Meditate - How, What, Where and When?

chazSingh · #55 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 21:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Awakeandji
To be honest, We are all as bad as each other, my aversion to meditation is as bad as another who has an attachment to meditation.

It is good to meditate, to think, to debate, I had a similar issue before with the use of the word 'God', Adminji kindly pointed out that I had an aversion to the word, and she was correct. Another wise woman, my wife, has pointed out that I meditate all the time, but to me its not meditating its self analysis, to which she replies that I am losing myself in semantics, which is not true as I am anti semantic!

(ok I hope you have a sense of humour)

I suppose I am averse to pointless parrot fashion chanting, which I see as quite Vedic, in the same way that I used to view 'God' as purely Abrahamic domain, but I have ended up tarring the entire practice of meditation with the Vedic Chanting on top of mountains.

I still strongly feel that Simran is an awareness of Creator rather than just repeating words, but I would concede that we all meditate, whether we like it or not.

Satnaam Harry Ji,

I dont think that anyone here is talking about pointless parrot fashion chanting.

The panch shabads 5 primal sounds emanated from the source God upon starting the creation. everything in the universe vibrates with a unstruck sound current including ourselves...science knows this already:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...ackholesounds/

people can use any mantra (counting down from 20 is an example) to focus on in meditation...doing this daily will sureley still the mind over time to allow you to be more focussed on your daily duties withouth the clutter/doubts/questions that keep arising in the mind.

When we use a certain mantra like Satnaam which is the panch shabad themselves SA AA TA NA MA or Waheguru, we are not just repeating, we are focussing on the Sounds, the vibrations because they are the manifestations of the anhad shabad in the physical reality as recorded by the Guru Ji's because they could Tune into the Shabad (flow of Naam light and sound vibrations from the creator himself).

On top of concentrating and feeling the sound, we try to feel God in us literally, the flow of energy in our bodys, the trust in his existance, the deep love which brings a tear to my eyes...the sadness Bhairag that i sometimes feel inside due to my longing for him.

all of the above becomes Simran...its a feeling you cannot describe...its a joy once experienced you can never turn your back...it becomes a reality and it manifests in your life...

I am only a beginner on this journey and i used to regret that i didnt start earlier in my life...but all my lifes experiences i now understand were there (good and Bad) to bring me to this point right now where i feel intoxicated with my guru's love. It can only be his Grace. We don't do anything...all is him...and we have to believe it....as soon as we believe we are doing things...our Ego takes over, the poison that works against god.

aapae karathaa aapae bhugathaa ||
| He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer
He created the creation so that He could experience himself. We are all him...when we meditate the proper way i.e. simran as described above..It is god doing his own bagti on himself...when our minds can uderstand this truely without a single doubt then the doors are open and we experience the creation as it always should have been with unconditional love for everyone and everything as 'all is god and god is all'.

In the Tenth Gate, is the dwelling of the infinite, unseen Lord.
swier spq Bry jil inrmil gurmuiK mYlu n lwiedw ]2]
saaeir sapath bharae jal niramal guramukh mail n laaeidhaa ||2||
The seven seas are overflowing with the Ambrosial Water; the Gurmukhs are not stained with filth. ||2||

The dssam Duar and 7 chakras are a complete reality in every Human Body. Amrit will start to flow through them all...i have complete faith in this, and my guru ji will ferry me across

harry haller · #56 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 21:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazSingh

Satnaam Harry Ji,

Please read the following from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

Those who meditate single-mindedly on the Naam, and contemplate the Teachings of the Guru

thin kae mukh sadh oujalae thith sachai dharabaar ||

-their faces are forever radiant in the Court of the True Lord.

oue a(n)mrith peevehi sadhaa sadhaa sachai naam piaar ||1||

They drink in the Ambrosial Nectar forever and ever, and they love the True Name. ||1||

bhaaee rae guramukh sadhaa path hoe ||

O Siblings of Destiny, the Gurmukhs are honored forever.

har har sadhaa dhhiaaeeai mal houmai kadtai dhhoe ||1|| rehaao ||

They meditate forever on the Lord, Har, Har, and they wash off the filth of egotism. ||1||Pause||

manamukh naam n jaananee vin naavai path jaae ||

The self-willed manmukhs do not know the Naam. Without the Name, they lose their honor.

this is just one example of hundreds from Guru ji. I can post all Day

Have you tried to do this for a certain amount of Time. In Science they say in-order to disprove something, you have to experience it, and test it for yourself and see it with your own eyes...this also applies to your bagti and devotion....not to just believe in what people say...to test for yourself.

Do it every day for 6 months...every day do ardaas to Waheguru Ji, tell him you have doubts about whether this is the correct way...say to Waheguru Ji that you are tired of the views of everyone and want to know the 'Truth' and gently ask Waheguru ji to come live inside your heart and show you the true way and ask for his support in testing this out.

then do your meditation...every day for six months without fail...and share your experiences with everyone. after 6 months i'm sure you will decide whether this is for you or not

But remember you must feel some thirst for Waheguru ji already in your heart in-order for your motivation to be there. The thirst is Gods Grace. If the thirst is low at the moment...as this into your ardaas requesting it.

Chazji,

If you could post the entire Shabad with the Gurmukhi as well, I will be only too happy to share with you my personal interpretation. Mine will differ from yours

I have to confess that the facets and concepts of Sikhism that I hold dear are more pragmatic, I do not pray, believe in reincarnation, meditate, follow any rituals or ask Waheguru for anything. I follow Hukam to the best of my ability, I try and stay honest and truthful, and I treasure an alert and active mind above everything. I have no thirst for Waheguru, how can I have a thirst for something I do not understand? All I have are the directions of the 11th master that regulate my every day, through these actions I try and find Mukti on a daily basis, I probably read and try understand the wrong bani at the wrong time of day, but I am sure I will get better at the timings and content when Creator feels I am ready.

I have no wish to lose the alertness I have honed from sobriety, although I do debate with the essence of Creator in my head probably about 60% of my time awake. Does that count ?

Best Wishes on your path Veerji, see you in Mukti

harry haller · #57 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 21:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazSingh

Satnaam Harry Ji,

I dont think that anyone here is talking about pointless parrot fashion chanting.

The panch shabads 5 primal sounds emanated from the source God upon starting the creation. everything in the universe vibrates with a unstruck sound current including ourselves...science knows this already:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...ackholesounds/

people can use any mantra (counting down from 20 is an example) to focus on in meditation...doing this daily will sureley still the mind over time to allow you to be more focussed on your daily duties withouth the clutter/doubts/questions that keep arising in the mind.

When we use a certain mantra like Satnaam which is the panch shabad themselves SA AA TA NA MA or Waheguru, we are not just repeating, we are focussing on the Sounds, the vibrations because they are the manifestations of the anhad shabad in the physical reality as recorded by the Guru Ji's because they could Tune into the Shabad (flow of Naam light and sound vibrations from the creator himself).

On top of concentrating and feeling the sound, we try to feel God in us literally, the flow of energy in our bodys, the trust in his existance, the deep love which brings a tear to my eyes...the sadness Bhairag that i sometimes feel inside due to my longing for him.

all of the above becomes Simran...its a feeling you cannot describe...its a joy once experienced you can never turn your back...it becomes a reality and it manifests in your life...

I am only a beginner on this journey and i used to regret that i didnt start earlier in my life...but all my lifes experiences i now understand were there (good and Bad) to bring me to this point right now where i feel intoxicated with my guru's love. It can only be his Grace. We don't do anything...all is him...and we have to believe it....as soon as we believe we are doing things...our Ego takes over, the poison that works against god.

aapae karathaa aapae bhugathaa ||
| He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer
He created the creation so that He could experience himself. We are all him...when we meditate the proper way i.e. simran as described above..It is god doing his own bagti on himself...when our minds can uderstand this truely without a single doubt then the doors are open and we experience the creation as it always should have been with unconditional love for everyone and everything as 'all is god and god is all'.

In the Tenth Gate, is the dwelling of the infinite, unseen Lord.
swier spq Bry jil inrmil gurmuiK mYlu n lwiedw ]2]
saaeir sapath bharae jal niramal guramukh mail n laaeidhaa ||2||
The seven seas are overflowing with the Ambrosial Water; the Gurmukhs are not stained with filth. ||2||

The dssam Duar and 7 chakras are a complete reality in every Human Body. Amrit will start to flow through them all...i have complete faith in this, and my guru ji will ferry me across

Veerji,

If this is meditation, then no, I am not a fan, You may as well be chanting anything that makes a pleasing sound.

However, if you find comfort and pleasure from it, much kudos if it works for you, I would not try and change your point of view, I would not wish the responsibility, it has clearly made a difference to your life.

We are all different, but clearly you are Sikh through and through, and that makes us brothers in arms, I fight with a lance, you with a sword, good, between us we will cover all possibilities, this is what makes sangat complete and strong

chazSingh · #58 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 22:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Chazji,

If you could post the entire Shabad with the Gurmukhi as well, I will be only too happy to share with you my personal interpretation. Mine will differ from yours

I have to confess that the facets and concepts of Sikhism that I hold dear are more pragmatic, I do not pray, believe in reincarnation, meditate, follow any rituals or ask Waheguru for anything. I follow Hukam to the best of my ability, I try and stay honest and truthful, and I treasure an alert and active mind above everything. I have no thirst for Waheguru, how can I have a thirst for something I do not understand? All I have are the directions of the 11th master that regulate my every day, through these actions I try and find Mukti on a daily basis, I probably read and try understand the wrong bani at the wrong time of day, but I am sure I will get better at the timings and content when Creator feels I am ready.

I have no wish to lose the alertness I have honed from sobriety, although I do debate with the essence of Creator in my head probably about 60% of my time awake. Does that count ?

Best Wishes on your path Veerji, see you in Mukti

Satnaam Ji,

Full shabad can be read and contemplated/meditated on from:
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=91

Hukam causes us to breathe, hukam causes us to thirst for water/milk when we are born and feel hunger for the first time... the baby becomes satisfied when it drinks...even though it knows nothing about thirst, knows nothing about the taste of milk, or why it feels it needs something to survive...yet it needs it, has the feeling inside that it requires it...thats the hukam, thats God that resides inside the baby and sustains it.

keep contemplating on God, his creation, keep asking god for the answers...the answers will come from within...you will have a thought...the thought will feel different to every other thought you have...you won't be able to push it to one side because it will feel True from deep in your heart..and that will be the True answer...

you'll know when you feel such an answer..it'll stop you in your tracks....
its hard to explain

chazSingh · #59 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 22:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Veerji,

If this is meditation, then no, I am not a fan, You may as well be chanting anything that makes a pleasing sound.

However, if you find comfort and pleasure from it, much kudos if it works for you, I would not try and change your point of view, I would not wish the responsibility, it has clearly made a difference to your life.

We are all different, but clearly you are Sikh through and through, and that makes us brothers in arms, I fight with a lance, you with a sword, good, between us we will cover all possibilities, this is what makes sangat complete and strong

Satnaam Harry ji,

You are right..we are all brothers in arms...and Sangat is all powerful.
Waheguru Ji will keep you as he keeps you, and will keep me as he feels he needs to keep me... Keep doing your Seva as you are doing... you have inspired me to do more Seva, i dont do enough

God bless all.

harry haller · #60 (**permalink**) 28-Feb-2012, 22:23 PM

keep contemplating on God, his creation, keep asking god for the answers...the answers will come from within...you will have a thought...the thought will feel different to every other thought you have...you won't be able to push it to one side because it will feel True from deep in your heart..and that will be the True answer...

As I said, I ask god for nothing, but its wonderful to note your enthusiasm

harry haller · #61 (**permalink**) 29-Feb-2012, 02:14 AM

ਜਿਨੀ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/37964-meditate-how-what-where-and-when.html

जिनी इक मनि नामु धिआइआ गुरमती वीचारि ॥

Jinī ik man nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā gurmaṯī vīcẖār.

They who with single-mind, contemplate over God's Name and dwell upon Guru's teaching,

ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਸਦ ਉਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥

तिन के मुख सद उजले तितु सचै दरबारि ॥

Ŧin ke mukẖ saḏ ujle ṯiṯ sacẖai ḏarbār.

Their faces are ever bright in that Lord's True Court.

ਓਇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਿਆਰਿ ॥੧॥

ओइ अम्रितु पीवहि सदा सदा सचै नामि पिआरि ॥१॥

O▫e amriṯ pīvėh saḏā saḏā sacẖai nām pi▫ār. ||1||

For ever and aye, they drink nectar and profess love for the True Name.

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

भाई रे गुरमुखि सदा पति होइ ॥

Bẖā▫ī re gurmukẖ saḏā paṯ ho▫e.

O Brother! the Guru-ward ever obtains honour.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਦਾ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਮਲੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਢੈ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

हरि हरि सदा धिआईऐ मलु हउमै कढै धोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Har har saḏā ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai mal ha▫umai kadẖai ḏẖo▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.

They ever meditate on God's Name and wash off the filth of pride. Pause.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਪਤਿ ਜਾਇ ॥

मनमुख नामु न जाणनी विणु नावै पति जाइ ॥

Manmukẖ nām na jāṇnī viṇ nāvai paṯ jā▫e.

The wayward know not the Name and without God's Name they lose their honour.

ਸਬਦੈ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਲਾਗੇ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥

सबदै सादु न आइओ लागे दूजै भाइ ॥

Sabḏai sāḏ na ā▫i▫o lāge ḏūjai bẖā▫e.

They relish not God's Name and are attached with duality.

ਵਿਸਟਾ ਕੇ ਕੀੜੇ ਪਵਹਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਸੇ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥

विसटा के कीड़े पवहि विचि विसटा से विसटा माहि समाइ ॥२॥

vistā ke kīṛe pavėh vicẖ vistā se vistā māhi samā▫e. ||2||

They are the worms of ordure fall in ordure and get absorbed in ordure.

ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਚਲਹਿ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਭਾਇ ॥

तिन का जनमु सफलु है जो चलहि सतगुर भाइ ॥

Ŧin kā janam safal hai jo cẖalėh saṯgur bẖā▫e.

Fruitful is life of those, who walk (live) according to True Guru's will.

ਕੁਲੁ ਉਧਾਰਹਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਧੰਨੁ ਜਣੇਦੀ ਮਾਇ ॥

कुलु उधारहि आपणा धंनु जणेदी माइ ॥

Kul uḏẖārėh āpṇā ḏẖan jaṇeḏī mā▫e.

They save their family and blessed is their mother who bore them.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥

हरि हरि नामु धिआईऐ जिस नउ किरपा करे रजाइ ॥३॥

Har har nām ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai jis na▫o kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||3||

He, whom the Master of will shows favour, repeats the Name of Lord God.

ਜਿਨੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37964

जिनी गुरमुखि नामु धिआइआ विचहु आपु गवाइ ॥

Jinī gurmukẖ nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā vicẖahu āp gavā▫e.

The Guru-wards, who remember God's Name and dispel the pride of self from within.

ਓਇ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੇ ਸਚੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥

ओइ अंदरहु बाहरहु निरमले सचे सचि समाइ ॥

O▫e anḏrahu bāhrahu nirmale sacẖe sacẖ samā▫e.

They are pure from within and without and merge in the Truest of the True.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਏ ਸੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਹਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੪॥੫॥੩੮॥

नानक आए से परवाणु हहि जिन गुरमती हरि धिआइ ॥४॥५॥३८॥

Nānak ā▫e se parvāṇ hėh jin gurmaṯī har ḏẖi▫ā▫e. ||4||5||38||

Nanak, acceptable is the advent of those, who by Guru's instruction contemplate over God.

The aspect of meditation forms only a small part of the overall essence and message contained here, I will provide my own meaning that I would take personally later, it would be great to compare it to yours Chazji

Luckysingh · #62 (**permalink**) 29-Feb-2012, 08:50 AM

Satnaam Waheguru

Thank you Chazji for the above posts.
One of the reasons, I say 'one' and not 'the' that I started this thread was for confirmation that I was doing the right thing.- Although, I always knew and felt it was the right thing, but I questioned why others were not doing this. Secondly, was to see how many members were on this path, and if so, at what stage.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37964

I now, have a very good idea thanks to all the replies. I also have some understanding of why,sadly, some refuse to acknowledge naam simran and meditation.

Maybe one can acknowledge, appreciate and comprehend all existence around one self, when one has taken this path. (-Note, I say 'maybe'), as it feels one can see some transparency after trying whereas others have chosen to simply refuse even the trying part.

Does anyone actually think or believe that the Gurus were never in a meditative state ?
Or, are we going to look for references and define meditative state now ?
I'd rather we don't go tangential with responses here and try to stay with the original topic.- Thanks.

Waheguru
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37964
Sat Kartar

Lucky Singh

Ambarsaria · #63 (**permalink**) 29-Feb-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckysingh

Satnaam Waheguru

I now, have a very good idea thanks to all the replies. I also have some understanding of why,sadly, some refuse to acknowledge naam simran and meditation.

Veer Luckysingh ji where you think I belong. An honest answer is welcome as I do believe you recognize the details that some of us may not.

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.