani is in truth the puran purakh (consummate), and the one who gives birth to all.
5. Brahm Giani helps the helpless.
6. Brahm Giani showers his blessings on everyone.
7. All visible forms/shape (the world, the universe, the nature) are images (embodiments) of Brahm Giani.
8. Brahm Giani is nobody else, but the Supreme Power (God) himself.

The world knows that since we live in human bodies we all are bound to die one day - all the saints and our own 10 reverent Gurus had to leave as well. Whoever has foolishly tried to convince people to call himself God, he has lost respect in the eyes of intelligent people. If the misuse of above mentioned line was being done by Maskeen ji's family only, it might have been a little less painful, but the preachers who have been taught by Maskeen ji did blunders against Gurbani as well. Extremely painful is the fact that when all these blunders were visibly and noticeably made in such ceremonies, all the 5 heads of our 5 Takhts were present there. The heads of Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee (DGMC) and Shiromani Gurudwara Management committee (SGPC) were all present there. There were other numerous preachers, honorable personalities present on this occasion and none of them could say a word till the end about this self created doctrine. Then should we simply drink this bitter pain and be calm that all these people don’t even have the slightest understanding of Gurbani, or should we think that these people have become so much coward that they could not dare to speak the truth? At least somebody could have said this at sometime, “Saad Sangat! This line means God (IkOnkar) himself, and God (IkOnkar) never dies. We all bodily organisms are bound to destruction.”

Now let’s consider some of the comments by the responsible people during the 2nd March 2005 tribute ceremony: -

Role model for Sikh society: Every invitee come on stage reiterated this again and again on the mike that Maskeen Ji was a role model for your life and were a source of inspiration for the Sikh Panth. Note that in today’s world our reverent “Guru Sahibaan” are seen no more as role models for the Sikh society, Gurbani is no more the source of inspiration for Sikhs.

Sun?: More trumpets of praise were blown on the stage, “Maskeen were like sun of knowledge, he was “Vidya Martand”, he was great Gurbani speaker (kathawachak)” Note that all other shining things do not have their own source of light rather they shine by reflecting the light from Sun. Sun is the only unique power which does not need to borrow light from somewhere else, the shine and heat is of its own. What Maskeen ji told the listeners (sangat), was that knowledge his own? The knowledgeable people from the Sikh society know that this “shine” of knowledge was from the great writers of our Gurbani. The treasure in the form of Gurbani given to us by our Gurus is the sun of knowledge for us. If we use the title of Sun for Maskeen ji, then what words should we us for our Guru Sahibaan? If anybody has doubt then please listen carefully Maskeen ji’s lectures and start reading Osho’s (Rajneesh’s) books. You will find word by word repetition other then a few exceptions here and there. And the difference that seems to be counting is that general Sikh population has not read Osho’s books.

Just repeated Osho’s words: Now if you call Maskeen ji great speaker of Gurbani, then please excuse me, in his 40 years of exposure to public he has not done preaching of Gurbani. If he has spoke of anything other then Osho’s words, they were the poems of Sheik Sadi, Meer, Daag, Mirza Ghalib and Faiz etc. In his 1 hour of lecture one will find very few lines from Gurbani and that too incomplete. He never spoke whole “shabad” from Gurbani. He never remained stationed at any place for 1 or 2 months to do continuous recitation of Gurbani. But yes, he adored the Dasam Granth which is full of obscene stories. He used to tell with great excitation the carnal act ridden stories from Dasam Granth.

After the death of the richest story-teller lakhs more were given from the religious funds: A check worth 50 thousand was given to Maskee ji’s wife as a help from the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee. In addition to this, a promise was given of no interference in all those places which were in the possession of Maskeen ji’s family. Those properties belonged to the committee and hence were the public religious fund generated properties but were given away to Maskeen ji’s family. Forgetting all ancient scholars and brave Sikhs, the Delhi Gurudwara Management Committee’s head announced to start an award in the name of Maskeen ji. Perhaps these people have accepted Maskeen ji as greatest among all those ancient scholars and brave men.

Why so much attention for Maskeen ji?: Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) went one step ahead. In memory of Maskeen ji, Bhai Gurdaas award was declared. Reward of one lakh rupees was reserved for Maskeen ji’s wife. Ten lakh rupees were given to Maskeen ji’s family by SGPC right away ......

The Maskeen ji, whose 3 sons have settled businesses very well in foreign lands, he who had earned enormous money by selling audio cassettes of his lectures, by selling books and by delivering lectures, was given even more money. The money that public is faithfully donating in the Gurudwara’s is being wasted in acts like this; he who is already flourishing was given even more. There were no education centers being opened to train economically weaker Sikh youth in reading/reciting Gurbani rather Maskeen’s family, which was already playing in millions, was distributed with even more big gifts. These type of gifts were never given to the greats of the likes of Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Dr. Ganda Singh, S. Narain Singh (Guru Nanak Mission, Patiala) and others. Why only Maskeen ji was given this great attention? ... It’s worth thinking.

Preaching against Gurmat: There are numerous examples of how Maskeen ji taught wrong meanings of Gurbani, how he told wrong meanings of Gurbani at his own will. Let’s consider a few examples:-

Naam and Kaam: - Sadly, in his one hour lecture Maskeen ji clearly represents Satguru ji as lover of “Kok Shastra” (ancient unscientific brahminic work). He used to do the blunder of picking incomplete lines from Gurbani for reasoning. He used to present carnal proofs using these. Note this line picked by him, “Baal kanya ko baap pyara....” (596) and now note his explanation, “A daughter loves her father, and a son loves his mother. Fathers love is more for daughter as compared to his love for son, a mothers love is more towards her son as compared to her love for daughter this is because there is deep attraction between opposite sexes” The place from where Maskeen ji has picked this incomplete line, there the actual subject was that of death, sex is not at all referred there. In reality the complete lines are:-


Mai baap ko beta neeka, samoorey chatur jawai ||
Baal kanniya ko baap piyara bhai ko ati bhai ||
Hukam bhaya bahur ghar chodya khinn mahi bhai parai ||

Fan of naked idols of Khajuraho: The nudity ridden carnal-lust instigating idols of the Khajuraho temple in the state of Madhya Pradesh, which were placed there by people who lost their way, are seen as Gurmat by Maskeen Ji. He has openly praised the nudity and the sculptures of these idols and has crossed all limits of morality by using Gurbani wrongfully to provide instances. He has also done the mean act of relating our Gurus with these idols. Our Gurbani has shown us path to live life with self-control. These idols which have been praised by Maskeen Ji break all limits of self-control and represent shameless acts to the public. Yours truly got a chance to see these idols at Khajuraho, the guide of that place was speaking of these indecent carnal-lust ridden idols in the same way as Maskeen ji and was representing them to be the work of great saints. The guide also mentioned that after seeing these idols for a while you will become peaceful and then go inside the temple and have the sight of the God. Yours truly apprehended the guide for his wrongful saying and asked, “You ignorant human! I am an old man of 58 years and watching these idols have made me uneasy and restless. It will take me at least a weak to get normal and peaceful again. What would have been the effect of watching these idols on the young people?” And our Maskeen ji visualized these idols in accordance with Gurmat.

Can a human become invisible?: In his stories Maskeen ji tells big lie that, “By reciting Naam human being can become as minute as an atom. He can then go anywhere he wants including Moon, Sun, or Stars in the flash of an eye. He can minimize or enlarge his body as much as he wants” For lines used for instance are the following: -

Parmanoo parjant aakaasheh deep loye sikhandaneh ||
Gachchen nain bharen Nanak, Nanak bina sadhoo na sidhtey ||

In reality, Guru Arjun Dev ji was well aware of the enormous strength of Atomic power. The lines above said by Guru Arjun Dev ji are saying that a human being can generate enormous power by understanding how Atoms work. Using this strength humans can travel very long distances in very short time. But the abundance of materials and super fast speeds will not be able to provide any happiness to humans, everlasting happiness can will only be achieved from Satguru ji’s orders.

Blind praise of Devi/Devtey: Maskeen ji has spoken of hours and hours in the praise of Raam, Krishan, Brahma and Vishnu. He has been promoting King Ram Chander as in ideal human being, has been praising limitlessly the ancient mythological gods. It is sad that he never remembered those who have been cut into pieces by saws, those innocents who have been hanged, those who had to live in jungles, the big and small Sikh holocausts etc. Hindus gods and goddesses were dear to him but in his entire life he did not describe any principle from the Gurbani.

He spread rumors himself that fairies come to listen to his lectures: On one hand Maskeen ji used to tell good things in his lectures, but on the other hand he used to tell unscientific mock able things very often. Recorded audios and videos are witness to my writing. One lie that he often used to tell on his stages is that, “Fairies and gods come to listen my lectures. They are not visible to anybody but just to me”. Maskeen ji had no regret to tell this one more lie that with faith in Naam a human can become bodyless and within a flash of an eye can go anywhere he wants to. In Maskeen ji’s own words, “I have seen these type of people”. I don’t know what which religion Maskeen ji had been serving with these kinds of lies? Why he himself could not become bodyless with the power of 40 – 50 years of his own Naam faith? Then there would have been no need for automobiles, planes and ships.

Our so called jathedars: What to expect from other to speak against the wrong doings when all 5 jathedars (leaders of 5 Takhats) were also present there. There were those jathedars who just 3 days ago were mud slinging each other, were ready to smash Paggs (turbans) of each other in front of ETC TV channel and our Guru Granth Sahib ji at Akal Takhat. Somebody was engulfed in bribery case, whereas some other was facing the charges of having 3 wives. The same Vedanti, with the connivance of other jathedars, declared Dhanwant Singh Saint not guilty. The government court of Gurdaspur declared this same Dhanwant Singh Saint guilty and pronounced 10 years jail with labor and also fined him with 10 thousand rupees. A jathedar charged with case of taking bribe questioned another jathedar Iqbal Singh (from Patna) for keeping 3 wives. Iqbal Singh raged out of Akal Takhat blaming Satguru ji. In the tribute ceremony of Maskeen ji, the same Iqbal Singh had again become “Singh Sahib” and was preaching people.


When Maskeen ji was bound by UK Gurudwara Management: The South Hall Gurudwara Management in UK bravely bounded Maskeen ji telling, “We want to listen Gurmat from you, we do not want to listen to self created stories less we have to cancel the program”. Maskeen Ji replied, "If you want me to talk only about Gurmat then first stop recording all the video films, I cannot talk just about Gurmat while being recorded". The cameras we shut down and he did very good preaching from Gurbani. With his TV channels programs he seemed to be more worried about pleasing his Hindu followers, and remained step motherly to Sikh philosophy. On these channels he was seen talking more about mythological Hindu gods and goddesses more and less about Guru Sahibaan.

Gurudwara Management to Nirmaliye: Maskeen ji has written a book on Gurudwara management and has distributed this book free of cost. In that book he mentions that the present Gurudwara management is useless, and the solution that he mentions in the book is that the Gurudwara Management should be given back to "Nirmaliye". Maskeen ji got education from a "Nirmaliya" teacher and he himself is a follower of "Nirmaliya" sect and is a disciple of Baba Shri Chand. These Nirmalye were the people who spread the "Brahmani" rituals in the Gurudwaras in the past. Maskeen ji talked about people but has never talked about Paanth (Sikh Paanth).

References:-

1. POFESSOR INDER SINGH GHAGGA'S ARTICLES
2. SSI Canada
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
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INDIA
after reading this article i can say that mr.ghagha here is going overboard
in criticising gyani sant singh maskeen.he mentioned some good points but maskeen never promoted blind rituals like taksal and akjs are promoting.
maskeen accepted that guru gobind singh restarted jhatka.which no sikh
preacher will accept.maskeen also criticised "chaliya" and going gurudwara
for your financial or physical problems and the best thing he did not started his own rehat maryada.instead of writing article on maskeen mr.ghagha should
expose rituals AKJs,nanaksar and taksal are promoting like

1)fanatic vegetarianism
2)forcing turbans for girls
3)amritdhari should not eat from the hands of non amritdharis
4)their sants have conversation with guru's
5)calling their rehat maryada as the true one.
etc
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
kds1980,

Sat Shri Akaal,

My thinking on this is as embedded.

after reading this article i can say that mr.ghagha here is going overboard in criticising gyani sant singh maskeen.he mentioned some good points but maskeen never promoted blind rituals like taksal and akjs are promoting.

To say "mr. ghagha here is going overboard in criticising gyani sant singh maskeen" one would have to disagree to atleast one of the above points mentioned by Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga". So do you think any of the following:-
  1. That Maskeen ji should be called "Brahm Giani" ?
  2. That Maskeen was right in deciphering the following line
    1. “Baal kanya ko baap pyara....”
  3. That giving Maskeen ji's family lakhs of rupees and Gurudwara Committee property is right and justified.
  4. That Maskeen ji should be given a lot of attentions even more than the greats of the likes of Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Dr. Ganda Singh, S. Narain Singh (Guru Nanak Mission, Patiala) and others.
  5. That his praise of nakedness and wrong usage of Gurbani to provide instances was right.
  6. That his extra focus on Dasam Granth was right and justified.
  7. That angels did come to listen to his lectures and they were visible only to Maskeen ji.
  8. That asking UK management to stop recording Maskeen ji was doing some devine work and not escaping being recorded not talking "majority" pleasing language.
  9. That the management of our Gurudwaras should be given back to Nirmaliya Sect.
  10. ...............
I think it would be better to request you the points in the article from Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga that you disagree to, so please point some points that you think Sant Maskeen was right in doing so and Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga is crying wolf.

Also, I request you to mention why you disagree and we shall discuss that further. I will be listening to all the lectures from Sant Maskeen ji and will try to note down the points from his lectures [might take some time to accomplish this]. I request you to listen to all his lectures as well so that we can discuss them.

My thinking till now is that Maskeen ji was simply doing what an intelligent businessmen would do - target the market with greater potential. Did you notice why the attention of the world has recently diverted towards and India and China? - simple, both these countries have gigantic markets and the developed nations are now looking towards both India and China to sell their products. And the products that the multinational companies are now designing will be specifically targeted at these markets. As an example, world biggest chip manufacturing company Intel researched the Chinese and Indian markets to see what will be the products that will be liked by the majority of the population in these countries. How can they sell into these markets if they are not producing something which is liked by the masses of these countries? Similarly, how could Maskeen ji have huge followers, gift-givers, audio-video buyers if he did not target his lectures to the majority population? Simple again, he intelligently chose Dasam Granth (which is higly disputed and Sikhs do not accept most of it as authentic). Why did he chose Dasam Granth? - obvious again! this made it simple for him to relate the unverified writings from Dasam Granth and relate to popular belief and could satisfy more crowds. Then using the ignorance of the Sikh population he used incomplete lines from Gurbani to assert his lectures from Dasam Granth and stuff like Khajuraho paintings. Ever thought what would have happened if he spoke purely from Gurmat? He would have to say, to the masses listening to him, the things that they will not like and he would have been left with Sikh listeners only. How much is the sikh population (market)? And how many Sikhs believe in such gurus/sants?. This is would have reduced his followers (consumers/market) to just a few. He was a master, he smartly avoided that by mixing Sikh belief with Hindu system by misuse of incomplete Gurbani lines and Dasam Granth. He simply sold in the market what could sell to more people- this is not characteristic of any Sant. I differ strongly here my friend, unless you provide concrete facts to change my thought.

I think Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga rightly titled one of his articles, "Gurbani Mahaan, Sikh Nadaan"

maskeen accepted that guru gobind singh restarted jhatka.which no sikh
preacher will accept.maskeen also criticised "chaliya" and going gurudwara
for your financial or physical problems and the best thing he did not started his own rehat maryada.instead of writing article on maskeen mr.ghagha should expose rituals AKJs,nanaksar and taksal are promoting like

1)fanatic vegetarianism
2)forcing turbans for girls
3)amritdhari should not eat from the hands of non amritdharis
4)their sants have conversation with guru's
5)calling their rehat maryada as the true one.
etc
Thanks for pointing these misdoings in AKJs, nanaksar and taksal preachings . If we all could have that attention like yours we would definitely progress and have better understanding of Gurbani. Infact, why Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga is facing so much criticism is the fact that he has spoken against these people already. I have already tranlating some 45 points from Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga's article Kallar Khet Lai Kood Jamaya PART1 and Kallar Khet Lai Kood Jamaya PART2

"Jyun kar sooraj niklaya, taare chhipey haner paloyeya"


Yours Truly,
-Akashdeep
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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dear akashdeep ji

as i earlier said he mentioned some good points but no person is without faults

<<1)That Maskeen ji should be called "Brahm Giani" ?>>


i don't think he should be called brahm gyani

<<2)That Maskeen was right in deciphering the following line
“Baal kanya ko baap pyara....”>>

i agree with it he should not had used single line.but tell is there any sikh scholar you have not used single line to prove his point.go to any sikh site
you will find line "sabat surat dastar" to promote turban but reality is that shabad has nothing to with wearing turban or not.

<<3)That giving Maskeen ji's family lakhs of rupees and Gurudwara Committee property is right and justified.>>

no i think it is wrong

4)That Maskeen ji should be given a lot of attentions even more than the greats of the likes of Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Dr. Ganda Singh, S. Narain Singh (Guru Nanak Mission, Patiala) and others.

i think attention is connected with gurudwara politics

5)That his praise of nakedness and wrong usage of Gurbani to provide instances was right.

from past 2 years i am hearing maskeen ji's katha on etc channel punjabi and i never heard him praising nakedness.as far as wrong usage of gurbani is concerned i am repeating again majority of sikhs are doing this.

6)That his extra focus on Dasam Granth was right and justified.

well mr.ghagha should accept that majority of sikhs beleive that dasam granth is written by guru gobind singh.maskeen also several times cleared miscoception to general public about the famous quote of guru gobind singh "mahakal kalka aradhi" that kalka is not goddess but reference to god.

7)That angels did come to listen to his lectures and they were visible only to Maskeen ji.

again mr.ghagha is going overboard.he never said fairies come to listen
his katha and are visible only to him.what he said is that if good person dies his soul wander in gurudwara.this is a some kind of after death theory by him.
sometimes these things are necessary to attract general public

8)That asking UK management to stop recording Maskeen ji was doing some devine work and not escaping being recorded not talking "majority" pleasing language.

i don't know nothing about it.

10)That the management of our Gurudwaras should be given back to Nirmaliya Sect.
...............

i don't agree with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
one thing mr. ghagha should understand that majority of sikhs are living in india the sadhu , sants baba,s who day and night propagate their theories.many sikhs are foolishly starting following them
even if maskeen was doing business i support him because

1) he was not promoting meaningless rituals like idol worship or special days
2)he was increasing faith of people in god and guru granth sahib
3)he was also clearing misunderstanding that guru gobind singh worshipped
goddess and said that according to guru granth sahib anybody who worship
goddess will reincarnate as women.please undersatnd their are many sikhs
in india who regularly worship "mata"
4)unlike another jatha he do not have his own rehat maryada
5)criticising fake sants
6)advocating simple lifestyle with faith in guru granth sahib and god
7)acceptance of jhatka and not promoting fanatic vegetarianism


etc

its better for sikhs to hear katha of maskeen rather than following any sadhu,sant.

as i earlier said the sikhs are facing much bigger issues.unity of the panth is must.if mr.ghagha want to find faults in every preacher then he will make
more enemies than friends and ulimately responsible for disunity of panth
the sikhism is facing much bigger issues and the biggest of them is fanaticism
compared to them maskeen is vey minor issue.
regards.
kanwardeep singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
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Gurfateh

Well when we do not have devotion and purely knowledge we develop ego and any one not going as per us is seen as Bad.Vedanat has same God as God of Sikhs but it failed due the same mistake Vedantic guys did ie by showing each other lower then self and going more after knwoldge then say devotion.

Das knows that Sant Singh Ji Maskeen are oppsed due to his being instrument of getting Ambala Sahib Tankhaiya as alleged.Das can produce some verse from Guru Granth Sahib Ji,which have relative staments as made by Baba Ji or maskeen ji to prove some deeper meaing as das is sure that people with doubt will say that this is interpolatiojn in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


Say after death of Ghuhgha Ji osme one calls him living Guru,then it is not the fault of Ghugga Ji.
 
Oct 15, 2006
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10
dear akashdeep ji

<<2)That Maskeen was right in deciphering the following line
“Baal kanya ko baap pyara....”>>

i agree with it he should not had used single line.but tell is there any sikh scholar you have not used single line to prove his point.go to any sikh site
you will find line "sabat surat dastar" to promote turban but reality is that shabad has nothing to with wearing turban or not.

Here I'll like to state the line from the Bhai Kulbir Singh and Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga's debate, "Two wrongs do not make a right" - it is so right.

Moreover, Kanwardeep what I am trying to say here is not just limited to use of single line as long as it is used in right context. Purposefully, misscommunicating Gurbani is wrong and should not be appreciated wherever it is done by whoever. Now there can be 2 people Mr. A and Mr. B who used gurbani wrongly. Mr. A have used it wrongly just because he/she was ignorant or did not have deep understanding of Gurbani. Whereas, Mr. B had understanding of Gurbani and he is shrewd and he used Gurbani wrongly purposefully to fulfill his own desires and raise money or business. In this case, both Mr. A and Mr. B are obviously making a mistake, but think my friend are these mistakes equivalent??

5)That his praise of nakedness and wrong usage of Gurbani to provide instances was right.

from past 2 years i am hearing maskeen ji's katha on etc channel punjabi and i never heard him praising nakedness.as far as wrong usage of gurbani is concerned i am repeating again majority of sikhs are doing this.
I repeat again, "Two wrongs do not make a right" I will try to find the reference for this, give me some time. Its good that you pointed that you have never listened him talking about Khajuraho paintings and praising them. This means that it will take some time for me to find where it has been said.

6)That his extra focus on Dasam Granth was right and justified.

well mr.ghagha should accept that majority of sikhs beleive that dasam granth is written by guru gobind singh.
Nope, this is wrong. If many people are doing it wrong this does not mean everyone should be doing the same wrong thing. Remember my friend,
  1. majority of people believed and did different to what Guru Nanak believed or thought in Guru Nanak's Dev ji's time. Would it have been right to tell this to Guru Nanak Dev ji,
    1. " Majority of people think that Earth is on the horn of a bull, you should also accept this"
    2. "Majority of people think that woman is inferior to man, you should also accept this"
    3. "Majority of people think that society should be divided into sects, some are high class some other are low class - you should accept this as well"
    4. ..................................
    5. .................................. etc.
maskeen also several times cleared miscoception to general public about the famous quote of guru gobind singh "mahakal kalka aradhi" that kalka is not goddess but reference to god.
Good Job! Thanks to Maskeen ji for enlightening we illiterate Sikhs. But I think every Sikh should be able to read and understand Gurbani on his own and this should be clear to everyone that God has been called by various names in gurbani as well. In older days, there were not many educated people and there were not many means of communications like we have today so there was need of "katha wachaks" etc. Let me quote another quote from the same Bhai Kulbir Singh and Inder Singh Ghagga's debate, "Bhadey de tattoyaan ton karai Bani da ki labh?" (might not be the exact words but the central meaning is precise).

7)That angels did come to listen to his lectures and they were visible only to Maskeen ji.

again mr.ghagha is going overboard.he never said fairies come to listen
his katha and are visible only to him.what he said is that if good person dies his soul wander in gurudwara.this is a some kind of after death theory by him.
Do you think this is right? Do you actually believe this is true?
sometimes these things are necessary to attract general public
Pardon me, but I strongly differ here. Are you saying that lying is necessary to attract people?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
one thing mr. ghagha should understand that majority of sikhs are living in india the sadhu , sants baba,s who day and night propagate their theories.many sikhs are foolishly starting following them
even if maskeen was doing business i support him because

1) he was not promoting meaningless rituals like idol worship or special days
2)he was increasing faith of people in god and guru granth sahib
3)he was also clearing misunderstanding that guru gobind singh worshipped
goddess and said that according to guru granth sahib anybody who worship
goddess will reincarnate as women.please undersatnd their are many sikhs
in india who regularly worship "mata"
4)unlike another jatha he do not have his own rehat maryada
5)criticising fake sants
6)advocating simple lifestyle with faith in guru granth sahib and god
etc

its better for sikhs to hear katha of maskeen rather than following any sadhu,sant.
as i earlier said the sikhs are facing much bigger issues.unity of the panth is must.
Right!. This is what he is trying to do. Read carefully all his work and you will notice that Maskeen ji is not the only thing that Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga is pointing to. He is mentioning many other issues that he wants to the Khalsa to know and think about.
if mr.ghagha want to find faults in every preacher then he will make
more enemies than friends and ulimately responsible for disunity of panth
the sikhism is facing much bigger issues
Truth should fear nobody. A thinker and visionary is enemy of nobody, its the ignorant public who thinks he is the enemy. The thinkers and visionaries only want to encourage us to think and act with wisedom, they have no vested interests. Nobody is fond of putting the years and years of their life in something which is not generating good money like "katha vachan" and nobody is fond of putting their life in danger by talking against the fanatics like those who attacked Prof. Inder Singh in a gurudwara in Canada - its their faith and dedication to the Sikh panth that is keeping them encouraged and motivated to wake up the concious of people like you and me.
and the biggest of them is fanaticism compared to them maskeen is vey minor issue.
regards.
kanwardeep singh
Yes, I agree fanaticism in any form is a big problem and it should not be encouraged. But there is difference between fanaticism and self-respect and responsibility.

"Ve sardara, sahukara, pind deya lambadara ve hun jago ayiyaa
jatta jaag bai, bai hun jago ayiyaa"

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

In Anand Sahib we have fairys come to sing verse,Parain Sabad Gavan Ayian.Is that a lie?Or a way to let people understand?

People like Missioaries have killed faith more in belivers say Sikhs then even convert any good numbers of Sikhs to faith.We are not lfet or communist or Budhist ideolgy that we belive truth only whichn is visible.

Bilawal mahal Panjavan,Chhant.
Topest,limitless,endless Lord
who knows your qulties
Salvaged while singing,
salvged while listening
Many sins get destroyed
Salvaged the Animals and Ghost
Let the Stone crooss(River)./

Slave Nanak is in refuge,Allways ready to sacrfise the self.

so there are many realms in whihc sihnce has not gone.So present people say that it is false but when we reach them,then we say Gurus are correct.

Say quatum theory is there full in Japu Sahib.Big Bang theroy or sturdy state theory finds simliarty with Ek nur Te Sab Jag Upjaya.

A scintest will never follow the way of Ghugga Ji ,which is rigid,scince says nothing is impossible.all could have reason behind,Many things explained but furthet mnay things described only.
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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Moreover, Kanwardeep what I am trying to say here is not just limited to use of single line as long as it is used in right context. Purposefully, misscommunicating Gurbani is wrong and should not be appreciated wherever it is done by whoever. Now there can be 2 people Mr. A and Mr. B who used gurbani wrongly. Mr. A have used it wrongly just because he/she was ignorant or did not have deep understanding of Gurbani. Whereas, Mr. B had understanding of Gurbani and he is shrewd and he used Gurbani wrongly purposefully to fulfill his own desires and raise money or business. In this case, both Mr. A and Mr. B are obviously making a mistake, but think my friend are these mistakes equivalent??

i don't think he was misusing gurbani for raising money.I think he has his own interpretations of gurbani which he he was propagating
tell me by using line"baal kanya ko baap pyara" will give him money

Nope, this is wrong. If many people are doing it wrong this does not mean everyone should be doing the same wrong thing. Remember my friend,
majority of people believed and did different to what Guru Nanak believed or thought in Guru Nanak's Dev ji's time. Would it have been right to tell this to Guru Nanak Dev ji,
" Majority of people think that Earth is on the horn of a bull, you should also accept this"
"Majority of people think that woman is inferior to man, you should also accept this"
"Majority of people think that society should be divided into sects, some are high class some other are low class - you should accept this as well"
..................................
.................................. etc.
>>

as i earlier said majority of sikhs beleive in dasam granth they will continue to
propagate it.i you or mr.ghagha cannot stop them doing this.sorry to say but the above is islamic thinking who beleive that following any religion apart from islam is wrong and that's why they criticise other religions.please remember both pro and anti dasam granth have arguements.at best mr.ghagha can debate with pro dasam granth supporters to prove them
that dasam granth is wrong


Do you think this is right? Do you actually believe this is true?

well i beleive in souls and nobody is exactly sure what happens after death
people generaly ask these questions from religious preachers and they have to answer it with their mind.

Pardon me, but I strongly differ here. Are you saying that lying is necessary to attract people?

i beleive some tactics are necessary to attract people . generally
there are very few people which are intellectuals majority of people have limited iq and they don't want to go into theories.there is a fair chance that
they will be ruined by following some fake baba.if by applying some tactics
we can stop them there is nothing wrong in it.

as vijaydeep ji rightly pointed out these missionaries are mixing too much atheisism and science with the religion .it eventualy will make sikhs atheisits

kanwardeep singh
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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Truth should fear nobody. A thinker and visionary is enemy of nobody, its the ignorant public who thinks he is the enemy. The thinkers and visionaries only want to encourage us to think and act with wisedom, they have no vested interests. Nobody is fond of putting the years and years of their life in something which is not generating good money like "katha vachan" and nobody is fond of putting their life in danger by talking against the fanatics like those who attacked Prof. Inder Singh in a gurudwara in Canada - its their faith and dedication to the Sikh panth that is keeping them encouraged and motivated to wake up the concious of people like you and me.

tell me who will decide what is true what is false.every person think that he is right while others are wrong that does not mean we should start criticising everybody for not accepting our thinking.please remember the defination of right and wrong is quite complex what you think right could be wrong for me and what i think right could be wrong for you.only when things start crossing limits then only criticism is right.i think mr.ghagha should limit his criticism
for those people which are crossing limits or as i earlier said he will make more enemies than friends.

btw don't say that thinker and visionaries are no enemy of nobody.karl
marx and adolf hitler created theories which resulted in millions of death
and they too thought that they were right.
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
tell me who will decide what is true what is false.every person think that he is right while others are wrong that does not mean we should start criticising everybody for not accepting our thinking.please remember the defination of right and wrong is quite complex what you think right could be wrong for me and what i think right could be wrong for you.
I agree, what might seem right to one person may seem wrong to other person. It is only the time which will decide what was wrong and what was right.
The writer is not criticizing anybody just because they are not accepting his thinking. He is simply asking the Khalsa to be conscious and think. The Maskee ji related article is just one article from the numerous artcles that he has written. Just reading the article that yours truly translated to English might not help to understand fully what points Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga is bringing forth. I am trying to listen to all the lectures that are available from Maskeen ji as well to better understand this issue. Simiarly, I recommend others to read all the articles written by Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga and then we can have a better understanding without binding our minds to just one side. For those who dont know, you can read the Punjab articles at POFESSOR INDER SINGH GHAGGA'S ARTICLES

only when things start crossing limits then only criticism is right.i think mr.ghagha should limit his criticism
for those people which are crossing limits or as i earlier said he will make more enemies than friends.
Critics are an important part of a society. I'm not convinced that they should worry about the ratio of friends and foes.

btw don't say that thinker and visionaries are no enemy of nobody.karl marx and adolf hitler created theories which resulted in millions of death and they too thought that they were right.
I may not have used right words to convey what I had in my mind here. But I do agree with you that Hitler's policies were wrong. Also I can never relate him to Sikh philosophy because he imposed his thoughts on the masses with force and was a dictator. Sikhism, on the other hand, does not support Dictatorship and is the staunch supporter of Democractic way of governance.

I think I messed up my words and that made you feel something else. When I said "Visionaries and Thinkers" I was actually thinking about the likes of Dr. Ganda Singh ji, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Gaini Gurdit Singh ji etc. and was "thinking inside the Sikh circles". On the other hand, my words were general they did not seem to put across what I wanted to say. My bad here!
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Gurfateh

In Anand Sahib we have fairys come to sing verse,"Parain Sabad Gavan Ayian".Is that a lie?Or a way to let people understand?

Hey Sachey Patshah !! .....My friend, from where are you getting this
interpertation of Anand Sahib????...I am shocked !!!..and sad.

pariyaan = raaga diya pariyaan, raagniyaa

or in plain English "pariyaan" (or Parain as you spell) = Harmonies of music.

It is not the word Pari from Hindi (which means Fairy in English).
I request you to not to misinterpret Gurbani like this, ......Please !!!

Pasted below is the para from Anand Sahib, the line you have talked above is present there.
Please read it and try to see yourself if what you are saying is right.


ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਅਨੰਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਏ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

anand bha-i-aa meri maa-ay satguroo mai paa-i-aa.

I am in ecstasy, O my mother, for I have found my True Guru.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਤ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਜੀਆ ਵਾਧਾਈਆ ॥

satgur ta paa-i-aa sahj saytee man vajee-aa vaaDhaa-ee-aa.

I have found the True Guru, with intuitive ease, and my mind vibrates with the music of bliss.

ਰਾਗ ਰਤਨ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਪਰੀਆ ਸਬਦ ਗਾਵਣ ਆਈਆ ॥

raag ratan parvaar paree-aa sabad gaavan aa-ee-aa.

The jewelled melodies and their related harmonies have come to sing the Word of the Shabad.

ਸਬਦੋ ਤ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਹਰੀ ਕੇਰਾ ਮਨਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਵਸਾਇਆ ॥

sabdo ta gaavhu haree kayraa man jinee vasaa-i-aa.

The Lord dwells within the minds of those who sing the Shabad.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੋਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

kahai naanak anand ho-aa satguroo mai paa-i-aa. ||1||

Says Nanak, I am in ecstasy, for I have found my True Guru. ||1||

---------------
It will be disastrous if we just take single lines from Gurbani and compare them with the words in Hindi
without actually understanding Gurmukhi.

Please use "Mahan kosh" or other Punjabi dictionaries for the words which you find confusing.

Khalsa Ji, I again request please do not commit these blunders.
I can understand we all are prone to mistakes, but please
do not knowingly distort the words of Gurus in the future.


Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep



 
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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Sri Dasam Granth sahib Ji is also Truth's exaltation being expressed through Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Only those can realize this, who have received once the sip of Naam Amrit by God's Grace. For others this angooree is perhaps sour, what to say about those who feel it is bitter.
Truth also in sugar has a taste. Anybody can taste it. The expression of it in words through Jeeves may appear different though. Has someone ever come across a person explaining bitterness of sugar? Can he convince us that sugar is not sweet? Still, some people try it. I feel they better seek sugar instead criticizing it.

**************

Some Jeeves produce and spit poison whole life in fear, hate or anger. It does not matter what they eat.
Do not trust them.

**************

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji is the unique treasure for humankind. One Gem of it can decorate anybody's crown sitting on a throne by truth.
I feel pity for those who suffer in poverty being so near to this treasure.


Balbir Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Gurfateh

look at the link below

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=kulbir+singh

but das further want to add that faith factor is less in missioanry so they avoid to contront AKJ people,this may give wrong message to thier supporter.

They have fear factor in them.They need to be ready for scarfise for thier ideolgy as AKJ guys are.

Fear factor..sacrifice..??? this looks more like "might is right..." threats when logic fails....classic pick up line of the Taliban Terrorists who blow up trains and planes...careful..inciting such is not welcome in post 9/11 world...are the Gandasseh and long swords etc in the debate..supposed to "show we are ready to KILL (sacrifice)..and put the "fear factor" in the opposing side.. I heard a few such comments from some on the "missionary side"..but now i am hearing the same from vijaydeep ji..."akj side" as well....so there is something there ?? the gandassah swords weapons were meant to strike the fear of God ?? Sorry for them...if that was their intention..might is NOT always RIGHT. Such "threats" from the Akal takhat by Dhumma and vedanti also didnt frighten Joginder Singh of Spokesman....the daily is still growing at breakneck speed..much to the chagrin of its jallandhar rival (who supports ALL...from Namdharees to radha soamis to Nirankaris baaba virsa and etc etc etc - whereas Spokesman only Supports Akal takhat Sikh rehat maryada. Period. We must learn to "tolerate" opposing viewpoints as long as not sacrilegious/insulting. People do have viewpoints you know ??

Gyani jarnail Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Gyani Sahib Ji,

Panth is here what he talk about on mid as in practice,so das only want Missoaries to be able to fight fear factor forced upon them.for that they need to be fit.Had Guru did not take swrod and remained witt intellect only.Das would not hve Sikh.

to Bhai Akshdeep singh Ji.Das has saw all as you said in PM and send you reply.Kindly have look at it.Das is soory for being away As das was revising Holu Kuran.
 

hakimpuria

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Re: INSULTING OF OWN BROTHER IN PRESENCE OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI

ivjYdIp isMG jI,
gurUU Pqih pRvwn hovy, is~K kOm dy ieh duSmx (ey. ky. jy ) gurU dy id~qy hoey bwxy ip`Cy luky hoey bRwmxw qoN isvw hor kuJ nhI[Akwl qKq vloN pRvwnq rihq mirXwdw nUM ieh mMndy nhI[gurU kI sMgq iv`c bYT ky pRSwdw Skx qON ienkwrI hn[keI qW pRSwd LYx qoN pihlW hI iKsk jWdy hn ikaUNik ieh lohy dy bwty iv`c nhI sI r`iKAw igAw[ gurU mhWrwj dy pUrx srUp nMU mMndy nhI [gurbwxI dI ivcwr krx iv~c XkIn nhI r~Kdy[auhnw hI storW qON plwsitk dy BWifAw iv`c KrIidAw Kwxw ienHw dy Gr AwieAw piv`qr ho jWdw hY qy dUsry guris`KW dy h`QW iv`c ienHW leI BirSt ho jWdw hY[Asl iv`c ieh is`K kOm nUM l`gIAW brwhmxI jokW hn[ mqlv leI Akwl qKq dy jQydwr dw dr jw KVkwieAw qy Awpxy hI iek Brw dI p`g lhw id`qI[ho skdw hY aus iv`c kuJ aUxqweIAW BI hox[pr ieh lok kyvl sMG pwVx qy isr Gumwxw hI jwxdy hn[ienW dI nwsmJI dI imswl dyKxI hY qW dyKo vYbsweIt-
singh sabha canada.com ( vIfIau PweIl- tkswlIAW dI burSwgrdI). A`j kl Drm dy nW qy pKMfIAW ny A`q cu`kI hoeI hY qy swfy i`s`K AwgU ienw kol pUrI qrW ivk cu`ky hn[s`cy pwqSwh A`gy Ardws hY ik swfw ienW pKMfIAW qoN Cutkwrw krvw[
 

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