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Akal Takhat Hukumnama Regarding Interfaith Marriages

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by drkhalsa, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    [​IMG]





    TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH


    Ik Ongkar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, Sri Amritsar
    Giani Joginder Singh, Jethadar
    Date: 16-8-2007

    anand Sanskar
    " Marriage Ceremony"

    This is a message to all the Sikh Sangat that according to the Rehat Maryada only Sikh couples (male/female) can engage in the Anand Karaj Ceremony. If the couple or either one of them is not a Sikh, then they must embrace the Sikh faith. This includes that they must change their second name to Singh or Kaur in their official document before the Marriage Ceremony. (e.g. driving licence, identity card, passport).
    (signed)
    (Joginder Singh)
    Jethadar
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    What about hindu's which are practising hinduism and sikhism and who have faith in guru granth sahib.There are many hindu's who marry in gurudwara even if both partners are non sikh.
     
  4. TGill

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    There are really many hindus especially Sindhis who mostly marry their children with anand Karaj ceremony, they have huge love for Guru Nanak Sahib.
    These Jathedars are totally poisining the whole environment and making Sikhism go on the lines of hardcore Islam by trying to convert people in very subtle ways. Sometime back they tried to convert hindus into sikhs by promising them admission into institutes under some quota if they convert to sikhism.
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    last year my when my brother wasa studying in local college of haryana one of his teacher was going to get married.my brother was quite surprised when he told him that they are doing simple marriage in gurudwara.in that case both the partners were non sikh.If gurudwara's stop doing these types of marriages then many people will drift away from teachings of guru's
     
  6. mystic

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    Ik Ongkar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    This Hukamnama was also encouraged and instigated by the actions of some "hardcore fundementalists" within the UK.

    There are a number of issues that need to be addressed:

    • <LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: blue; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">then they MUST embrace the Sikh faith” what is the difference between a Muslim converting someone to Islam on the premise of marriage and this? This is an act of conversion, where do Sikhs practice conversion today or their history? <LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: blue; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">Where in the Sikh teachings (according to SGGS) is such an act “anti-sikhi”, especially as we (Sikhs) do not recognize distinction on caste, race or religion? <LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: blue; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 36.0pt">If Sikhs “see” all as equals, why do we insist on this inequality
    • Finally, according to the SRM how many marriages have taken place of Sikhs with Sikhs in our Gurdwaras todate? ( bearing in mind that a Sikh is also defined in the SRM)


    E.g SRM states a Sikh is…
    : Any human being who faithfully believes in
    i. One Immortal Being,
    ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
    iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
    iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

    v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

    A Sikh's personal life should comprehend:-
    i. Meditation on
    Nam (Divine Substance, also translated as the God's attributed self) and the scriptures,
    ii. Leading life according to the Guru's teachings and
    iii. Altruistic voluntary service.


    1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).
    2. He/she should recite the following scriptural compositions every day :
    a. The Japu, the Jaapu and the Ten Sawayyas (Quartets) - beginning "Sarwag sudh"-- in the morning.
    b. Sodar Rehras comprising the following compositions:-
    i) nine hymns of the Guru Granth Sahib, occuring in the holy book after the Japuji Sahib, (The Phrase in Italic has been interpolated by the translator to help locate the hymns more conveniently.) the first of which begins with "Sodar" and the last of which ends with "saran pare ki rakho sarma",
    ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai",
    iii) the Sawayya beginning with the words "pae gahe jab te tumre",
    iv) the Dohira beginning with the words "sagal duar kau chhad kai".
    v) the first five and the last pauris (stanzas) of anand Sahib (The object of reciting the Anand as part of Sodar Rehras or at the conclusion of the congregational gathering is just to express joy and gratitude for the communion with the Guru ) and.
    vi) the Mundawani and the slok Mahla 5 beginning "tera kita jato nahi"- in the evening after sunset.
    (c) The Sohila - to be recited at night before going to bed. The morning and evening recitations should be concluded with the Ardas (formal supplication litany).


    How many Anand Karaj have taken place where the "Sikhs" follow the definition above?

    This will show the hypocracy within the Punjabi community. This is NOT a sikh issue, its a Punjabi issue.

    Gurfateh
     
  7. mystic

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    Ik Ongkar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    This Hukamnama was also encouraged and instigated by the actions of some "hardcore fundementalists" within the UK.

    There are a number of issues that need to be addressed:

    • then they MUST embrace the Sikh faith” what is the difference between a Muslim converting someone to Islam on the premise of marriage and this? This is an act of conversion, where do Sikhs practice conversion today or their history?
    • Where in the Sikh teachings (according to SGGS) is such an act “anti-sikhi”, especially as we (Sikhs) do not recognize distinction on caste, race or religion?
    • If Sikhs “see” all as equals, why do we insist on this inequality
    • Finally, according to the SRM how many marriages have taken place of Sikhs with Sikhs in our Gurdwaras todate? ( bearing in mind that a Sikh is also defined in the SRM)

    E.g SRM states a Sikh is…
    : Any human being who faithfully believes in
    i. One Immortal Being,
    ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
    iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
    iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

    v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

    A Sikh's personal life should comprehend:-
    i. Meditation on
    Nam (Divine Substance, also translated as the God's attributed self) and the scriptures,
    ii. Leading life according to the Guru's teachings and
    iii. Altruistic voluntary service.


    1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).
    2. He/she should recite the following scriptural compositions every day :
    a. The Japu, the Jaapu and the Ten Sawayyas (Quartets) - beginning "Sarwag sudh"-- in the morning.
    b. Sodar Rehras comprising the following compositions:-
    i) nine hymns of the Guru Granth Sahib, occuring in the holy book after the Japuji Sahib, (The Phrase in Italic has been interpolated by the translator to help locate the hymns more conveniently.) the first of which begins with "Sodar" and the last of which ends with "saran pare ki rakho sarma",
    ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai",
    iii) the Sawayya beginning with the words "pae gahe jab te tumre",
    iv) the Dohira beginning with the words "sagal duar kau chhad kai".
    v) the first five and the last pauris (stanzas) of Anand Sahib (The object of reciting the Anand as part of Sodar Rehras or at the conclusion of the congregational gathering is just to express joy and gratitude for the communion with the Guru ) and.
    vi) the Mundawani and the slok Mahla 5 beginning "tera kita jato nahi"- in the evening after sunset.
    (c) The Sohila - to be recited at night before going to bed. The morning and evening recitations should be concluded with the Ardas (formal supplication litany).




    How many Anand Karaj have taken place where the "Sikhs" follow the definition above?

    This will show the hypocracy within the Punjabi community. This is NOT a sikh issue, its a Punjabi issue, now highjacked by punjabis disguised as Sikhs. A Sikh does NOT accept any distinction based on caste, race, etc. But a Punjabi will not even allow their kids to have an intercaste marriage.




    Gurfateh
     
  8. deepsingh87

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    Aanand kaaraj ceremony has become a ritual. I highly doubt the two parties getting married even know what is being said, let alone the deep meanings (including me). So its highly unlikely that gurmat will be followed to its highest extent. I think there's nothing wrong with the hukamnama from Akal Tahkat. If you take instruction from Guru Shaib you are a sikh, following the hukam you are a GurSikh. There just saying stop wasting time, if you have the basic sikhi saroop at least you will give some hope to Guru Shaib that mabye this person can follow the hukam. Many accounts have been filmed and recorded which prove that many sikhs or shejdari or sometimes even amrit dharri who perform the anaad karaj ceremony usually party after it and get drunk, start fights, thus making the anand karaj a mere ritual. I think what Akal Takhats is saying is at least adopt Sikhi rules, and follow them. It's my personal belief that no one can convert to sikhi because the moment you convert it would mean that you are Brahm Gyani. And you truly convert when you reach this stage. It's just my opinion the concept of conversion belongs to other religion's not Sikhi.
     
  9. dalsingh

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    I think this is the first sensible hukumnama from the Akal Takhat jathedars in years. It is right that we should at least aim to bring people under the umbrella of Sikhism.

    This is good because it doesn't make unrealistic demands on people and gently brings them to the quom. Sikhism is big on symbols, and the new initiate will experience that with the name change.

    Personally i think it will be abused but it is still better than the situation before. Let the people adopt a sehajdhari identity first and explore Sikhism. The emphasis on Sikhs raising their kids Sikh is excellent.

    Good news, but I don't know how this will be encouraged on a street level.
     
  10. TGill

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    Dal Singh ji,

    How can you bring people under the umbrella of sikhism when you're unable to keep the people, who already under this umbrella, dry . The umbrella you are talking about is totally broken, it is totally shattered, it is not the umbrella Guruji created. The real umbrella is saved only by chosen few not by these jathedars.

    These Jathedars have lowliest of intelligence I have ever seen and they are trying to make sikh quam. Sikh is not qaum it is a vichaar, the quam originates from that vichaar (please think about this).... If you are so worried about the quam then intensify the vichaar. You'll have to show by your deeds, you will have to exemplify. You'll have to lead. These hollow actions will only poison the vichaar.

    Guru Gobind Singh ji is a most brilliant, just, intelligent, brave, powerful and biggest brahmgyani and these dull jathedars are thinking that they are equivalent to him. They can't teach their own children and they are trying to make a quam. Such an irony !!

    If you are created like a lion then act like a lion and not like a fox. If your objective is to be a saint, then be lowly as a saint and don't be egoistic like a theif. People who love Guru sahib, whether he is a hindu or musalman, it is his/her love which makes them eligible to recite Anand Karaj. Many mughals fought from Guru Gobind singh ji's side, how many of them were converted to sikhism by the Guru. They had love for the Guru and that was enough.... You think you are bigger than the Guru !

    These hollow Jathedars, they don't even have common sense (intelligence is a different game) , I don't know who made them the leaders.. These people don't have anything except their ego. How can these guys make a quam is beyond my understanding?

    Dal Singh ji you shout a lot when Islami fundamentals try to convert sikh girls into islam. What is the difference between these fundamentalists and the jathedars, please explain if you can ?


    To become a sikh, the guru's sikh -
    Pehla maran kabool, jivan ki chad aas.
    ho sabna ki rainka to aao hamare paas.

    So please tell me how many real sikhs can these culprits make... I can only laugh at you so called sikhs and your leaders ...

    Where are the real ones, are there any.... I know there are few left.... And they will come and pouce on you foxes, the day will come, just wait !!
     
  11. TGill

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    Deep Singh Ji,

    Quote: if you have the basic sikhi saroop at least you will give some hope to Guru Shaib that mabye this person can follow the hukam.

    - I thought guruji give hope to whole mankind, why do Guruji need any hope whatsoever. Could you please clarify ?

    Quote: It's my personal belief that no one can convert to sikhi because the moment you convert it would mean that you are Brahm Gyani. And you truly convert when you reach this stage.

    - Then why such a hypocrity to try to convert innocents.

    Quote: Aanand kaaraj ceremony has become a ritual.

    - anand Kaaraj is a ritual, it was created as a ritual for marriages, but is created by the Guru with his love for divine and it does mean something in this physical world as well as the eternal world. Then who are you or these jathedars to decide who should use it and who should not. It is for whole humanity.

    Why are we trying to limit Guru ji love to so called sikhs, it belongs to the humanity not just to sikhs. Who are you to say that Guruji want this or that, if he want someone to take up his saroop, he will make him do that, you need not worry. Your efforts can only create the opposite.

    The only duty that these dumb head jathedars can do is keep themselves at Guru's feet. Don't become masters themselves..
     
  12. dalsingh

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    That last bit sounds like some paranoid prophesy. The Sikh community (quom) covers a wide spectrum of people. I agree the jathedars have usually been moronic with global decisions but as someone living in the west, I feel this current one is pretty good.

    Asides from the spiritual element of Sikhi is the political dimension. Today numerical representation means everything due to democracy. This has to be faced and admitted. Even the severe losses that Sikhs suffered at partition was due to numerical differences in populations which allowed Muslims to opt for a separate state.

    No one here is condoning pressurised and forced conversions so equating this with that kind of activity is wrong. My feelings is that maybe the new blood may rejuvenate the "broken umbrella" as you put it.
     
  13. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    You are absolutely right in today's democratic numerical strength is everything.Most of the sikhs problem in this world is because the numerical strength of sikhs is so low that no politician hear their demand.Every thing in this world is distribuited according to numerical strength of the community.
     
  14. TGill

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    Dear All,

    Quote : That last bit sounds like some paranoid prophesy. The Sikh community (quom) covers a wide spectrum of people. I agree the jathedars have usually been moronic with global decisions but as someone living in the west, I feel this current one is pretty good.

    - Well prophecies are always paranoid, otherwise they won't be prophecies.:) Can you please explain what spectrum of people sikh qaum covers ? Can you please tell me any reason why current one is good ? What do mean by the west (europe, US or Canada) cos I've never seen anyone saying current one is good in US and Canada.

    Quote Dal Singh ji: Asides from the spiritual element of Sikhi is the political dimension. Today numerical representation means everything due to democracy. This has to be faced and admitted. Even the severe losses that Sikhs suffered at partition was due to numerical differences in populations which allowed Muslims to opt for a separate state.

    Quote KDS ji: You are absolutely right in today's democratic numerical strength is everything.Most of the sikhs problem in this world is because the numerical strength of sikhs is so low that no politician hear their demand.Every thing in this world is distribuited according to numerical strength of the community.

    - You know why people don't listen to you, not cos you are low in number, but cos you have made leaders with no brains to talk, who will talk for you, these jathedars, only God knows who will listen then. Why don't you answer the question I posted (People who love Guru sahib, whether he is a hindu or musalman, it is his/her love which makes them eligible to recite Anand Karaj. Many mughals fought from Guru Gobind singh ji's side, how many of them were converted to sikhism by the Guru. They had love for the Guru and that was enough.... You think you are bigger than the Guru ?)

    If you think you are numerically insignificant and need more men into your bllind belief system then I don't know what to say but I will say one thing that such people are disgrace to Guru sahib. He had 40 singhs with him in Battle of chamkaur and I think you know how big was the army. To tell what you wanna say you don't need a herd of sheep , you just need a lion, a single lion ! If you think that is not true then tell me what sikhism are you talking about ?


    Quote: My feelings is that maybe the new blood may rejuvenate the "broken umbrella" as you put it.

    - The umbrella that is broken is not Guru's it is urs. Guru's umbrella can't break. I don't know if you need young blood like us or not but I know that unless you create sound minds you can't create sound qaum. These jathedars are only poisining young blood.
     
  15. dalsingh

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    I agree, but we have to stay chardi kala, I think the vast majority of people know what the jathedars are all about. But it is foolish not to consider political trends of numerical representation. The days when bravery and strength counted for power are over, technology saw to that. It is time we used our brains more than brawn. Or at least both LOL

    Why are you getting so upset anyway? How is this effecting you?
     
  16. deepsingh87

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    TGill and pyari jio, das di bentai hai, that you keep the concept of no one is 100% right no one is 100% wrong in you mind whists reading my humble response.

    The decisions made by the main sikh bodies effect each and everyone of us. Because of the lack of organization some incorrect decisions get made. Akal Takhat is trying to assemble some sort of base by joining all Sikhs. I do not know what is wrong with that. We do not have one person who can represent us to the world, that I am aware of. If there is no representation how can vichaar take place.

    quote- People who love Guru sahib, whether he is a hindu or musalman, it is his/her love which makes them eligible to recite Anand Karaj. Many mughals fought from Guru Gobind singh ji's side, how many of them were converted to sikhism by the Guru. They had love for the Guru and that was enough.... You think you are bigger than the Guru ?

    You are right, love for Guru ji enough. Why wouldn't people who adopt the Singh and Kaur last names have love for the Guru. What was the need to form Khalsa ? --maybe Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted to organize the quam.

    TGill ji, if I am wrong please do not hesitate to correct me, it is wrong for you to call fellow sikhs unintelligent.

    Quote -- These Jathedars have lowliest of intelligence I have ever seen and they are trying to make sikh quam.

    It is a wide accepted fact that to destroy something , kill it slowly from the inside first. Pointing out the wrongs or weakness's of others will not get us anywhere. Recent history of the panth will prove that.


    quote--The umbrella that is broken is not Guru's it is urs.

    quote-- So please tell me how many real sikhs can these culprits make... I can only laugh at you so called sikhs and your leaders ... Where are the real ones, are there any.... I know there are few left.... And they will come and pouce on you foxes, the day will come, just wait !!


    Brother why wait, why not now, why don't we pounce on the foxes (problems) today. The Islamics, Jews, Christan's are still waiting for their day of heaven on Earth. Gurmuks can not afford to wait.


    Bul Chuk Maffi. :hmm:
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    tgill
    DEar t gill your posts look very good on forum.but unfortunately real world is not like this.You said that sikh leaders have no brain tell me leaders of which religion have brain.Mulsim leaders want's to convert entire world into islam.hindu leaders from 60 years are fighting and rioting because they want a mosque where their supposed mythological was born.Do you call these sensible things? in india muslims are provided with shariat law,hajj subsidy why because their numerical strength is much stronger.Any muslim can marry upto 4 wives and even leave his just by sayin 3 times talaq.do you call it sensible.

    tommorow if followers of dera will out number sikh by 9:1 then you will find the defination of sikh will become follower of dera not the follower of guru nanak to guru granth sahib.

    My friend apart from giving guruship to guru granth sahib guru gobind singh also passed corporate guruship to guru panth.Panth has right to take timely decision what is in favour of sikhs.

    Btw tgill i am not in favour of hukamnama i beleive that it will further push sikhs and many guru following hindu's to dera's and pandits.
     
  18. TGill

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    dude I think I made my point pretty clear that weaks seek numerical representation not Guru's sikhs, you can't change the definition and history of sikhs, can you or you just want to?

    Brawns we already have, and brain should be used to the utmost level possible, but how is getting numerically strong a use of sound mind. If that is the best option then each sikh couple start reproducing 10 or more kids !!!
    I think you know about israel and jews. These guys are sitting right in the midst of hardcore islamic countries but could these countries uproot israelis. These guys are greatest businessmen, they have greatest technologies.
    Why don't jathedars take any action to educate farmers with horticulture and setting up small scale businesses. 50% of youth in rural punjab is unemployed and crops are taking bad turns... Why don't SGPC lend out money to small scale farmer synicates for food processing and other businesses... Is that not possible... !!

    I am exactly saying the same thing,please use your brains and
    don't pass stupid hukamnamas. Why do you need more numbers I don't understand cos quality always surpasses quantity..... This is the time when we need to understand what is the need of the time. Is it to go islamic ways and lose what we have, or help and love each other and build a greatest quam which is most elite and most saintly... and most successful... Isn't that what Guruji were for...?

    You ask me why am I getting upset, come to the villages of Punjab. Most of the youth are drug addicts, rest of them are outside Punjab ( I'm one of them) ... The ground reality is it is not the same Punjab which it was when green revolution originated in Punjab.

    Deep Singh ji, yes you are right this is time to leave away all the stupidities of the jathedars and pounce on all the problems and it's going to start from home and not from stupid hukamnamas like this which even Guru would have not approved.:(.. !!!
     
  19. dalsingh

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    Your post seems to indicate that finances are at the centre of Sikh problems with a weakening of the agricultural system being at the heart. There is more to Sikhs than just farming.
     
  20. TGill

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    There is more to sikhs than farming, who disagrees, totally agree with this statement... But you always need a launchpad to start (I talked about businesses by the way if you read clearly) which these stupid hukamnamaas can't provide...

    Try to kill the problem don't try to enhance existing problems... People need some deep thinking here, this is really not a small issue !!
     
  21. dalsingh

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    Firstly the edict was aimed at the west, why is it bothering you so much in India?
     

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