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Controversial A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by helgasdogs, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. helgasdogs

    helgasdogs
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    Dear Sikh Philosophy Net Members,

    I am a Catholic Fremen, who visited your gracious forums four years ago to introduce myself. I have been busy in the interim, but, now return. I do not call myself a Christian, because Jesus Christ did not call himself a Christian. Instead, my religion is Fremenism, which is the religion of Freedom, and, which, in order to become more free, has led me to embrace Catholicism as the highest repository of Truth on your planet Terra (which we Fremen, because we are native to the desert, call sliwka, or "swamp").

    I am controversy incarnate, I am the least politically correct person on the planet, and I serve the One whose only Son is Jesus Christ. I seek to love the One with all my mind, with all my heart, with all my strength, and with all my soul, and, I seek to love my neighbour as myself--and myself as I ought, being made in the image of the One.

    I come here because I lack interaction with Fighters, and you Sikhs have a noble tradition of Fighting in the path of righteousness, to the best of my current knowlege. I would that I could learn from you, and you from me, for my part.

    Thank you for the opportunity to intercourse with you on these important things. Time is short; may your hesitation to embrace Agape be shorter.

    Yours,

    "h"
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Welcome back helgasdogs ji

    I do remember when you joined the forum initially. Where are you returning from? (Correctly stated in English, Whence do you return? LOL

    Tell us a little more about what a Catholic Fremen is. I have looked for a definition and cannot find one. Does it have anything to do with Dune Religions? That was the closest I could get to a reference quickly on the web, with most information related to specific individuals and not to the concept as a whole.

    I would say this is a fighting forum, so you should find many debates to engage you.

    Yes, life is short...so enjoy! kaurhug
     
  4. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear spnadmin,


    I'm happy you remembered me. I didn't abandon what I said then, but, I have developed my metaphysique to the degree that I feel worthy to engage you.

    I hail from the Dominion of Canada, part of the Commonwealth, under my sovereign the Queen of England. I live in the prairies of Canada, which is currently a wasteland of snow as the Season of Death is upon us. This makes me take comfort in my sietch ('secure home').



    Fremenism is to Catholicism similar to what Catholicism was to the Jewish Law. Jesus Christ transmuted the Law from one of fear, into one of love (Agape, or love of Reason, love of man for man's sake, not because he pleases you by his appearance, manner, or character). The Catholic Church wedded Agape to the Classical Greek ideal of Reason, thus creating the engine of Western Civilisation's progress toward a globally-extended scientifically managed economy based on the General Welfare principle which states that a Government exist to serve the People, not the People to serve the Government.



    Fremenism does two things, which combine into a common principle:



    (1) Recognises the common humanity of all, in no uncertain terms, according to a scientific definition of humanity, and,


    (2) Economises Fear of the One (Whom many religions choose to call 'God'),using Reason, in terms of Psalm 111:10, 'The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.'


    Fremenism is, therefore, not a Religion in the sense that it can or seeks to replace any other religion. Rather, it is the perfect principle of perfecting religion, termed the F-principle. Thus, Fremenism is a fighting discipline, which is both an outgrowth of the fruit of the great thinkers of Catholicism and Classical Humanism, and, also, a Weltangschaaung (German, 'worldview'). Fremenism is what is needed to unify and gird the righteous, that mankind may escape our childhood on Terra (what you call Earth, what in Fremen is termed 'sliwka' or swamp), and conquer the stars.


    Frank Herbert was the modern 'prophet' of Fremenism, if we wish to put it that way, but, whether he was witting or unwitting about it is neither here nor there. We do not worship Frank Herbert, who wrote his myths as self-entertainment and for the pleasure of his readers. The hypotheses contained within his works are what matters, and those hypotheses could as easily have come from the blue jays in the trees, or the outcropped water-smoothed rocks at the hopelessly sandy beaches of a cold English Autumn. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, and he was not a Christian--he was a Fremen, a free man in the Universe. It is towards that freedom, and in that freedom, I trudge and skip through the demesne of the Great Worm, Shaitan, the devourer of souls.


    If any of this is unclear, I will endeavour to elucidate for you further. I am open to any question, though I retain my right to invoke the Fifth Amendment of the United States Bill of Rights, the right to remain silent, as I choose.


    Yours,


    'h'


    PS.
    What does 'ji' mean, pray tell?
     
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  5. Admin Singh

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Its like saying Dear helgasdogs, in a more respectful way usually used in Indian Sub-continent... :)
     
  6. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear Aman,

    Thank you for clearing that us. As I no not know the nuances involved, I will continue to use the Western "Dear" for my respect for you.

    Yours,

    "h"
     
  7. davinderdhanjal

    davinderdhanjal United Kingdom
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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear helgasdogs,

    There is Fremenism and Zensunni beliefs - they seem wildly differing - may be you can elaborate.
    "I do not call myself a Christian, because Jesus Christ did not call himself a Christian" May be Christ did not call himself Christian but his experiences and teachings produced Christanity - have you also developed some new faith that you are spreading?
    If you are seeking Truth - even found some - may be you can also share that with us.
     
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  8. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear davinder,<?"urn:<img src=" />
    I have not developed a new faith, but, I have developed a new <I>approach </I>to faith, derived from my experiences and which I seek to teach to any who will suffer to listen to them.

    The essence of Zensunni - which, in Fremen, literally means 'flow submission' - is the combination of the essence of Islam ('submission') before the One ('God'), and the essence of Zen Buddhism, which is to 'flow' with one's experience. There is an ancient Oriental Terran teaching that one should cease trying to 'push the river,' the river of life will flow of its own accord, one must merely accommodate oneself to its power, adding one's own water to its magnitude. On Arrakis ('desert planet'), we have only rivers of sand and rivers of tears. One cannot easily push the river of sand! Thus, we see things more clearly there, than most Terrans do on their <I>sliwka</I>-world.

    The Truth of the matter is that we are in the midst of an onushing, accelerating physical-economic and financial collapse that has been triggered by decades of monetarist financial policies advocated by the oligarchial elite and foisted on the sovereign Governments of the Nation-States of the world, with the intention of destroying globally-extended European civilisation and bringing mankind back to a Dark Age, in which the neo-feudal Lords will have dominion over the planet forever. This cannot be allowed to happen! As a Fighter I appeal to your most noblest impulses to help me stop this from happening, and, how I help you help me is by helping you understand the truth of Zensunni sufferism.

    It is called 'sufferism' because it makes a discipline of enjoying failure, pain, and psychic suffering. A Zensunni sufferist is like a Canadian salmon, swimming vigourously upstream toward its sacred spawning place, even swimming up waterfalls to reach its imperative destination. But, when by will of the One a mischance washes it out and it free-falls in the rainbow spray back to the bottom, it is not unhappy in that condition, but, rejoices that its labours are over for the moment, and, it splashes to the base of the waterfalls again, wherein it instantly begins its muscular attack on the waterfall's flow once more.

    Zensunni sufferism: 'flow submission' + 'joy of failure'

    Does that make sense to you, or, have I misstated my understanding?

    Yours,

    'h'
     
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    #7 helgasdogs, Dec 11, 2010
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  9. spnadmin

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    helgasdogs ji

    I am not able to understand this idea. Would you go into more detail? Thank you.

     
  10. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear spnadmin,<?"urn:<img src=" />
    I would be glad to.

    What is the essence of being a Fighter, one who fights against injustices without himself becoming immoral and, therefore, unjust? Is the essence love of battle? Bravery? Cold-hearted willingness to kill? Discretion? A strategic mind? A well-developed body? A love of Country? Faithfulness to his Religion? Discipline?

    There is no need for this confusion, which warriors throughout history have dealt with in various ways. In World War Two, the Germans were the best killers, but the Russians were the craziest, and the Americans had the most heart. So, if we are to be Fighters, where should we focus our attentions on in terms of building our minds into what the One ('God') wishes us to be?

    The essence of being a Fighter is threefold:

    (1) A Fighter recognises the fundamental unity of the perceptual world, that in it there is no 'this' or 'that,' but, only one continuous 'thing' that we perceive as a whole, a one, a unity. The German psychologists call this a <I>gestalt</I>. The Fighter must recognise the gestalten flow of his environment, of which no two parts are the same, and which is never the same twice when he looks once, then looks again. There is no such thing as identity in the perceptual realm, identities are only categories that we place onto the screen of our awareness in order to make logic possible.

    (2) A Fighter recognises the Will of the One as that to which we submit wholeheartedly, unreservedly, with no apologies, and with gladness. This Blessed, Maximal One, is all-Rational, all-Agapic (Agape, 'love of Reason'), all-Knowing, all-Powerful, and Eternal. Thus, in keeping with #1, the Fighter submits to the flow of the world knowing that everything is for the best, that all blessings, whether bane or boon, are for his benefit, and that Goodness, Beauty, and Truth will triumph in the end; the only question is how much pain the world must go through as a result of his own personal failures to act in accordance with the One's wishes.

    (3) A Fighter perfectly convinced of the first two points, will lack fear of anything but the One, and, therefore, will not have the normal human inhibitions to enjoying suffering. Freed from fear, he will not necessarily seek suffering, but, when it comes, its deepest bite will be relaxed, and, he will know it is for the best, and even interesting and enjoyable in its manner. He would prefer pleasure, but, exists without like or dislike in terms of his dedication to the One, knowing that in some cases pain becomes pleasurable and pleasure becomes painful.

    Thus, Zensunni sufferism; which translates in emotional praxis into <I>Fremen joy</I>--the joy of being free, gloriously free, by virtue of the overmastering slavery of the One.

    Yours,

    'h'
     
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    #9 helgasdogs, Dec 12, 2010
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  11. davinderdhanjal

    davinderdhanjal United Kingdom
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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> Dear helgasdogs,
    The basic philosphy is to fall in with the masses and flow. And if the flow is against your belief - you accept it - and enjoy it. I hope I have not oversimplified the belief.

    Just for information I have not sucessfully mastered Sikhism to dabble and follow other philophies - it is a tall order. I have a lot of respect for our Gurus who went through a lot of rough times and cruel regimes of their time. Some of them gave their life to make sure that all the people could have the freedom to practice their own beliefs - even if they did not follow those beliefs themselves. I guess that means for your belief too.

    However one can only take so much abuse before deciding to put an end to the situation - which our tenth Guru did to Moslem cruelty and unfairness in the latter part of their rule. The basic belief of the Gurus was to seek truth - this has far reaching implications on the nature of the people who follow the teachings - as one questions oneself at every juncture and if abused by others one questions them. The direction of their approach is taken from fairness to all and neither abuse others or be abused.

    So I guess you can see that it would be difficult for Sikhs to follow mass mentality and give in to all around you - Sikhs have been trying to get out of that rut for the last 500-600 years. Being 2% of India's population there is a tendency to be ram rolled into the mass majority but in the time of Guru Nanak he was the only one to start it all (so lot less than 2%).
    By sifting truth (he knew the truth) from religions of the day he convinced both Hindus and Moslems that Truth is the direction and he is revered by both communities even today. Today Hindus want us to be part of them and so do Moslems.

    Present day Sikh movement, I think, is struggling to find its way again by getting out of the oppression and fear of the uneducated masses used by the mafia state as 'their response' of fairness.
    By moving out into other countries where freedom is appreciated they hope that will lead to a commonwealth of Sikhs that will be beamed to whole of the world.

    May be you can explain how your approach can better that?
     
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  12. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear davinder,

    'Go with the flow, end up in the sewer,' my friend.

    You speak two words dear to my heart: 'truth' and 'freedom.' A Fremen sacrifices neither for the sake of his mission. A Fremen is mission-oriented: He does not 'fall in with the masses' as if he were a an ancient Roman citizen cheering in the coliseum out of fear of being labelled 'different,' nor does he merely 'flow with the world,' like a passive Buddhist, not trying to change anything. Of course he tries to change the world! How can one seek truth by merely 'flowing with the masses'? How can one be free if one merely 'falls in with the masses'?

    I respect you Sikhs for the oppression you have resisted, I honour your suffering and your constancy to your best understanding of the One ('God'). And, I honour your Gurus for their sacrifices, in reference to Jesus' words recorded in John 15:13, 'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.' You are welcoming to me and willing to fight online in a respectful and honourable manner. You even call me 'dear' as an alien to your community who does not quite grasp the nuance of your 'ji.'

    The words 'truthful' and 'freedom-loving' are not just meant as adjectives. Fremenism as a discipline is the discipline of truthful freedom, one that your Gurus would have respected and one that is not incompatible with all I know of Sikhism; so, I give two points:

    (a) Does Sikhism deny that man is made in the image of the Creator and, therefore, sacred and above all other forms of created existence? If so, Sikhism contains a fatal flaw. If not, Sikhism is not opposed to Fremenism.

    (b) Does Sikhism teach submission to the will of the One ('God')? If not, Sikhism contains a fatal flaw. If so, Sikhism is not opposed to Fremenism.

    Just as your Gurus, and by extended implication, you, fight also for my beliefs, I, as a Catholic Fremen fight for your freedom and your right to seek the truth also--and, to whatever degree Sikhism embodies Truth, that is how hard I shall fight for it. But, part of fighting is ecumenical dialogue, to achieve mutual understanding that will melt away the fat of our respective philosophies making our metaphysiques, our fighting minds, more like each other, more ready for combat against malicious hostiles rather than against allies in good faith.

    The approach I advocate is only touched on here, by me. To get deeper I must direct your attention towards the philosophy of Classical Humanism, derived from Classical Greece and the Catholic ministry of Jesus Christ, which, taken together, is the engine that powered Europe's progress and allowed it to dominate the world. You speak (or, at least, write) English because Classical Humanism allowed Europe, dominated by the English powers, to conquer the world--including the India that has oppressed you. The great minds of Classical Humanism are not exclusively European; there have been contributions by the Chinese, by the Indians, by the Muslims, and so forth, so, Classical Humanism represents the treasure house and the arsenal of Ideas by which we reorder our minds, by which we reorder our Universe. Knowledge is power, as you must know.

    The Sikhs are numerically tiny, and, if they do not find a good way to fight they will be mere flotsam on the world-ocean, tossed this way and that purposelessly amidst the wars between the numerically greater powers. If the contemporary Sikh movement wishes power, however, it will seek the knowledge of Classical Humanism. 2% of India can transform India. A Sikh commonwealth that partakes of the wisdom of the truth of the world's knowledge-of-principle, embodied in both Classical Art and in principled Science, can transform the world. Joyful suffering amidst flow-submission to the will of the One will ease the passage of the mind out of the womb of death and into the lighted expanse of the desert of Truth and Victory. I recommend this article above all:

    Carl Gauss' Fundamental Theorem of Algebra
    By Bruce Director
    http://www.schillerinstitute.org/educ/pedagogy/gauss_fund_bmd0402.html

    This, if you work through it, will give you insight into the nature of Principle, upon which all Classical Humanism is founded, and which is our only salvation as a species from the presently onrushing Apocalypse of economic and social breakdown.

    If I have not adequately answered your question, please tell me and I will try harder.

    Yours,

    'h'
     
  13. spnadmin

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Sikhism does not teach this. The creator is Self-existent and without form, Nirgun, and therefore man is not "made" in the image of the creator. Therefore the creator has no image. The creator is imminent and pervades all creation. Therefore, creator's image is found in each and every creature. All creation is sacred and all creation is connected through the divine self. Sikhism is not opposed to any path or adherancei that is dharam (in rigtheousness) , and would not disrespect any religion that was.
     
  14. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear spnadmin,

    So, I gather, then, that you would give your life to 'righteously' defend the life of a cockroach, or a tree, since all are sacred?

    Yours,

    'h'
     
  15. spnadmin

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Give your question more thought. I was very thoughtful when I gave my answer, picking out only those comments that required some clarification.

    The fact is that Sikhs are exhorted to "use their minds" as well as their moral natures to solve problems on the planet and to be engaged. Common sense also kicks in. How does the management of cockroaches as a health issue fit into a larger picture of concern for the environment might be a better way to think about things. Mass destruction of cockroaches may or may not have some justification, but do we want to spend time on this issue, using it as a case example for purposes of debate?

    I can't speak for the cockroach problem, thought it is clear that we are not Buddhists. For you I will do some research about this. The question never came up before.

    On the other hand, there are many threads here that do discuss Sikhi as a "green" religion. There is content on the question of trees and wildlife.
     
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  16. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear spnadmin,
    <?"urn:<img src=" />
    I assure you that my question was thoughtful. Your answer to it is crucial with regards to Sikhism's ability to successfully contribute to the survival of human civilisation.

    Cockroaches and health issues are not what I asked about, I asked whether humans have a special ranking in the world, or, are they merely another form of life, as the Deep Ecologists insist? Why did the One ('God') create humans at all?

    Yours,

    'h'
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Thanks for your clarification. It is helpful. We do have threads on the creation of humans, which are very interesting. The subject has many subtleties to it.
     
  18. helgasdogs

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    re: A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

    Dear spnadmin,

    I anticipate your reply to my question with hope.

    Yours,

    'h'
     
  19. spnadmin

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    helgasdogs ji

    It would be better if other forum members had their opportunity to chime in on the discussion. I appreciate your interest and will continue to check in on the thread to see whether I need to contribute more.
     

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