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Islam A Question To My Muslim Friends Here

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by binnz001, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. binnz001

    binnz001
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    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

    i have a few questions for my Muslim freinds here , i have been talking some to muslims in other forums but instead of replies they start abusing. Hope someone here clears the doubts.

    JUST A FEW QUESTIONS

    1:ALLAH -- THE CREATOR ? I
    f Allah created the whole world & he wanted all world to be muslim , then why does he allow other religions to exist ? Why did he sent hindus , jews , christians & many more religions before finally Islam ? Do u mean that first god made hindus , then he thought that its not right , then he made jews & again he accepted his mistake & then he told people to take up christaianity & then finally he sent mohhamad to tell whole world that he was wrong at all eralier ocasions & finally now evryone should be muslim ???????????

    2: ALLAH - THE MECIFUL ?
    Excerpts from Quraan
    22:20 Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be
    melted;
    22:21 And for them are hooked rods of iron. 22:22 Whenever, in
    their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and
    (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning

    SO MY QUESTION WILL BE WHAT KIND OF TEACHINGS IN THIS SHOWING THAT HARDLINER ATTITUTE OF ALLAH ????
    THE CONTRARY U SAY , ALLAH THE MECIFUL & ALWAYS FORGIVING ..

    HOW CAN ALLAH BE SO MERCILESS & MERCIFUL AT SAME TIME?

    3: WOMEN IN ISLAM ?
    islamic treatment of women and view about sex etc: A
    woman's testimony (Shahadah) has half the weight of a man's (2: 282, 4:177).
    When inheritance is to be shared "A male is equal to the portion of two females(SM 3933 4:177)
    A man can divorce his wife by simply saying "Talaaq, talaaq, talaaq" three times

    Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excel the other and because they spend their property (for the support of women(4: 34).

    Your women are like a tilth for you (to cultivate), go unto your tilth as ye will"(HQ 2:223 SM 3363)

    STILL MOST MUSLIMS CLAIM THAT WOMEN HAVE THE BEST FREEDOM ORDERED BY MOHHAMAD..


    4: PROPHET SELLING SEX?
    Didn't muhammad believe in sodomy and promise you young boys along wiv virgins in his self created jannat? was muhammad the prophet of the true lord? if yes why did he justify paedophilia, sodomy hate, taking women as booty in war . He says alcohol is banned for you here coz it's intoxicating
    but promises 'rivers of wine' coz it won't be intoxicating
    ....i wished

    VERSES FRM THE QURAAN

    78:31
    As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.

    Koran 37:40-48
    They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

    Koran 44:51-55
    ...Yes and We shall wed them to
    dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)

    52:17-20
    ...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them.

    Koran 55:56-57
    In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched
    before.Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?

    Koran 55:57-58 Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?

    Koran 56:7-40 We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand

    Koran 55:70-77 In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair. Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jin will have touched before.



    I CALL THAT SELLING SEX WITH RELIGION. HOPE MANY WOULD AGREE. mohhamad knew that sex would sell among young arabs & he took all possoble ways to spread islam.


    I have many other questions but i might offend muslims , so its better first i get a true & decent reply to these things.

    My point is not to proove anything wrong with islam as a religion, but all i want to ask is , if thats how u have been told to live , how can we co-exist ? quraan was written thousand years back, maybe those things were right that time , but the world has changed since then & we need to find a better way of co-existance, Sikhi teaches us all the equality towards all forms of life & shows us path of salvation

    WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA , WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH.......








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  3. badmash

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    Re: A Question To My Muslim Freinds Here

    Why do you even bother to ask?
     
  4. binnz001

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    Just becoz thr was a thread " Quraan to Sikhs Students" where they were trying to explain the greatness , & proove us wrong ... so i just wana ask them all this , im really awaiting answers.....
     
  5. badmash

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    Come on man, I see your point, but do you really expect some mullah to come and reply "Yes, I see your point. Mine is an irrational philosophy which has been used to justify the destruction and pillaging of civilizations, and whose divine prose is full of unequal and discriminatory statues."?!!!!
    It would be the exceptional muslim who says, yep, there are some issues here which would beg questions of the unbelievers and are hypocritical. But you never know......maybe...
     
  6. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    visit "google videos" and watch Islam:Empire of Faith
    It is an eye opener on how this faith is formed
     
  7. CaramelChocolate

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    FROM A NON-MUSLIM STUDYING ISLAAM.

    If Allah created the whole world & he wanted all world to be muslim , then why does he allow other religions to exist ? Why did he sent hindus , jews , christians & many more religions before finally Islam ? Do u mean that first god made hindus , then he thought that its not right , then he made jews & again he accepted his mistake & then he told people to take up christaianity & then finally he sent mohhamad to tell whole world that he was wrong at all eralier ocasions & finally now evryone should be muslim ???????????

    As per Islam, Allaah sent messengers to every nation but man changed the word of God hence the need for new Prophets. Muhammad is the final Prophet and because he was the final he was sent for all nations and Islam is the final perfect form which is safeguarded from this. See Qur'aan 5:3.

    SO MY QUESTION WILL BE WHAT KIND OF TEACHINGS IN THIS SHOWING THAT HARDLINER ATTITUTE OF ALLAH ????
    THE CONTRARY U SAY , ALLAH THE MECIFUL & ALWAYS FORGIVING ..

    HOW CAN ALLAH BE SO MERCILESS & MERCIFUL AT SAME TIME?

    + When someones converts to Islaam they are like a newborn baby, they are cleared of all sins
    + Hell is not permanent for everyone
    + Allaah may CHOSE to forgive any sin EXCEPT the sin of shirk [idolatry, associating partners with him] See Qur'aan 4:48
    (You might want to confirm this following point as it may be a view held by the Sh'ii only.)
    + Those who do not believe in Islam can be put into 2 groups 1. Jahil-e-Muqassir (culpable ignorant) non-believers whom have heard the message of Islam and UNDERSTOOD its truthfulness yet will not accept or follow it, these people will be punished in hell. 2. Jahil-e-Qasir (incuplable ignorant), non believers who have not heard the message of Islam or it has not been presented to them in a complete/truthful manner, these people will go to jannah if they are truthful to their own religion.


    woman's testimony (Shahadah) has half the weight of a man's (2: 282, 4:177).
    The quote you gave was about transactions, not shahada.

    When inheritance is to be shared "A male is equal to the portion of two females(SM 3933 4:177)
    In patriachal society a man usually looks after a women and provides for her therefore she would not need as much money as him.

    Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excel the other and because they spend their property (for the support of women(4: 34).
    The meaning I have here is not "in charge", but "maintainers" and "protectors" which is usually the case in a patriarchal society.

    Didn't muhammad believe in sodomy and promise you young boys along wiv virgins in his self created jannat?
    Sodomy is haraam. Ask any scholar.

    was muhammad the prophet of the true lord? if yes why did he justify paedophilia,
    Please read things in a contextual light. What is paedophilia today was not in the past. Islaam prescribes the permissibility of marriage not by age but by the begging of puberty. If Aisha had not entered puberty he would have not consumated the marriage with her. Why do you think he consumated it 3 years after the nikah? The age of consent in Nigeria, Spain, South Korea and Burkhina Faso are both 13 for heterosexuals. So by this standard, a 65 year old man can have sex with a 13 year old girl legally.

    taking women as booty in war .
    Traditionally men fight in war. If the Muslim side wins the war, there will be thousands of widowed women with no husbands, therefore it Islam allows the men to marry these women.

    He says alcohol is banned for you here coz it's intoxicating
    but promises 'rivers of wine' coz it won't be intoxicating....i wished
    Alcohol is haraam because it intoxicates. But in heaven it will not intoxicate. Remember that God is all-powerful and could suddenly make the wine on this earth non-intoxicating IF HE WANTED TO.

    VERSES FRM THE QURAAN

    78:31 As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.

    Koran 37:40-48
    They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

    Koran 44:51-55 ...Yes and We shall wed them to
    dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)
    52:17-20 ...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them.
    Koran 55:56-57
    In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched
    before.Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?
    Koran 55:57-58 Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?
    Koran 56:7-40 We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand
    Koran 55:70-77 In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair. Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jin will have touched before.
    Virginity is often seen as a symbol of purity. Islaam gives a lot of detail about heaven and hell. The purity of even the servants is described here to show the beauty of heaven. The use of the word "CHASTE" implies they will not be wanting to have sex.
    Furthermore with regards to a wife the translation is PARTNER whereas the people in heaven are referred to as COMPANIONS which often means friend or acquaintance.


    My point is not to proove anything wrong with islam as a religion, but all i want to ask is , if thats how u have been told to live , how can we co-exist ? quraan was written thousand years back, maybe those things were right that time , but the world has changed since then & we need to find a better way of co-existance, Sikhi teaches us all the equality towards all forms of life & shows us path of salvation
    When reading the Qur'aan you need to understand the topic, so read a few ayats [verses] before the one you are being told to read.
    I can say "SIKHISM IS RACIST AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE"
    Page 30, Line 3
    ਸਤਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜੋ ਮੁਹ ਫੇਰਹਿ ਮਥੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਲੇ ॥
    सतगुर ते जो मुह फेरहि मथे तिन काले ॥
    satgur tay jo muh fayreh mathay tin kaalay.
    Those who turn their faces away from the True Guru shall have their faces blackened.
    But I have too much logic in my head to isolate one quote without understanding the theme of the verse or the context within which the verse is used.
    Also many Sikhs confuse their eglitarian equality with Islaam's notion of equality which is that all are equal BUT HAVE DIFFERENT RULES. Sikhs preach these ideals of eglitarianism but they don't come out in practice. Enter a Gurdwara and most men are Granthis and most women are cooking langar, women are dressed up as if they are to be beautified and men wear basic, plain western clothes. Men wear a turban but women do not as women are socially seen as objects to be beautiful where society cares less about a man beautifying himself. I could go on and on.
    Muslims will argue the Qur'aan applies to all time. And yes you are trying to prove Islaam wrong as you have your own agenda. What about Judaism and all the other faiths? Read the old testament and you will see all the instructions on how animal sacrifice should be performed, how the punishment is death for the mixing of two threads i.e. silk and cotton in one garment etc. etc.
    Face it, you are going along with the trend of picking on Muslims.
     
  8. DazzyG

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    Islam is a barbaric faith, its almost a dark spot on the name of religion!!
     
  9. binnz001

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    Dear "CARAMEL" , im worried about you. probably your also on ur way to
    b brainwashed & converted into Islam. We cant ignore the fact that muslims r brainwashing west these days. I have a seen a channel 4 undercover dispatches documentry & herez the link ..
    DesiTorrents
    dercover

    if ur not a memebr here i can send u the inviatation so that u can join
    this blog & download this file.
    See this & i wud appriciate ur comments
    Im sure u wud say, these r some people , but brother if these kind of
    things r taught in a mosque where do u think this religion is going????

    But im sure ur comments r going to be that not all muslims r like that
    or again that stuff like that... I have one more question

    I AGREE THAT NOT ALL MUSLIMS R TERRORISTS , BUT CAN U EXPLAIN ME WHY ALL TERRORISTS R MUSLIMS ??




    NOW lets talk about ur reply....
    1: So somehow u seem to agree that allah was wrong in all previous occasions that he made & allowed other religions to breed .... u urself say that by writing "
    As per Islam, Allaah sent messengers to every nation but man changed
    the word of God hence the need for new Prophets. Muhammad is the final
    Prophet and because he was the final he was sent for all nations and Islam is the final perfect form which is safeguarded from this. See Qur'aan 5:3."

    so this means that u accept allah is not the perfect he cudnt make a
    perfect world right away ....
    continuing on this topic , i wud wana ask u , is thr any other religion
    that confirms mohhamad was the last prophet & thr shall b no one else
    after him ? i mean , grow up man , its thr holy book , that has to write it , mohhamad doesnt even know whats written in quraan , he died many years ago before present day quraan came into existance..

    2: can you show me exact surrah where this claim by you is written ??
    "these people will go to jannah if they are truthful to their own religion." ??

    3: I asked was mohhamad selling sex ?
    u dint answer , i know what purity is , but getting others into ur own ideas by telling them if u follow what i say , u will get 52 virgins & rivers of wine in paradise ???? Muslims r not allowed to drink on earth but mayb when they die for islam they will get rivers of wine , this means allah is a wine addict ?

    & 52 virgins if u follow what i say , isnt that selling sex ?

    So, i guess the bottom line is mayb u also agree that these might b
    "NOT SO GOOD" teaching of an old & orthodox islam but i think u r too
    rigid to accept that some other faith was wrong in some of its saying , please be sure that i really dont blame mohhamad for all that , coz even he doesnt know whats written in quraan , mayb he wanted to teach
    something else & that got to the book in some other sense. I am proud
    that Guru Granth Sahib provides us with a first hand Bani of our Gurus.
    No other holy book of any other religion is written & complied by the gurus/prophets/gods behind it.


    So,any muslim is really ready to answer my questions in detail ? I need to understand some of the above points better..


    WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA , WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH......
     
  10. binnz001

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    THIS IS THE LINK TO THAT "REAL FACE OF ISLAM"

    DesiTorrents


    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji ki Fateh
     
  11. jag1t

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    Dear Saadh Sangat ji,

    Aval Allah noor upaya KUDRAT DE SAB BANDE...

    Having said that. Dear Caramel yours is an interesting response and a valiant attempt to justify, according to Islam. However the futility (and indeed harm) of all such kind of debates does not seem to strike everyone.

    jag1t

     
  12. jag1t

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    Dear Binnz001 ji,

    Thank you for some good information. Yes the Quran, unlike SGGS, was written much after the passing of the Prophet and therefore may not be quite what the Prophet preached. Are Allah and Waheguru not the same?

    jag1t
     
  13. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear binz caramel cannot be a muslim because he is homosexual and according to islam do not tolerate homosexuality.
     
  14. CaramelChocolate

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    Dear "CARAMEL" , im worried about you. probably your also on ur way to
    b brainwashed & converted into Islam. We cant ignore the fact that muslims r brainwashing west these days. I have a seen a channel 4 undercover dispatches documentry & herez the link ..
    DesiTorrents
    dercover

    if ur not a memebr here i can send u the inviatation so that u can join
    this blog & download this file.
    See this & i wud appriciate ur comments
    Im sure u wud say, these r some people , but brother if these kind of
    things r taught in a mosque where do u think this religion is going????
    But im sure ur comments r going to be that not all muslims r like that
    or again that stuff like that... I have one more question

    I AGREE THAT NOT ALL MUSLIMS R TERRORISTS , BUT CAN U EXPLAIN ME WHY ALL TERRORISTS R MUSLIMS ??

    The definition 'terrorist' means one who causes terror. If I scream BOMB on an aeroplane then I am a terrorist even if there is no bomb. If you are talking about bombers and suicide bombers then I would advise you to do a search on Timothy McVeigh, Hitler and also read some newspapers [assuming you live in the UK] from the previous 2 weeks about the 'disgruntled motorist' sending bombs to all sorts of offices.
    Also George Bush can be regarded as a terrorist, since forces have arrive in Iraq 655,000 civilians have been killed. Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000 - washingtonpost.com
    Ask yourself: If innocent Sikhs were being butchered on a daily basis then would you put up with it? The western world, including myself is hid from the realities that USA and UK are undertaking all over the world.
    I am in no way justifying terrorism and am no way a sympathiser, but I fully understand the POLITCAL reasons for these actions [understand does not mean agreement] and killing innocents is in no way Islamically justified.
    I watched this documentary and was not convinced. The producers manipulated the data very carefully. They gave one fraction of a talk which seems shocking outside of context.
    AS AN EXAMPLE:
    Amy: Yeah so I was talking to Fred, and he said she is a dirty *****.
    (Cindy's friend Mary passes after this)
    Salema: Cindy is a dirty *****?
    (Mary has finished passing)
    Salema: *shocked face* That's so mean, I hate Fred.

    Mary tells Cindy that Salema think's she's a dirty *****.

    NOW lets talk about ur reply....
    1: So somehow u seem to agree that allah was wrong in all previous occasions that he made & allowed other religions to breed .... u urself say that by writing "
    As per Islam, Allaah sent messengers to every nation but man changed
    the word of God hence the need for new Prophets. Muhammad is the final
    Prophet and because he was the final he was sent for all nations and Islam is the final perfect form which is safeguarded from this. See Qur'aan 5:3."

    so this means that u accept allah is not the perfect he cudnt make a
    perfect world right away ....
    continuing on this topic , i wud wana ask u , is thr any other religion
    that confirms mohhamad was the last prophet & thr shall b no one else
    after him ? i mean , grow up man , its thr holy book , that has to write it , mohhamad doesnt even know whats written in quraan , he died many years ago before present day quraan came into existance..

    The quraan says 'today i have perfected your religion for you'. The quraan was preserved by oral tradition then recorded later. This is the same with Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Judaism AND Christianity [in fact in Christianity, there is a document X which is written by an unknown person and also the same story repeated elswhere such as the feeding of the 5,000 with a few minor differences].

    2: can you show me exact surrah where this claim by you is written ??
    "these people will go to jannah if they are truthful to their own religion." ??
    I told you to clarify this as it may be a Sh'ii belief. The Qur'aan is NOT the only source of law in Islam. There's also a thing called 'sunnah' or tradition which comes from the sayings of Prophet Muhammad which are recorded in the Hadiths.

    3: I asked was mohhamad selling sex ?
    u dint answer , i know what purity is , but getting others into ur own ideas by telling them if u follow what i say , u will get 52 virgins & rivers of wine in paradise ???? Muslims r not allowed to drink on earth but mayb when they die for islam they will get rivers of wine , this means allah is a wine addict ?
    I guess Waheguru is a karah parshad addict since Sikhi offers it at Gurdwara? Stop your silly claims [that Allaah is a wine addict] and then I can perhaps respond to your answers rationally. The theme of the three abrahamic faiths is obedience to God which is why Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of eden for eating the forbidden fruit. Hence according to Islaam life is a test, and what is forbidden in this life is a part of that test. But since there is no test in heaven and there is no bad in heaven.
    Please read
    Islam Question and Answer - Why are some things forbidden in this world when they are permitted in Paradise?
    Or type question no. 4994.

    KDS1980-Please discuss the issues of homosexuality in the homosexuality thread. My own sexual orientation does not make any difference to this discussion.
     
  15. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear cc

    i am not discussing homosexuality.you are one of the oldest member of this who used to post quite regularly but now you are not as much active.so i am just informing active members of this site so that there should be no misunderstanding.
     
  16. dalsingh

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    Caramel

    Don't listen to Islamic propaganda. Being in East London means that you are surrounded by them and they may be subtly brainwashing you.

    Don't defend them, study your own thing and cleanse your mind.

    I seen plenty of guys that go well out of their way to brainwash young Sikh girls given any opportunity. Be careful, your young and they target people like you.

    No disrespect.
     
  17. binnz001

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    Dear Caramel ,
    i beleive u still havent answered my questions...
    ur on ur way to b brainwahsed fully , coz u seem to protecting islam & abusing ur religion.

    If u think waheguru is a prashad addict , he doesnt stop us from eating it here in this world also, he doesnt offer us women in paradise

    If u saw that video & u say that has been modified , READ CAREFULLY in my first reply , i said that u wud say this .... so i can confirm ur on ur path to b brainwashed.
    U think that has been modified, u can hear "WE MUSLIMS R TOLD BY ALLAH TO BRAINWASH OTHERS INTO ISLAM" , "ALLAH MADE WOMEN DEFICIENT"... tell me how can these be modified so that they make good sense.....
    Thats all taught in a Mosque bro, u need to open ur eyes .. if u say not all muslims r like that , then why dont the "non-terrorists" like urself , stop the terrorist muslims? Why does only muslims have problems with the world ??
    Indonesia , Africa , kashmir , Palestine , now US & UK , Russia .... ??? WHY , why does only muslim community has problems ? Ask urself or mayb that man from the mosque that is brainwashing you. If he tells u that if u die for islam u will get "jannat & virgins & all that ****" , why doesnt he himself die & get all that ???

    Dont forget what our gurus sacrificed for this sikhi & what supreme scarifices gurusikhs made to protect our faith & religion. & u r supporting the same religion & race whome our gurus said we shudnt trust ...

    When i ask u about muslim terrorist , u point fingers at others. C'mon man , i thought u were a grown up man. I was asking abt problems within " ur commnity" & u start to show me wrong doing of others. But i can understand ur situation , ur not in ur senses coz mayb islamic brainwashing has taken over ur brain.



    I have given u exact phrases with page numbers frm quraan but u havent provided me with any phrase that says that a muslims shud respect all faiths & people & that thing that u said .. "these people will go to jannah if they are truthful to their own religion."


    Brother , ur being brainwashed , plz wake up before its too late. dont make ur parents feel shame becoz of you.
    Try to come with some ANSWERS next time.
    Gur Fateh

    WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA , WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
     
  18. DazzyG

    DazzyG
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    Muslims are to be pitied...they are headless chickens under the grasp of Islam, a faith that has no interest in peace as so many of the followers claim...more like this backward and barbaric faith was made up by a very clever or not so clever man depending on how you look at it, his name MUHAMMED!!
     
  19. badmash

    badmash
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    Whether or not something is to be pitied, it is much more effective in spreading its philosophy and narrow mindedness than open minded and inclusive faiths are.
     
  20. badmash

    badmash
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    Just FYI....read it and think about it...does not surprise anyone does it?

    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq's Mandaeans 'face extinction'

    Now this is a cause and people that secularists and freedom loving countries should rally around. I guess they are too insignificant a minority for the world to care about. Sound familiar?
     
  21. kaur-1

    kaur-1
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    Informative long video Documentary-Well made:

    Online Video: Islam - What The West Needs To Know | Veoh Video Network

    "
    Islam - What The West Needs To Know

    Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret i... more » Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination. Relying primarily on Islam’s own sources, this documentary demonstrates that Islam is a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government.

    http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/index.asp"
    Islam: What the West Needs To Know - About the Project
     

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