Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Sects 3HO "Gora Sikhs" & Miri Piri Academy - What do you think?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Rory, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Waheguruji ka Khalsa, Waheguruji ki Fateh!

    (You can skip these two paragraphs if you like, they're not so important in relation to the thread!)
    Hey everyone, I'm sure some have you have seen me around and you might already know that I'm an Irish singh who was born here and raised Catholic; I've had a really strong interest in Sikhi the past few months - what really triggered me to study was watching a documentary (it was about a bulk fruit/veg market in the UK, it was showcasing all the different cultures of people who came there etc., hard to explain) and in it there was a Sikh man who was in the market buying a load of (as far as I remember) bananas, to feed people at the Gurdwara.

    I found it really touching and it seemed so amazing, he was just a normal man who was doing his bit. He had a London accent and just seemed like a regular bloke who happened to be a Sikh, I just found it amazing when he explained Sikhs do this charity of letting homeless into their Gurdwara to feed them. He didn't seem like a fanatic or overly-religious, but here he was casually doing this charity work to help people. This is what made me look into Sikhi more and I was so surprised with what I found.

    -

    After researching Sikhi I was interested to know how many white people convert (seeing as I am white) to this religion, and the first article I came upon is this: http://www.rt.com/news/white-sikhs-foreigners-who-found-faith-in-sikhism/

    It talks about the Miri Piri Academy and associated "Kundalini Yoga" or 3HO Sikhs.

    I'd just like to know your opinions of this 3HO group and Kundalini-Yoga/Sikhi-fusion?
    Personally I'm really glad I found out about Sikhi by my own research instead of hearing it through one of these groups, because I really don't like what they are teaching.

    I don't understand why a Sikh would practice yoga - "traditional" or Punjabi Sikhs do not practice kundalini-yoga, why is it that these Westerners (I know I am a Westerner myself!) have come and changed around Sikhi and infused yoga practice with Sikhi? Surely if kundalini-yoga was something necessary in Sikhi then traditional Sikhism would encourage it, but it doesn't, and from my research there's nothing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about kundalini-yoga; aren't the 3HO basically saying that by adding in this practice so religiously, that traditional Sikhi and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are flawed?

    The above paragraph is my opinion only, and I give it in the interest of giving this thread something to start off.

    These might also be worth a read:
    http://www.rickross.com/reference/3ho/3hovisitor.html

    http://www.mysticbanana.com/healthy-happy-holy-organization-and-real-sikhism-is-the-3ho-a-cult.html (read the comments)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    #1 Rory, Jul 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2012
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Yogism 3HO Winter Solstice Interfaith Dialogues Feb 16, 2012
    Yogism 3HO Yoga - Advance Registration - Winter Soltice Event, Florida, US Interfaith Dialogues Sep 30, 2009
    Sects Yogi Bhajan and 3HO History of Sikhism Jan 6, 2008
    Sects The 3HO Debate Thread History of Sikhism May 13, 2006
    Yogism What is 3HO, the Healthy, Happy, Holy Organization Interfaith Dialogues Oct 7, 2004

  3. linzer

    linzer Mexico
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    598
    Just to share my personal experience with 3ho. My wife has studied various forms of yoga since before we married and about five years ago we bought a building for a sales outlet for our bakery. In the back of the building was a space suitable for a yoga studio.
    My wife found a certification program in Mexico City for instructors of Kundalini and took the course. She took the course in spanish and she had to read various lectures of yogi bahjan translated into spanish. She would ask me "what do you think they're trying to say. The translation must be really bad. "
    As it turns out it was'nt the translation.
    We opened the yoga school and invited the instructor from Mexico City to give the course there. I decided that I'd take the course to help my wife, even though yoga has never been of much interest and we needed to have a minimum of ten people in order to open the course, all well and good.
    I ordered the text book in English directly from the states because for one I can read spanish but I lazy. For two we wanted read in english what this guy was trying to say.
    As it turns out it wasn't much. It's really suprising how this guy's incoherent babbling was and continued to be passed off as wisdom.
    We went to 3ho gurdwara which was okay because we didn't know any better. Later we took a trip to India and visited various Gurdwaras including Darbar Sahib. It was after that that I got truly interested in Sikhi. I started studying from sources outside of 3ho, ordered a books from the states checked out sites on the net, etc..
    I came to the conclusion very quickly that these people did'nt know much about sikhi. A good example is that they tell people that it's not necessary to understand what Gurbani means just the vibration of Shabad Guru will change you at the molecular level. I'm not kidding.
    About half way through the course I was fed up and wanted to quit but my wife convinced me to keep on because it would look bad if one of the owner quit before the course was over.
    Another example of silliness was in one class they said that Granth means knot. Okay. I looked it up every way that I could and only came up with book or volume. When I brought this up to the instructor she said" You won't find this in any dictionary!"
    to which I replied "then you mean yogi bhajan made it up"
    to which she responded " scholars don't know the secret of Shabad Guru."
    I was pretty much dumbfounded. How do you respond to that?
    To make a long story a little longer, We started going to Gurdwara that is mostly ethnic Indian Sikhs, but also a few 3ho. When the people from the 3ho Gurdwara found out they called my wife ranting and raving and told her that it was us or them. She said "Okay them."
    I used to be really irritated by the distortion of Sikhi that Yogi bhajan has done but now I find it mostly sad that these people blindly follow this cult without taking the time to study what is Sikhi.
    Just by the way my wife has stopped giving kundalini beacause yogi bhajan didn't know anything about yoga either and that he got his "mantras from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is offensive.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    #2 linzer, Jul 9, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2012
  4. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Thanks for the post linzerji, it seems the only people with a lot of positive things to say about the 3HO are.. well, people who are members of the 3HO.

    It's nice to know you found your way out of 3HO and did some research for yourself :) It makes it kind of awkward, I think, for white people like me with an interest in Sikhi - non-3HO white Sikhs are definitely a minority. :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    Most of the 3HO Sikhs are non-Indian Sikhs (I wouldn't say white etc.). Many of them follow the Rehat Maryada, but some of them might not even been to Amritsar or well versed with Sikh traditions. Some of the Kundalini yoga learners take up part Sikh look (e.g. wear turban but cut hair). It is hard to say how many are just Kundalini Yoga learners or Sikhs who are yogis. The community is a wide spectrum of accepted members between Yoga and Sikhi. But the problem is that some of the Yogis are going more towards Hindu mythology and philosophy.

    Sikhnet is a well known Sikh website and is taken care of by 3HO Sikhs. Most of it is neutral material. But their camps are more known for Yoga than Sikhi teaching.

    Yoga is an exercise of the body. But first we need the exercise of mind, and it comes with reading Gurbani. Anyway most of the western people who come in contact with 3HO are in for Yoga and less for Sikhi.

    According to 3HO, Kundalini is something they do like 'Indian' Sikhs might do Kabaddi. But I am unsure how much free are they of the Sanatani/Hindu influence.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. linzer

    linzer Mexico
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    598
    I prefer to think that I never entered rather than that I escaped.
    The thing that concerns me most about these people is that they give the wrong impression of Sikhi and people who might otherwise be interested are turned off by their craziness.
     
  7. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    linzerji, that is what gets to me most about them.

    Kanwaljit-ji, all I have read indicates they are very Hindu-influenced, even the ones who are geared more towards Sikhi.
    http://whitesikhsect-3ho.blogspot.ie/

    That blog says that Yogi Bhajan also taught a lot of things based on astrology, as far as I know astrology is not something accepted in Sikhi.

    I'm going to wait until someone answers from the 3HO camp before I post again, I think otherwise this thread might start to look like an attempt at slander.

    EDIT: In relation to Sikhnet, I was reading an article there last night about meditation and one of the first things they mentioned was kundalini yoga, I don't know if I would call this neutral - the website casually instructed me to follow a PDF of kundalini yoga positions before meditation, claiming that it was important to stretch and build up energies..?
     
  8. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    The blog is a collection of their anti-Sikh activities, but it would be unfair to impose that all of them have the same disposition! Yes many of my friends have interacted with people who have recently become 3HO qualified yoga teachers and those who give sermons in Canadian Gurudwaras (non-3HO). A sense of discomfort is observed when hearing their views, for they are not similar to ours. I think we had some people affiliated with 3HO on our website. Best would be to get Gurmustuk and Guruka Singh here, provided they are treated finely like brothers!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    2,749
    I have looked into these kundalini practices and...................I don't actually think that most of the scholars really understand what they are talking about.
    .......However, ONE thing that I have learnt is that you DON'T need this yoga practice to get your kundalini to Rise. --Infact this so called kundalini that some of them talk about,- I don't even think they have a clue or any experience!!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Kamala

    Kamala
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    145
    Kundalini practice is like a recreation that is not banned in Sikhism, like how you would play the Piano or have Dance class.
     
  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,120
    Likes Received:
    7,947
    Kamalaji,

    Maybe in Sanatan Sikhism, Kundalini is like a recreation that is not banned, however, P1043 of the SGGS, like, does quite state, like, the opposite, like, in fact, I think the phrase used is empty hypocritical practices



    ਨਿਉਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਭਾਠੀ ॥
    निउली करम भुइअंगम भाठी ॥
    Ni▫ulī karam bẖu▫i▫angam bẖāṯẖī.
    Inner cleansing techniques, channeling the energy to raise the Kundalini to the Tenth Gate,

    ਰੇਚਕ ਕੁੰਭਕ ਪੂਰਕ ਮਨ ਹਾਠੀ ॥
    रेचक कु्मभक पूरक मन हाठी ॥
    Recẖak kumbẖak pūrak man hāṯẖī.
    inhaling, exhaling and holding the breath by the force of the mind -

    ਪਾਖੰਡ ਧਰਮੁ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਸਉ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧੪॥
    पाखंड धरमु प्रीति नही हरि सउ गुर सबद महा रसु पाइआ ॥१४॥
    Pakẖand ḏẖaram parīṯ nahī har sa▫o gur sabaḏ mahā ras pā▫i▫ā. ||14||
    by empty hypocritical practices, Dharmic love for the Lord is not produced. Only through the Word of the Guru's Shabad is the sublime, supreme essence obtained. ||14|
     
    • Like Like x 6
  12. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Thanks for that, harryji
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    Historian SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Gora Sikhs are the fastest growing group of Sikhs.

    3HO is a sect of Sikhism that acknowledges the supremacy of the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct), but has its own additions.

    The Sikh Guru's saw know need to pursue things like Yoga as it was seen as something done by the idol as Harry Haller has stated.

    Nanak said " Higher than truth is truthful living" i.e. its better not to spend all your time talking about truth or doing pointless things that maybe connected to truth but actually go out and practice truth i.e. work hard, exercise, look after your family etc etc.

    The ideal Sikh is a Saint Soldier, who posses knowledge and also martial qualities to protect the weak and poor.

    This man buying banana's was practicing truth. I suppose he could of meditated on it through Yoga but his action spoke much louder.

    In short:

    1) Nourish your mind - learn (Sikh)
    2) Exercise and pursue self defence ad nourish it with good food.
    3) Read study your Guru, the Guru Granth Sahib.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  14. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    That's really true only at the present time. It is all in His Will that things will keep changing. The way you. new Sikhs, are discussing these important issues, it won't be too long that your group will expand in no time.

    Punjabi Sikhs on the other hand are not so, forth-coming towards expanding the faith's horizons beyond their own culture - Punjabis. So you ARE the new breed of Sikhs who will increase in leaps and remain in chardi kala.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Thanks for the post Astroboy, that's really encouraging :D
    Out of interest, is there anything in Sri Guru Granth Sahib-ji that talks about the growth of the Sikh population?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    Rory Ji,

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was composed before Sikhism started as a religion and therefore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not talk about one particular sect of people but all of humanity. The shabad below is for all alike:

    Page 671, Line 7
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਸਾਰੁ ਪਸਾਰਿਓ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
    Barahm pasār pasāri▫o bẖīṯar saṯgur ṯe sojẖī pā▫ī. ||2||
    God, who expanded His expanse, is within all; I learned this from the True Guru. ||2||
    Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
  18. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Thanks for clearing that up, Astroboy ji.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. linzer

    linzer Mexico
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    598
    From my experience the type of people that are attracted to the 3ho type of sikhi are the ones that looking for as we say in Mexico, El Hilo Negro (the black thread) which is to say the one answer for every question, the one thing that solves every problem in their lives. Yogi bhajan told people that if you recite certain pauris of the japji a certain number of times it will bring you prosperity, happiness, whatever, depending on the pauri, if you can sing a certain shabad it will change you destiny. Basically If you follow his recipes without question you will live a happy healthy and holy life. The problem comes when these elevated expectations aren’t met. We’ve seen many people enter this then leave bitterly disappointed. The other thing that we’ve noticed at least here in Mexico is that those that convert to and remain in sikhi only work as yoga instructors. We could think of only one person that works at real job.
    I have no problem with yoga as exercise which is what most other types of yoga are .Kundalini yoga ,as invented by yogi bhajan is a faux spiritual type of yoga and supposedly connects you with god. As exercise it sucks. If you know the least little bit of kinesiology you can tell that most of the exercised do no good at all on the physical level and some can cause serious damage. I myself was injured by some of the exercises and know of serveral others.
    From what I’ve seen I would say that 100% of “3ho Sikhs practice yoga. On several occasions I’ve seen people practicing supposed postures yoga, mudras etc. during Gurdwara.
    In one Gurdwara they actually stopped the kirtan to show a video of yogi bhajan mumbling his incoherent idiocies while someone was translating (badly) into Spanish.
    It is also very common to have a giant photo of yogi bhajan above the S.G.G.S. For example just last week we visited a 3ho gurdwara in another city .In front of the S.G.G.S. there was fruit, candles, crystals, pictures of Guru Ramdas, and behind hung above the S.G.G.S. a great big photo of you know who. All of this is specifically prohibited by the S.R.M. But I’m picking nits.
    As for following the rehat maryada sure most of the dedicated ones keep the 5ks but they fall down badly in other areas. By the way like everything else in 3h0 it’s not free your have to buy a copy of their rehat and it isn’t cheap.
    The S:R:M says that you should earn a living by honest means I wouldn’t say that giving classes of bad yoga during which you make wildly unfounded claims of its’ special benefits or charging outrageous sums of classes of Numerology Tantrica is “honest”. But that’s just me.
    3ho is definitely a sanatan form of sikhi .I would even venture to say that Yogi bhajan was R.S.S. agent.
    We have Gurdwara here on occasion with the help of the the sangat of Mexico city and we are hoping to have gurdwara more frequently. My wife and I are learning kirtan though neither of us have musical background we find it very rewarding. We do what we can so more people come in contact with the message of Guruji.
    So much for my rant. Gurfateh
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Rory

    Rory
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    323
    Thanks for the input linzerji.

    I'm relatively new to Sikhi but 3HO practices really annoy me.. if I saw a picture of Yogi Bhajan in a Gurdwara, I would forget the fact that I have only been studying a couple of months and I would rip that picture down and fling it out the door. This kind of complete undermining of religion by people who are essentially outsiders, it really really annoys me.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page