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Above All are HIM and His praise

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by pk70, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. pk70

    pk70
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    Above all are Him and His praise

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji we have pretty much good understanding, I hope I can discuss with you that the meaning of “ achaar” in the following Guru Shabad doesn’t sound right as some do as truthful living.
    Let’s look at it in the context of Guru Message instead of believing what others say.
    Here is the Guru vaak, I am talking about
    ਮਨਹਠ ਬੁਧੀ ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਜੀਅ ਕੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰ ਸਚਹੁ ਓਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਉਪਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ (SGGS62)
    Manhaṯẖ buḏẖī keṯī▫ā keṯe beḏ bīcẖār. Keṯe banḏẖan jī▫a ke gurmukẖ mokẖ ḏu▫ār. Sacẖahu orai sabẖ ko upar sacẖ ācẖār. ||5||
    How many men of perseverance and intelligence there are and how many there are contemplators of Vedas? How many entanglements there are for the soul it is only through the Guru that the gate of emancipation is obtained. (As) everything is underneath Truth, the living with the Truth(being with Him as Sant do by praising Him-Simran) is superior to all.
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨਪਿਆਂ, ਗੁਰੂ ਵਲ ਮੂੰਹ ਕੀਤਿਆਂਮੋਖ = (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਆਦਿਕ ਤੋਂ) ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀਦੁਆਰੁ = ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ਾਸਚਹੁ = ਸੱਚ ਤੋਂ, ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਤੋਂਓਰੈ =ਉਰੇ ਉਰੇ, ਘਟੀਆਉਪਰਿ = (ਸਦ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਂਡ ਤੋਂ) ਉਤਾਂਹ ਵਧੀਆਸਚੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ =ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਨ-ਰੂਪ ਕਰਮਆਚਾਰੁ = ਕਰਮ

    ਅਨੇਕਾਂਹੀ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਅਕਲ (ਤਪ ਆਦਿਕ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਵਲ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਦੀ ਹੈ ਜੋ) ਮਨ ਦੇ ਹਠ ਨਾਲ (ਕੀਤੇਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ), ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਹੀ ਲੋਕ ਵੇਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਧਰਮ-ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ-ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ (ਤੇਇਸ ਵਾਦ-ਵਿਵਾਦ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਸਹੀ ਰਾਹ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ), ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕਾਂਕਰਮ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਜਿੰਦ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਫਾਹੀ-ਰੂਪ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, (ਪਰ ਹਉਮੈ ਆਦਿਕ ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ)ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ਦਾ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਹੀ ਲੱਭਦਾ ਹੈ (ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਹਿਦਾਇਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ)
    In the beginning look what Guru ji is talking about? He starts with the deeds of those who stressed on preserevance and the actions of contemplating on Vedas. He says further that all these are just entanglements of the soul, liberation is obtained by those who listen and act according to Guru Advice (Being Gurmukh). Now bear that in your mind, and then think what he means. He states that the eternal Almighty and His praise (achaar) are above all. I don’t see that he is saying truthful living is above the Creator.
    Dr Sahib Singh, S. Manmohan Singh also say the same thing. Now let’s see how Guru ji uses this word “achaar” in context of HIM and His praise. Here are these examples.
    ਪੰਨਾ 1137, ਸਤਰ 13ਸਿਮਰਤ ਨਾਮ ਪੂਰਨਆਚਾਰ
    Simra nām pūran ācār. ||3||
    Meditating in remembrance on the Naam brings perfect conduct. ||3||
    ਮਃ 5
    ਪੰਨਾ 1222, ਸਤਰ 9ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਇਹੁ ਸਾਧ ਕੋਆਚਾਰ
    Sarvaī kīran simran su▫āmī ih sāḏẖ ko ācār.
    This is the way of life of the Holy Saint: he listens to the Kirtan, the Praises of his Lord and Master, and meditates in remembrance on Him.
    ਮਃ 5
    ਪੰਨਾ 1255, ਸਤਰ 19ਭੀਤਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸੋਈ ਜਨੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤਨੁਆਚਾਰਰਹਾਉ
    Bīar amri so▫ī jan pāvai jis gur kā saba raan ācār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    That humble being, whose conduct is in harmony with the jewel of the Guru's Shabad, obtains the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||Pause||
    ਮਃ 1
    ਪੰਨਾ 54, ਸਤਰ 15
    ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਾਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈਆਚਾਰਰਹਾਉ
    Ji▫o bāvai i▫o rākūʼn har nām milai ācār. ||1|| rahā▫o.

    If it is Your Will, please save and protect me; please bless me with the lifestyle of the Lord's Name. ||1||Pause||
    ਮਃ 1

    Kindly share views on it; I have difficulty to believe that in this Guru Vakas, he is talking about “truthful living” though he talks about good deeds in other Guru Vakas but not in here, here it is all about Him and His Naam Simran in comparison of other all deeds as stated in above stated examples.
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    PK 70 Ji, Gurfateh.

    All my life I have taught...that "TRUTH" ( with Capital T and thus Proper Noun) is The CREATOR.
    The Creator (TRUTH) is HIGH...But Higher still is TRUTHFUL LIVING.
    Now this seems like a contradiction...How could something be higher than the CREATOR Himself.

    1. Reason being that we are the Creator's creations....thus we cannot be "higher" than Him...under any circumstances.... BUT..we can EMULATE HIM....and trying to Live our daily lives EMULATING HIM..is indeed "higher" ( FOR US..not HIM )

    Kiv SACHIARA HOEEYEH..Kiv tooreh tutteh paal ??
    SACH..is TRUTH..SAT..CREATOR..Akal Purakh....
    How can we be LIKE the TRUTH..SACH... "sachiaras"....and braek the wall of separation...
    BY LIVING our daily Lives...by emulating Him and His attributes...

    Long ago I had a conversation with a Nanaksariah Sant baba....and he was the first to comment on the often transalted tuk... High is TRUTH..but higher still si TRUTHFUL LIVING.
    He disagreed witht he words "truthful Living"..and wanted the tuk to be translated as..
    NAAMFUL LIVING"

    He said that ...... even a man with the best character is nothing when compared against the 'Man of Naam'. There is a doubt on the meaning of the words 'sach aachar'. This subject needs elucidation amongst the Sikh intellectuals who often quote the Gurbani verse---
    'Sachaho orai sabko, oopar sach aachar': I do not agree with the way it is usually translated as follows":
    'Truth is higher than every thing else, higher still is truthful conduct'.
    The critical words in this quotation are sach aachar. If these words are translated 'Naamful conduct', or 'conduct based on Naam', instead of 'Truthful conduct', then it will be more in the line with the logic of the Gurbani, which says:
    'Bin sabade aachar na kin hi paaia ' [SGGS:62]
    Without Naam, none has found the (true) conduct.
    'Naam bina kaese aachar' [SGGS: 1285]
    'Without Naam, what conduct?' [SGGS:1330]
    'Simrat Naam puran aachar' [SGGS:1137]
    Meditation on Naam makes one's conduct perfect. It is, therefore, clear that Gurbani recognizes good conduct only when it is rooted Naam; a conduct devoid of Naam whatever its other merits, is of little avail in the spiritual domain.
    This is the view espoused by Nand Singh of Nanaksar. He is considered “Man of Naam” (Sant/Baba ji)by the Nanaksari followers. Obviously many other “Sants/Babas” would also like to be considered Man of Naam- in fact ALL of them !!
    The core of the teaching of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Nam Japna (remembrance of the Name of God), Kirt Karni (the honest labour) and Wand Chhakna (sharing of the earnings). It says: Ghaal khaae kichh hatho-n deye, Nanak raah pachane seye i.e. “Only he who earns his living by the sweat of his brow and shares his earnings with others has discovered the path of righteousness, O Nanak.” Thus Sri Guru Granth Sahib lays a great emphasis on human endeavour, honest and sincere labour. It lays a great stress on good conduct in worldly affairs also as it reminds us: Sache oorey sabh ko upar sach aachar i.e. Truth is higher than everything, but higher still is truthful living. This is the more common interpretation.
    Gurbani is FOR LIVING...APPLICATION.
    What is meant by ..Kiv SACHIARAA HOYEAH kiv kurreh tutteh paal ? HUKM Razaai challanna Nanak Likhiyah NAAL.
    All along I have taught that HUKM RAZAII is LIVING LIFE in His HUKM...taking all and everything Life throws at us..Dukh meh tujjeh araadhii..Sukh meh tujjeh dhiyaee..in times of sorrow..in times of gladness...in times of sickness..in times of ill health....we ADAPT our Life according to GURBANI.
    There are Sakhis that illustrate this....a Gurmukh who was having his son’s wedding in his house was seen getting ready a “kaffan”.( cloth used to wrap a dead body)..what is that ? OH I have come to know that my beloved son will die the day after his wedding ? So aren’t you sad..or aren’t you going to do anything to stop that...Stop What ?? the wedding..or his death ?? Both are in His HUKM...First I will celebrate his wedding..then I will celebrate his death.
    This is called APPLYING GURBANI in our daily Life. I believe this is what we are meant to do. But is this just a matter of semantics..play on words...Naam Conduct..vs..Truthful Conduct....Naam living..Truthful Living....To me it is. TRUTH..SACH..IS NAAM..and thus Naam Living is Truthful Living...It would be impossible to Live according to the Tenets of TRUTH/SAACH (Waheguru) if one were liivng in deceit/lies/cheating/criminal/jealous/
    Practising Truth: A congenial atmosphere can be created only if we all begin to practise the concepts of our religion because essentially all the religions preach love and peace. It is only the bigots who themselves have not understood their religion and it is only the exploiters who do not wish to lead righteous lives preach hatred and since we are all ignorant about the real values, we are mislead. In reality religious harmony and universal peace are the two sides of the same coin but cause of hiatus in what we say and what we do, we cannot live happily together. Guru Nanak had emphatically preached sachon ure sabkau uppar sach achar (everything is below truth but higher than truth is truthful conduct).


    If we all live the truth of our religions, we can manifestly prove that religious harmony and universal peace would become a reality.


    Let us not forget that there is another dimension to the problem of universal peace, that of poverty. If we really want to solve the problems of poverty, we should be doing our religious duty of looking after the down-trodden people, but what we witness is not only our aversion towards the poor but our deliberate disinterest in raising their standard of living. We go on creating more poverty by usurping their rights and exploiting their ignorance and innocence. Religion becomes then only a tool for exploitation because its basic morality is missing.
    GURU NANAK JI broke that by going to saty with Bahi lalo and REFUSING to be cowed down by the Financial might of Malik Bhago..that is "TRUTHFUL CONDUCT" we can Emulate even TODAY as SIKHS.



    Poverty - An Obstacle to Peace: We love prophets, we love religion but only externally. Now even religion has become a five-star culture. We now concentrate on external cosmetism, external celebrations, external extravagant ostentation. We believe that bigger the car in which a holy man travels, the bigger the house in which he lives, the more spiritual he is, depriving the poor people of the faith of the pious and the pure. We cannot deny that even safe drinking water is not available to a lot of people. We cannot deny that all our people do not have two square meals a day. What kind of religion do we preach and practise which does not ensure even drinking water and two square meals to our people? What peace do we talk about? And what religious harmony? If we had practised reality of religion, there would not have been starvation deaths on the one hand and heaps of foodgrains being eaten by worms. Again, we would not have been involved in five-star ostentation in the face of humiliating poverty of our people. Indeed, the rulers too deny the poor their due and exploit them in the name of religion and seva, whereas in reality they themselves live a life far removed from that of the people. The seminars and conferences also become meaningless with repetition of empty slogans of peace.
    Where is the connection between religious harmony and abject poverty? There can be no peace when the stomach is empty, women are humiliated and bonded labour is exploited. Practise of religion implies morality and integrity of the highest order. Even Sikhs are guilty of these...lapses in TRUTHFUL CONDUCT...



    This is all because we DONT practise what GURBANI TEACHES US. What to me ACHAAR means is trying to become like the creator in his attributes...He is benevolent beyond measure..lets be benevolent as much as we can..He is Forgiver par excellence..lets forgive our enemies just a little bit..Dosh na kahoon dehohn....He is Nirbhau..let learn to be unafraid...He is sans enmity..lets try and have less enemies...


    Thats all for now..I wish to discuss further..but time constraints hinder me alittle bit... As you would have realised i am more of a Genaralist...( General is my name !!)..while you are more of a "particluarist"..more on details..thats why i tend to wander off and digress quite alot...so please do forgive these lapses...


    Thanks for this opportunity to discuss

     
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Gyani ji

    You ask a question that has bother me too. How id truthful living higher than the Truth which is the Sat Himself. But the answer has to be found in this paragraph by you,

    Practising Truth: A congenial atmosphere can be created only if we all begin to practise the concepts of our religion because essentially all the religions preach love and peace. It is only the bigots who themselves have not understood their religion and it is only the exploiters who do not wish to lead righteous lives preach hatred and since we are all ignorant about the real values, we are mislead. In reality religious harmony and universal peace are the two sides of the same coin but cause of hiatus in what we say and what we do, we cannot live happily together. Guru Nanak had emphatically preached sachon ure sabkau uppar sach achar (everything is below truth but higher than truth is truthful conduct).

    To choose truthful living under Nanakian thinking is to choose the path of Dharma in its essential meaning, walking on the path of truth, taking up the path of rightness, aligning ourselves with the rightful turning of creation. It is truth in action. In my teaspoon full of understanding -- Nanak meant that staring at the planets or gazing into the thrid eye leads to something, but it does not lead to TRUTH. TRUTH is found in actions and in conduct -- walking the walk and talking the talk. Dharma....close cousin of truthful living.
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Pk 70 Ji,
    Gurfateh.

    Further elaboration.
    I have always taught that "Naam Simran....HIM ABOVE ALL...and all is only practical IF we LIVE it.
    Gurbani is for practical living. I wonder if you have come across this article by TSher Singh on Gurbani.org. I beleive the Singhs of Olden Days..in the Golden Days of the Khalsa LIVED Gurbani...this is the right way of "achaar" that Guru ji is addressing in the tuks you quoted. I agree that "good deeds" that the Buddhists and other religions stress such as giving alms, being kind and compassionate, daan karna, punn karna etc etc are WAY BELOW what Guru ji woudl term Naamful/truthful Living/Conduct for a Gursikh. A GURSIKH lives the NAAM..practically. Thast what i understand. pardon me if wrong.
    GURBANI IS MEANT TO BE APPLIED ONLY
     

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