Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darbar

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Admin Singh, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Admin SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    5,977
    Likes Received:
    5,043
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Loading...


  3. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    It was as expected from a badal cronnie. Avoiding its reply is not going to help him save Badal from his deeds.
    But one question arises from the situation:-
    When all around the world in our Gurdwara Sahibs we allow people with disabilities and those who have problem in sitting on floor to sit on chairs in the last rows of the Darbar Hall than what was wrong in Badals this act. He is unable to sit after his knee operations and if he had sat on floor in front of some Babas that was before this knee operation. Lets not make this an issue seeing the facts.
    I request my learned friends on SPN forum to give their views on this aspect.
    Regards and Guru fateh.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    Historian SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    hahahahahahahahhahahahhahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha:happysingh::happy:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    IMHO..the Akhand Paath at Akal Takhat took place around the murder of the Dera Ballan baba in Vienna.( In his memeory - which itself is wrong as He opposed Akal takhat/sggs/and sat at par with the SGGS which led to his killing ....and his "bhog" also took place around same time in Dera Ballan jalandhar...so its a period of a few days apart at the most...in AT in presence of SGGS badla sat on a chair..in Dera Ballan he sat on the floor at the feet of the ballan dera chief. Badal regularly viists Beas..he ahs never sat on a chair there...or at Virsa Saadhs gobind sadan delhi..always on the floor..
    Anyone can correct me ...
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    Gyanni jee,
    Thanks for the updation but my question in not answered. I have ask for your views whether we can sit on a chair or some other raise level in presence of SGGS jee, if one is having problems in sitting and as whats happening in almost all Gurdwaras world wide.
    Regards and Guru Fateh
    Hardip Singh
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    Hardip Ji, Gurfateh.

    This question is NOT addressed in the SRM of Akal Takhat. In fcat it is specifically PROHIBITED....

    BUT of recent years..more and more SIKHS..men and women have been having KNEE problems..joint pains..etc etc..and LOCAL Gurdwaras in the Sikh Diaspora began to palce small stools...at firts OUTSIDE the Main Doors...then slowly as they gained "acceptance" of a sort...( many such "disabled" had sons and duaghters elected to Gurdwara Parbhandak comittees...or ahd friedns..relatives etc which helped their case)...these Stools began to INCH their way INTO the Main Darbar Halls...first right at the Back..then Mid way..and NOW some have moved right to the FRONT parallel to the Ragi/Kirtaniaysh Stages..but still alongside the WALLS so as to not cause obstruction. BTW I have YET to see a SINGLE GURDWARA in INDIA having such an arrangement..although I know a lot of SIKHS in India also suffer from Knee pains...?????).

    ALL this means is that as per the Right given to Sikhs to make appropriate changes to Maryada....sikhs have done so....Guru Ji Gave us this RIGHT.....although done on an adhoc basis..place to place instead of passing a Univrersal SRM addendum as shoudl ahve been doen by the SGPC/Akal Takhat. Sadly in this section also the SGPC has FAILED to give sikhs direction.

    Historically the First person to be sanctioned for sitting in Darbar Sahib on a Cushion and Gadella at his back was the BEDI BABA..and Govt TOUT SIR KHEM SINGH BEDI. This was one of the incidents that began the SINGH SABHA LEHR..as this baba had then misused his powers to get proff Gurmukh Singh excommunicated..one allegation was that this LOW CASTE was a "BEDI (by extension Guru nanak) Hater " !!! This same baba Tout was the Main Force behind the SODHAK COMMITTEE of Dsm Granth !!!

    Although personally I would have a great battle within to ever sit in the presence of SGGS on a stool....no matter what pains I have..that is a moot question as i am perfectly helathy so far...BUT I PRAY I NEVER HAVE TO !!! But I dont dispute a brother's/mothers right to attend the Gurus Darbar..even on a stool...its between them and the GURU.:happysingh::happy:
     
    • Like Like x 9
  8. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Re: Akal Takht Jathedar Gurcharan Singh's response to Badal Sitting on Chair in Darba

    Gyanni jee,
    This word "PROHIBTED" was exactly I wanted know. Will you please elobrate it more, I will be highly obliged.
    Rest what you had said in your post is perfactly right and I do agree with you. In India too, almost all local Singh Sabhas have allowed old and disabled people to sit on stools along the outer perifery of the Darbar Hall but not SGPC or DGMC.
    Guru Fateh jee.
    Hardip Singh
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    hardip Singh Ji, Gurfateh.

    Section 3 - Chapter 4 point n.

    Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

    states:

    Sitting on a cushion, a distinctive seat, a chair, a stool, a cot, etc. or in any distinctive position in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib or within the congregation is contrary to Gurmat(Guru's way).


    This means ALL such stools, etc are PROHIBITED for ALL...and Cannot be allowed WITHIN THE CONGREGATION..means INSIDE the Darbar sahib Hall.

    The Good thing about this is that the SRM is Man Made..and can be changed as per Sarbatt Khalsa whereby the Panth agrees - firts at local level..and then at World level after consultations etc.

    I am SURPRISED the SGPC is such a stickler on this one..while happily allowing Tallian, talls, artees, deeps, and ghee jyots and LOTS of other things NOT ALLOWED... etc etc which are also STRICTLY PROHIBITED !!( can be seen at harmandir sahib/sgpc takhats etc):happysingh::happykaur:
     
    • Like Like x 7
  10. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    Historian SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    I really do not have a problem with people sitting on chairs. The simple solution is to elevate the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to a higher platform.

    So what you couls have is a Church type configuration, with Bani in effect on a stage and Sangat on chairs at a lower level.

    To my mind that is the point is it not, for Sikhs to show they are metaphorically lower than there Guru, so it matters not where they sit.

    I fid this funny about Badal, but I really think this table chair business is a red herring. It diverts us. Just like the table and chair business is hogwah. People from the East have not right to impose their standards on the West, and in the same manner the West has no right to impose their standards on the East.

    One has to look at historically why chairs were not used. Simple, most people could not afford them.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Most Indians still cant afford chairs and tables.... Just visit any RURAL SCHOOL and see the children sitting on the FLOORS...or even OUTSIDE under the TREES. Very very few schools have tables and chairs for the students...

    At an election I saw the Election Candidates filling up FORMS under a tree sitting on the ground...

    SITTING HIGHER is an Eastern Fixation...just see how the Jatts/Higher Castes Thakurs etc sit on MANJA..while the lower castes squat on the floor beside them...or see how a "respected" person is NEVER allowed to sit on the WRONG (LEG) side of the Manja...He/she will be automatically asked to sit on the RIGHT (HEAD) side of the manja...

    SIKHISM is a Modern Religion..we have to change
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    And I AGREE..this is another RED HERRING..just like the DG debate....to keep the Sikh Panth ENTANGLED in useless arguments....while the EVIL ONES complete their destruction... BE WARNED !!! STAY FOCUSSED..
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. dr.gsmann

    dr.gsmann
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    3
    Param pyare Khalsa ji !
    Gur Fateh!
    I being an orthopaedician do direct many of my patients to sit on stool or chair and sitting on stool in front of Juggo Jug Atal Guru Granth sahib ji is a controversial subject. If a true gursikh suffring from some or the other problem sits in Guru darbar on stool, whatever come may be his physical appearance or position can be justified as spirtual presence is more important than physical aasana's. But as in this case of Mr Badal it is really condemable as we have seen both the footages. The comments of Akal Takhat Cheif are highly condemnable as two different parameters can not be applied for sikhs following one Akalpurkh
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page