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Islam 10 Questions to Sikhs from Muslims

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by SikhstoIslam, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. SikhstoIslam

    SikhstoIslam
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    Hi there all,

    I run a website for Sikh Converts to Islam ( you can get the address off my profile, or visit Welcome to Sikhs2Islam.

    Here is an article from the site :-

    10 Questions to Sikhs The aim of this section is to illustrate the Sikh “belief” as baseless and without foundation. It asks Sikhs, whether they can provide answers to the below questions that led us to leave falsehood and follow the truth of Islam. Any one who wishes to discuss these questions further can contact us at SikhstoIslam@gmail.com.
    1. Is Guru Nanak a False Prophet?
    Guru Nanak Dev was born in Punjab, India, on 20 October 1469, to a Hindu family. By the time of his death on 22 September 1539, according to Sikh Scriptures ( more of which later ) , he had “millions” of followers.
    Now, Guru Nanak never claimed to be a prophet in his lifetime. However, if the scriptures of the Sikh religion are to be believed, he believed himself to be inspired from God, and to bring teachings of God. For example :-
    “There is no Muslim, there is no Hindu”
    "One who recognizes the One Lord among all beings does not talk of ego.”
    These are clear atonements, meant to inspire and motivate Sikhs and non-Sikhs to alter their lives and live according to Sikhism. Sikhs often claim that the Guru’s were merely teachers, or guides, and were not Prophets.
    However, if we consult the linguistic definition of Prophet, we discover the following meanings of the term :-
    “A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.”
    “someone who speaks by divine inspiration; someone who is an interpreter of the will of God”
    “a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader”
    Therefore, whenever anyone claims to speak on behalf of God, rationally and linguistically that person is considered to be claiming Prophethood.
    When a person claims Prophethood, this claim must then be verified. Prophets throughout history have brought miracles to demonstrate to their people ( Moses, Abraham, David, and Others, may peace be upon them all ) . For example Moses spilt the Red Sea, David was able to melt metal in his hands, and Abraham was able to withstand fire. These miracles have been verified both through scriptures and through science.
    There are also many false Prophets. These have included David Icke , Mirza Ghulam Ahmad , and many others.
    By Sikhs refusing to acknowledge that Guru Nanak was claiming to be a Prophet, they sidestep this issue. This is in order to avoid any means of principles of falsification, in order to confirm or disprove the Guru’s “Prophethood”.
    It is the contention of the author however that Guru Nanak was a False Prophet, or was falsely claimed to be a prophet by his followers. Any information regarding his “true” Prophethood can be sent to SikhstoIslam@gmail.com, for verification.
    2. Are the Sikh Scriptures authentic?
    In order for anyone to follow Gods teachings, one must be sure, with absolute certainty and without doubt, that the teachings they are following are authentic. Sikhism has a number of scriptures which they claim are written by Gurus ( and therefore divinely inspired ). However, these scriptures can be proven to have no historical or authentic basis.
    A. the Janamsakhi
    Sikhs claim that the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi was written by Bala Sandhu, a disciple of Guru Nanak. However, Guru Angad, the next Guru in succession, had never heard of Bala Sandhu. In addition to this, Bala Sandhu is not mentioned by Bhai Gurdas. How can Guru Nanaks closest confidants and disciples not know Bala Sandhu?
    There are a number of other errors. For example, the rhythmic prose used in the verse was written by the third and fifth Guru’s, so how can this be present chronologically earlier? Also, the language used was not even present in society for over 100 years after the death of Guru Nanak.
    How can it be that a divinely inspired work, detailing the life of the Guru, can be so inaccurate?
    B.The Guru Granth Sahib Ji

    Sikhs claim that this book is the “Eleventh” and final Guru, and should be regarded and revered as a Guru. There is even a tale of this book, upon compilation, to be given its own bed whilst a Guru, Guru Arjan slept on the floor!
    For this book to be the 11th Guru, the final way to God and scripture in its own right, surely it would have to be a perfect book, free from errors and contradictions? However, we find that this is not the case. Some errors include :-
    • Teaching God to be “Sargun” (Possessing Attributes) and “Nargun” ( Possessing no Attributes).
    • Claims there is only one way to God, then says many ways
    • Reincarnation is taught in one section, yet is rejected elsewhere
    How can it be that a Divinely inspired book, a Guru, a way to God, be so full of contradictions?
    In addition to this, the Book provides no details of the origins of the Earth or of Man, and provides no answers to “where did we come from” as a result. Surely any divinely inspired text would present Gods answer to these questions?
    3. How can Re-Incarnation be Accurate?
    In Sikhism, it is the belief that through righteous deeds one achieves salvation, and a “oneness” with God. The main method of this is through “karma”, or the reward of your efforts in this life being rewarded in the next, and so on and so on until spiritual union with God is achieved.
    Though this sounds like a nirvana of sorts, it is completely non-sensical. Reincarnation cannot possibly be true as :-
    1. How can the world be in decline, when spiritual karma is meant to increase and improve the world? What is the source for evil originally? Who was the original evildoer according to Sikhism, and which sent a perpetual evil through the earth, increasing its trials?
    2. There is no justice in re-incarnation, as you become a new entity, with no recollection of a past life. Therefore, it is the entity that is being unfairly punished, and not you.
    3. Why are there more bodies on earth now, than there was before? Where do these new Souls emerge from?
    Re-incarnation is therefore absurd, and cannot be correct because it does not agree with rationality.
    4. How can God be Omnipotent and within Evil?
    For Sikhs to state that God is “all pervading and is in all directions. God is omniscient, omnipotent and loves all”, what does that mean?
    Firstly how can God be in everything? Would God be in Impure things such as Excreta?
    Secondly, how can God be within everyone? What is the point, according to Sikhism, of trying to attain Union with God, when God is already within us according to their scriptures? How can God be within people and objects which are intrinsically evil?
    5. How can Sikhs claim to have a complete way of Life?
    Sikhism is claimed to be a complete way of life, but Sikhism does not have the answers from their scriptures for the following questions :-
    1. How much tax should I pay in a Sikh State, as a Non-Sikh?
    2. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding testimony in a court?
    3. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding the sentence for stealing?
    4. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding the age of maturity?
    5. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding my relations with my neighbour?
    6. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding how I should treat an animal?
    7. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding lawful earnings?
    8. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding killing a non-Sikh and the punishment for that?
    9. What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding riding a horse?
    10. What is the ruling in Sikhism if I use a nuclear weapon?
    Sikhism only covers prayer and religious obligations. It has no understanding of how to interact with the real world. It has no detailed economic system, social system, or ruling system.
    Sikhism is not alone in this. There is no belief in the entire world, except Islam, that has the answers to problems that mankind encounter on a day to day basis. In Islam, the Qu’ranic verses on Society outnumber verses on individual worship many times over. In the hadith books, only 3 or 4 chapters relate to ibadaat ( individual worship ), whilst over 100 chapters in Bukhari relate to muamalaat ( societal transactions).
    Islam contains a complete ruling, economic, social and ritual system, applicable to all times and places because it is from the Creator, Allah (SWT), your God and my God.
    6. What is a Just War in Sikhism?
    Sikhism is often presented as a peaceful, non-violent religion. However, it has a concept of Dharam Yudh, which is loosely translated as “Just War”. In this, Sikhs believe that war can be initiated as a last option, and the motivation cannot be revenge.
    When we see this in practice however, we can see that very rarely has a Sikh War been any different to any other war fought on behalf of misguided religions : For Land, Nation and Resources.
    Examples of this include :-
    • The forceful passing of a resolution to cede Water and Electricity Boards to Punjab Control in the region
    • The murder of Indian Police officers in 1982 – 1983, in revenge
    • Bhindrandales Murder of two nirinkari Gurus in 1981
    • Bombing of Cinemas in Delhi in 2005
    • Bombing of Air India Flight 182
    Most people will realise that these examples cited appear far from “Just”. Often, they appear to target civilians. If such action is justified according to these principles, then on what basis?
    If the Gurus are false Prophets, the Scriptures inaccurate, and the concepts and precepts erroneous, then how can Sikhism be used to take life unjustly?
    7. How can God Create himself?
    According to Guru Nanak Dev, he claims that “God himself told me that he is self-created”.
    How can God be subject to laws and constraints of his own creation? Concepts such as time, form, shape, etc, are constructs of God. As an unlimited entity, how can God be subject to limited constraints, such as “creating”.
    Surely, as God, he is outwith all such concepts. To ask how God is “made” is to misunderstand what God is.
    8. Why can Sikh women not Divorce?
    Sikhism still does not give the right of divorce to its adherents except in extreme circumstances, and even then since it is not legislated within Sikhism this is decided by Western or Hindu Courts.
    This is mentioned in many sources, and some quotes from Sikhs are as follows :-
    “In the case of broken marriage, divorce is not possible according to the Sikh religious tradition. The couple can, however, obtain a divorce under the Civil law of the land.”
    Of more concern is how Sikhs refuse to even consider divorce, leaving the spouse trapped in a loveless marriage. Take this example from the Sikh Spectrum Magazine :-
    When two souls become one, there is no duality between the way a husband and a wife think. Whatever they do, they do it together. A divorce, in such a case, is inconceivable.
    It is incredulous that anything calling itself “the modern religion” still does not emancipate women and give them independence.
    9. How can Sikhs Claim that there are “many paths to God”, then he Punishes those whom do not adhere to Sikhism ?
    It is claimed Sikhism is non-discriminatory, and that everyone should love each other as human beings, with no-one having a variable status, no-one being “high or low”. His statement is as follows :-
    “In Sikhism everyone is equal. All people of different colour, religion, caste, creed, race and sex are equal in the eyes of God. No one is high or low. All are children of God created by God and God loves them all.”
    However, the Guru’s own teachings portray a different version of events. :-
    Favouring of those in Khalsa
    Khalsa is the baptizing of Sikhs, who take an Oath to promote and preserve the five Ks of Sikhism. These Sikhs are to be considered to hold a higher status over that of ordinary persons, and thereby this exposes a hierarchical system. Quotations regarding this brotherhood include :-
    he who recognises the One God and no pilgrimages, alms-giving, non-destruction of life, penances, or austerities; and in whose heart the light of the Perfect One shines, - he is to be recognised as a pure member of the Khalsa”
    Thereby, if we are to believe this Guru, and by proxy the beliefs of Sikhism itself, then God, through the Gurus, considered those persons inferior whom :-
      • Engage in Pilgrimages
      • Fasts
      • Worships Idols
    Are thereby considered inferior in Gods eyes (according to the Gurus).
    In addition to this, those who eat meat, those that cut their hair, and many other tenets of Sikh faith that are violated, God will punish them through re-incarnation, even though these people are also following a path (as they perceive it ) to God.
    In Sikhs claims that there are “no chosen people”, why must people adhere to Sikhism to be saved? Why must they take the Khalsa ?
    10. Why is Sikhism Not Evangelical?
    If Sikhism is Gods religion, which is the destiny of all if they are to be saved, and the only way to enlightenment ( as Sikhs perceive it ) is to follow the “Way of the Gurus”, then why do Sikhs not debate and discuss their faith in the World and try to convert others to it?
    Is this fair, if it is the truth ( which it is not ), then why do Sikhs not ask others to join it?
    Conclusion
    No doubt this article has encouraged and enraged Sikhs in equal measure, however the lines of dialogue for both are open. Please contact Sikhstoislam@gmail.com if you wish to discuss any of the points raised in this.





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  3. Arvind

    Arvind
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    SPN viewers:

    I am in favor of keeping such articles here on SPN... as a reminder of how brainwashing is done by different sections.

    Regards.
     
  4. Gurcharan

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    Re: 10 Questions to Sikhs from Muslims.

    Thank you. You have encouraged me NOT enraged me.
    I have never been prouder being a sikh. I smiled while reading your article. Oh moorakh, you know so little of all things true. If ever, you had the strength to read our japji SAHIB alone, reading from the inner heart will make you understand why I am so happy to be a sikh.If ever I can ask a gift from Waheguru, I will ask to be re-born, always a sikh.

    One day, may you be enlightened.
    God Bless.
     
  5. Gurcharan

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    Dear Brother,

    You are correct. Such articles are wake up calls.
    United we remain steadfast.

    God Bless
     
  6. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and SikhtoIslam Ji!

    God gives birth to all with a Dharma. Some go completely astray when ignorance overrules them. Ego convinces them that they can change it.

    I have read your views with enthusiasm. This is my understanding to your questions.

    **************
    1. Is Guru Nanak a False Prophet?
    No.

    Quote "However, if we consult the linguistic definition of Prophet, we discover the following meanings of the term :-
    “A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.”
    “someone who speaks by divine inspiration; someone who is an interpreter of the will of God”
    “a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader”
    Therefore, whenever anyone claims to speak on behalf of God, rationally and linguistically that person is considered to be claiming Prophethood."

    Guru Nanak dev Ji has the above qualities and a lot more. Guru Nanak Dev Ji is more than a Prophet. He is right now here too. That is why we cannot forget Him. We feel His presence again while discussing this.

    Quote "By Sikhs refusing to acknowledge that Guru Nanak was claiming to be a Prophet, they sidestep this issue. This is in order to avoid any means of principles of falsification, in order to confirm or disprove the Guru’s 'Prophethood'."

    Only ego claims to be something else than God. Guru Nanak Dev Ji never claimed to be a Prophet. God never claims to be a prophet because then HE will restrict Him to a limitation. Do we know a Prophet who has claimed something?
    I do not have words to praise the silence of Guru Nanak Ji on this topic. This makes me understand when Sikhs sidestep this issue.

    Quote "It is the contention of the author however that Guru Nanak was a False Prophet, or was falsely claimed to be a prophet by his followers. Any information regarding his “true” Prophethood can be sent to SikhstoIslam@gmail.com, for verification."

    Some people may have a Prophet's picture in mind and his prophet hood when they write this. "For example Moses spilt the Red Sea, David was able to melt metal in his hands, and Abraham was able to withstand fire. These miracles have been verified both through scriptures and through science."
    Their Prophets may go for shows on stages or Jury to get a place in a book of records.

    Guru Nanak Dev Ji finds it Sahaj, merging in God.

    **************
    2. Are the Sikh Scriptures authentic?
    YES.
    The understanding from your writing proves how much the consciousness is awaken. I feel we understand as much as our mind is conscious. One may let this develop with God's Grace to enliven a holy Scripture. Or he may criticize Scriptures when he feels unable.

    **************
    3. How can Re-Incarnation be Accurate?
    One may find it accurate by experiencing it. All can go back on their memory track to remember the last lives. One may consult any competent person to remember the previous life these days. One may also come to know true Simran of Naam to transcend all the lives and merge in God.


    **************

    4. How can God be Omnipotent and within Evil?
    For some this is a riddle. Others enliven this as Truth. What is your wish?

    **************

    5. How can Sikhs claim to have a complete way of Life?
    The Gurus have given true Sikhs the way to grow on conscious level. They get all the answers to manage the world within and around it.

    Quote "There is no belief in the entire world, except Islam, that has the answers to problems that mankind encounter on a day to day basis."
    I am not sure if this belief could convince God and His Universe.

    **************
    6. What is a Just War in Sikhism?
    All that is God's Will, Hukam.

    **************
    7. How can God Create himself?
    Become God to know this. Easiest way is true Simran.

    **************
    8. Why can Sikh women not Divorce?
    I feel some do not understand this. A true Sikh found no way to get divorce from God once married.

    **************
    9. How can Sikhs Claim that there are “many paths to God”, then he Punishes those whom do not adhere to Sikhism ?
    Once it is found, the true Sikh knows how to return home from everywhere. That is why he praises all the Paths. Those feel punished who have lost home and their way also.

    **************
    10. Why is Sikhism Not Evangelical?

    Quote " . . . why do Sikhs not debate and discuss their faith in the World and try to convert others to it?"
    Quote " . . . why do Sikhs not ask others to join it?"

    The true Sikh as His Guru suggests knowing true Simran. True conversion takes place at levels of consciousness.


    **************
    Conclusion

    This should not enrage Muslims. God may help Muslims too finding their home.


    Balbir Singh
     
  7. max314

    max314
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    Ah, this could be a fascinating discussion. It would be nice if you could provide links to this thread from your site if you haven't done so already, by the way. Just so we can get a really active and rounded discussion.

    So a summary of that above passage would be:

    "A Prophet should be capable of performing miracles."

    That is obviously your opinion, that a Prophet should be capable of performing miracles, and you base this quality on past Prophets.

    But, in none of those definitions you give of being a Prophet (i.e. “A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed”, “someone who speaks by divine inspiration; someone who is an interpreter of the will of God”, “a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader”) is there any mention of performing miracles.

    With all due respect, it would seem that you are imposing your own personal standards as to what constitutes Prophethood that are contrary to the very definitions you have provided.

    Personally, I don't put much stake in miracles. Cheap tricks are not the way to a peaceful living, and Guru Nanak believed that. I believe that the truth is often distorted through time. One person tells another person who tells another person. School games like Chinese Whispers proove that distortion of truth across time is an innate human quality. Before you know it, a simple example of a pebble causing ripples in a pond becomes the parting of an entire sea of water...

    I also believe that Guru Nanak, Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Moses, Buddha, and all the other instigators of worlds faiths were no more 'divine' than you or I. Their enlightenment took the form of an understanding of societies needs and the requirements of what it would take to turn selfish animals into a noble family of people.

    You are making assertions and half-deductions. Until you can provide concrete evidence to prove otherwise, I'm afraid that there is little substance to this claim.

    The application of music to the verses of the Granth is nothing all that significant, other than the fact that it makes them sound good. These are easily altered and there is nothing erroneous about this at all.

    I don't know where all this information is coming from about language use and which historical figures knew other ones (I doubt any of it is completely reputable, since I don't know many 600 year old people), but I do know that the fifth Guru, Arjun Dev, oversaw the redrafting of Guru Nanak's work as the Granth was beginning to be compiled under his supervision. If there do indeed exist such linguistic alterations/updates, it was undoubtedly done during this time...which, I believe, was approximately 100 years after Guru Nanak's death.

    For the sake of illustration, gurbani describes God/the Cosmos/the Universe as being existent in two levels: the manifest and the unmanifest (i.e. sargun and nargun). This is, of course, completely subjective and is described from the human experience of the universe.

    Maya is what we perceive as the physical universe. God is manifest in what our five senses can detect (i.e. sargun[/i]).

    But there are things in the universe that we cannot see or smell or taste or touch. And this is what is referred to as the unmanifest world (i.e. nirgun).

    Why? What would you do with those answers?

    The only thing that matters is what you can do in this lifetime. Not dwelling on the events that took place billions of years ago.

    In this sense, and many others, Sikkhism is a very pragmatic faith. It is forward looking and progressive. It established the first democratic body seen in Asia (the akal takht), and promoted hard work, family life and charitable conduct, and humility as the ultimate ideals.

    Worrying about a distant and insignificant past is not something considered to be important for social development and tolerance.

    For someone who has obviously gone to considerable trouble to create this post, you really should be giving more specific quotations to back up your claims.

    Personally, I've never interpreted the texts of the Granth as promoting 'reincarnation' in the characturist fashion that many perceive.

    I see it as a manifestation of Newton's First Law: energy is neither creted nor destroyed, it merely changes form. When we die, the constituent molecules in our body change to become something else. They don't just disappear.

    Also, my interpretation of the Guru Granth Sahib leads me to believe that 'salvation' is simply the act of being at peace when you die by overcoming the five thieves of attachment, greed, lust, anger and ego, and by being satisfied that you have lead a full and moral life. It's not something 'supernatural' or ethereal. It's something very real.

    Certainly, you can't be suggesting that the Islamic notion of a Heaven that resembles a Tesco's supermarket is any more "absurd" than that?

    I don't know from where you pulled that quote. I'd like to see the origin source. If it has one.

    You are imposing your own subjective, human perspectives onto a God who does not relate to anything you are saying. Shit is only "impure" to you because we have evolved to understand that our bodies don't respond well to it. It's a purely biological issue. We perceive it to be "ew! Gross!", but it's actually nothing more than a chemical compund that's come about as a result of biochemical processes. Just as a small obiter dicta, cow dung is actually considered to be very hygenic and sanitary. But even then, that's just a perception because of what it means to us, and not the universe at large.

    Free your mind, brotha :D

    Again, you're basing this on a third hand interpretation of Sikkh scriptures.

    My personal interpretation is that we are already One with God. If you insist on some kind of spiritual 'salvation', then it's attained simply by realising that simple fact.

    Also, "evil" is something that we perceive. We project it onto things. It's an extrapolation of our survivial instincts. Little else.

    Well, this is all a matter of assertion, isn't it? I'm very happy that the Koran decides to lay out every facet of life in a regimented routine, and that you are happy to obide by this.

    But it depends on what you're looking for in a particular faith.

    I've never called Sikkhism a religion. Religion creates hatred-inciting division, and this kind of hatred-inciting religion was something that Guru Nanak was vehemently opposed to.

    Khalsaism, however, is a religion (though whether or not you consider it "complete" is up to you :}{}{}:).

    You assume that all Sikkhs who claim to have killed for their religion or community were doing the right thing.

    That would be like me coming to you and saying that Islam sucks because it promotes the 9/11 hijackings.

    That is, obviously, not true.

    The actions of the individuals aren't a necessary reflection of the ideoligies they claim to follow.

    Dude, you have got to tell me where you're getting these quotes from :}{}{}:

    Anyway, the bottom line is this: if you start asking questions on "how" and "why" God can do certain things, it would be like your dog enquiring "how" or "why" you are going to work/school...only with a one thousand time greater distance of understanding :}{}{}:

    Again, you are assuming that God's qualities are your human qualities, and the mool mantra states that God has no human qualities.

    You're confusing societal norms with religious practices.

    Sikkhism says nothing about divorce. It is neither for nor against it.

     
  8. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    Admin Note: Last few posts removed. Please discuss about the topic in hand with logical reasoning. Please adhere to Terms of Service strictly. Thanks. :)
     
  9. amar_jkp

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    yes i used some words that were not right but i just want to say there was no angel name gabriel this is just another imaginary character like hindu gods.
    these muslims fools need to understand muhhamad was a fake prophet no gabriel no koran and thier shria law is like a tribal law
     
  10. navroopsingh

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    No religion has a holy scripture written by their own prophets let alone members of different faiths. Sikhism is so beautiful, one such as you could not understand it through your disgusting ignorance. Please stop brainwashing the youth with your Quran in which it explains the proper ways to have a Holy war. As Gurcharan said, just read Jap Ji sahib, it is meant to be read during Amrit Vela for a reason.

    Vyheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Vyheguru Ji ki Fateh!
     
  11. hpluthera

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    Sikhs to Islam

    No knowledge is better than half knowledge in Gurbani there is couplet:
    "Murakh Naal Na Lujhiye Jan Pachhotayiee"

    You have come to Sikh Philosophy forum to ask 10 questions with an ego full of superiority of Islam over Guru Nanak's Bani without even knowing a little part of it a person who is preconditioned and have a judgement not doubt can not be reasoned with or even informed let alone convinced.

    My brief rebuttal to all you 10 question is :
    These are without foundation and complete knowledge of Gurbani.
    1. Guru Nanak was not Prophet therefore you can not say he was a false prophet but he was Nirankar swaroop.
    2.To a non believer every scripture is unauthentic even Koran and Bible or any other. Muslims chose to call all those who did not believe in Koran Kafirs but Guru Nanak included every one Gurbani unlike other religious scriptures is inclusive not exclusive. The SGGS was compiled from the "sanchis of Guru Nanak" which were the written record. The SGGS is the best historical and cultural record of India of those days and particularly Punjab. Your arguments and quotes have no substance or ground except that these are concoted to confuse those who are not having great knowledge of sikh scriptures and history like you departed to embrace others.
    3.Sikhi does not seek salvation it is beyond it and insist that this human form is the final time to meet and merge with the Supreme so you have misconceived or misunderstood. the whole universe is invaded by the Supreme every thing is from with in HIm. Light and Dark "Paap or Pun".
    4.Sikhi believs in Democracy and emerging Societies to take care of their Management as the time culture climate require. Spiritual truths are permanent and they are firm but social political ways change with time as long as the humanitarian grounds are not missed. Unfortunately Islam is still stuck with 1000 years old ways as were existing in the Arab world and there are suffring women children and hatred for others. So it is relevant that religious book is not the place for ruling government all the time the constitution is hence SGGS has granted great freedom to Sikhs to live any where and still fit in well.
    4. How can you be happy one moment angry other? So every thing is here with in same wood of tree give you shade and coolant effect and the same wood when burn give you warmth. You can not see the fire in the wood so you can ot see Almighty Nirankars quality for that you have to first come on that path of Sikhi That is "Apne Gur Ka sun Updesh" and Keep His Name in your Heart all the time and you shall be free from all questions"
    5.Yes the actions of individuals aren't a necessary reflection of the ideoligies they claim to follow but the responsibility does stuck on the whole community tha is why all minority have to be watchful to ward off "Behroopia" acting irresponsibly in Sikh uniform to give them a bad Name and that has been happening with Sikhs for last many decades. To understand Sikhi its Hisory is the greatest evidence that all Sikh wars were faught to stop the atrocities on weak and to protect the week against "Jaalams".
    In today's human smuggling era where the illegal migration is better and more profitable business than drugs where the payment is made before the delivery. Sikhs were targetted as hardworking community and the circumstances were created by that smuggling community as Billions of Dollars were involved and Sikh farmers were in a position to pay that. Many so called Sikhs who perpetrated these acts were not Sikhs but from across our borders paid Behroopias. the First two cases wrer personal and emotional matter of those who did it. Sikhs are always law abiding hard working people who enjoy life even in adversities and have big heart to help those in distress even at the cost of forgetting their own distress. It is generally in Punjabi Culture and particularly in Sikh because of Gurus Teachings of Seva.
    6. When there was nothing He was there in "Sun Smadhi" and then He created every thing so Gurbani Says. So if creater can not create who else? you ?definitely not.
    7.You are wrong Sikhism does not suggest that. hence no eply is required.

    8. Sikhs are law abiding and freedom to live in any government systems and will follow that law of divorce as I aid before SGGS is not Book it is devine revelation

    9. Your mind set is in Islam convertion convert who yes a person like you can be advised to convert to better thinking. Basically there is no two Gods only one and if you believe in the One what problem I have you may Call Him Allah I may not. Yes some unenlightened Muslims do have problem. So there are either believer or a non believer. The one who believes he will automatically know me and Sikhism and all because he is worshiping the same One God. It may be politically required to convert people religiously not.
    10. Again you are wrong here there is nothing superior or inferior but some do like moolahs have infilterated amongst Sikhs to corrupt Sikhi Way. All Khalsas are Sikhs but all Sikhs may not be Khalsa. "tre Parkar Mum Sikh Hain Sahji, Charni, Khandhni" Guru Gobind.
     
  12. simran1504

    simran1504
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    :)

    I request to all the members of this site that please use this site to preach sikhism & not criticise it.

    I am a young sikh respect all religions whether its Islam, Christianity, Budhism or any other religon. God has chosen a religon for us thats the reason we are born in a sikh family. I am proud to be a sikh.
     
  13. navroopsingh

    navroopsingh
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    I agree with you simran,

    I guess you are right. If you are a Muslim, be a good muslim. If you are a Christian, be a good christian.:shy:

    I guess i almost let my anger:}--}: get to me and say things i would soon regret.

    Wyheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Wyheguru Ji ki Fateh!
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    << If you are a Muslim, be a good muslim>>

    could you please tell me the defination of good muslim because according
    to some muslims a good muslim should not do close friendship with non muslims.

    i beleive if a religion respect us then we should also respect them but if a religion does not respect us then we should give them befitting reply.
     
  15. max314

    max314
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    Two issues:

    1. - Everyone has a slightly different concept of Sikkhism.

    2. - It's possible that not everyone agrees with Sikkhism.

    According to the tagline, this site exists to encourage people to "think, discuss, share, learn [and] evolve". None of these things is possible without critical thinking, and it is this free thought that is encourage on this website; not propaganda.

    If we start restricting peoples' points of view, the site instantly becomes what the Gurus fought and died to protect: peoples' rights to express and believe what they wish.

    You believe that "God has chosen a religion for us", and whilst I respect that viewpoint, it is only an opinion. Not everyone believes that they are fated to die as they were born.
     
  16. navroopsingh

    navroopsingh
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    It is definitely true that in the Quran that a muslim should not have friend type or any such relationships with a non mislim, but i dont know one muslim who follows that rule. When the guru said if you are a muslim be a good muslim.. he meant that just PROPERLY follow your religion and that he would'nt be trying to convert anyone.

    Certainly it seems Islam has no respect for Sikhi due to the various persecutions undergone under the name of Allahh. Your last paragraph seems more to be a personal view as i know many muslims who are extremely nice, whether they follow Islam fully or not.
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    please take a look what guru nanak dev ji told to the muslims

    सलोकु मः १ ॥
    salok mehlaa 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
    मिहर मसीति सिदकु मुसला हकु हलालु कुराणु ॥
    mihar maseet sidak muslaa hak halaal kuraan.
    Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

    ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥
    सरम सुंनति सीलु रोजा होहु मुसलमाणु ॥
    saram sunat seel rojaa hohu musalmaan.
    Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

    ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥
    करणी काबा सचु पीरु कलमा करम निवाज ॥
    karnee kaabaa sach peer kalmaa karam nivaaj.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

    ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥
    तसबी सा तिसु भावसी नानक रखै लाज ॥१॥
    tasbee saa tis bhaavsee naanak rakhai laaj. ||1||
    Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||

    so according to guru nanak this is the defination of proper muslim not the one written in quran.
     
  18. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    <<defination of proper muslim not the one written in quran>>

    i beg to differ..

    we are not in a position to comment on that...as we have not read Quran like the experts might have....and our notion of what is a muslim is only by observation..and not what is taught in quran....and am sure by the understanding you make out of the shabd, that you are interpreting the quotes of SGGS in a totally different light....this is called Projection....and in theological and philosophical debates...the biggest faults
     
  19. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    sorry but i am unable to understand what you mean.
     
  20. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    your conclusion that Guru nanak refuted the Quran is wrong.

    guru nanak refuted the rituals being followed by qazis and brahmin pandas

    and i am taking the liberty to state that even he would refute the current concept of sikhi if he came to the world today.
     
  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    it is written in quran that every body should embrace islam and accept mohammed as last prophet.guru nanak did not embraced islam neither he accepted mohammed as last prophet.it means guru nanak refuted quran.
     

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