God, Life and the Spiritual Practice of Surrendering 'Complete Control'

findingmyway · #10 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2011, 05:22 AM

Navdeep ji,
Appreciate the comments. Sometimes darkness is the opposite of a blessing. Darkness can disconnect you from Waheguru by making you feel totally unworthy. That is when the usual coping mechanisms of faith desert a person

*

Ambarsaria · #11 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2011, 06:20 AM

If you are in Western World (or have access Christian TV ministries) you will see this phrase quite commonly in those TV shows,

"Surrender yourself to Jesus"
"Give yourself to Jesus"
"Surrender yourself to the Lord"

I also saw a learned Muslim scholar also extolling the virtues of making your self feel like a Zero so that you may start learning.

According to Sikhism God is in all and everywhere, why you want to enter such states by design so that you be lead to a solution!

I do recognize that in extreme despair mental faculties are looking for straws with out of the box thinking and it is a normal reaction in us.

Quote:

In the article the Rabbi says,

Surrender is the ultimate act of faith. At once a faith in the world around us, the people around us and faith in some Higher Order in the world -- call it God, physics or chance. I call it God.

The highlighted Red is Sikhism.

The first sentence, "Surrender is the ultimate act of faith.", for me in Sikhism this is translated differently. It is the effort to understand which is cornerstone of Sikhism for me.

Thanks spnadmin ji, I missed the above when I first posted and went through the article again. In spite of reading again I still don't like the word surrender but prefer higher and higher understanding.

Otherwise I am cool with his write-up.

Sat Sri Akal.

spnadmin · #12 (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2011, 06:35 AM

Let me quote a paragraph in the article that makes it clear that the author is not talking about surrendering one's will to another human being, a baba or guru, or letting go of coping mechanisms of faith. In fact the opposite is the case.

Quote:

Letting go is a trait I am committed to cultivating. The vulnerability of acknowledging what is already true. That in admitting I don't have much control of anything really, I can let go of the stress and anxiety that block me from experiencing the beauty in life. And that faith is what I really have. A faith in those around me and that even when things are scary and it appears the world is crumbling it rarely stays that way. Our lives and our souls naturally gravitate toward the light. Toward life. Thya h'matim the revival of the dead. The revival of hope. Of possibility. Of redemption.

This is a view that is close enough to make for good interfaith dialog. What are the similarities and differences? I don't see the essay as challenging good sense, piety in a different faith, mental health. It really deserves a second chance.

Guru Angad, Ang 139

ਪਉੜੀ ॥
Pourree ||
Pauree:

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਜਗਤੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਧੰਧੈ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
Thudhh Aapae Jagath Oupaae Kai Thudhh Aapae Dhhandhhai Laaeiaa ||
You Yourself created the world, and You Yourself put it to work.

ਮੋਹ ਠਗਉਲੀ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪਹੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਖੁਆਇਆ ॥
Moh Thagoulee Paae Kai Thudhh Aapahu Jagath Khuaaeiaa ||
Administering the drug of emotional attachment, You Yourself have led the world astray.

ਤਿਸਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਹੈ ਨਹ ਤਿਪਤੈ ਭੁਖਾ ਤਿਹਾਇਆ ॥
Thisanaa Andhar Agan Hai Neh Thipathai Bhukhaa Thihaaeiaa ||
The fire of desire is deep within; unsatisfied, people remain hungry and thirsty.

ਸਹਸਾ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਆਇਆ ਜਾਇਆ ॥
Sehasaa Eihu Sansaar Hai Mar Janmai Aaeiaa Jaaeiaa ||
This world is an illusion; it dies and it is re-born-it comes and it goes in reincarnation.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੋਹੁ ਨ ਤੁਟਈ ਸਭਿ ਥਕੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥
Bin Sathigur Mohu N Thuttee Sabh Thhakae Karam Kamaaeiaa ||
Without the True Guru, emotional attachment is not broken. All have grown weary of performing empty rituals.

ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸੁਖਿ ਰਜਾ ਜਾ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਇਆ ॥
Guramathee Naam Dhhiaaeeai Sukh Rajaa Jaa Thudhh Bhaaeiaa ||
Those who follow the Guru's Teachings meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Filled with a joyful peace, they surrender to Your Will.

ਕੁਲੁ ਉਧਾਰੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਧੰਨੁ ਜਣੇਦੀ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
Kul Oudhhaarae Aapanaa Dhhann Janaedhee Maaeiaa |
They save their families and ancestors; blessed are the mothers who gave birth to them.

ਸੋਭਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
Sobhaa Surath Suhaavanee Jin Har Saethee Chith Laaeiaa ||2||
Beautiful and sublime is the glory and the understanding of those who focus their consciousness on the Lord. ||2||

Navdeep88 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-Mar-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findingmyway

Navdeep ji,
Appreciate the comments. Sometimes darkness is the opposite of a blessing. Darkness can disconnect you from Waheguru by making you feel totally unworthy. That is when the usual coping mechanisms of faith desert a person

Findingmyway ji,

I think at times like that, a person needs to become their own best friend. Whether we land in that position of unworthiness by making a mistake or just giving up because of lack of discipline etc (Im speaking about my experience), we need to find that voice, that light, however dim (to guide us forth). The worst thing we can do is beat ourselves up because that gets nowhere.
And I dont think faith can desert a person without Waheguru's hukum, maybe these are the tests... At the low points, a person has to gather whatever small amount of courage they can, and move forth. As Rumi would say, water always travels to the lowlands...
I hope that helps Jasleen Ji.

Astroboy · #14 (**permalink**) 18-Mar-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spnadmin

Jasleenji.

I am not sue that we do "go from broken to breakthrough" by trying or through personal will. It could be that 'normally' our defenses of ego manage to keep light and dark separate. When those defenses collapse, for some who are given that grace, that's when light jyote rushes in and fills the darkness. It is also my suspicion that all are given that grace, but only some are 'weak' enough to accept it.

@ namjap ji How do you know that feeling broken is not the greater illusion?

Very spiritual people are often believed to be either eccentric or frankly psychotic because these defenses of the rational ego no longer work or are no longer important. Once through the experience of being broken and then repaired, surrender does not frighten them and they are able to experience easily.

I am very sure our Gurus did not teach us to become eccentric or psychotic in anyway. Instead they have made us use common sense when trying to find our way out of this illusionary dark pit.

That means we are to just be without trying too hard to post-mortem our make up. We can always categorize that we are made up of mind, matter and spirit. These are just simple mind-mapping concepts. There is no way to tell which part of the body Soul lives. Gurbani didn't stress the chakras or the seat of the soul.

We are as we are, every part of us is important. Feeling down and depressed is part and parcel of life.

Page 277 Gauri Sukhmani M.5
ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਬਪੁਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥
आगिआकारी बपुरा जीउ ॥
Āgi▫ākārī bapurā jī▫o.
The helpless beings are subject to His Command.

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਫੁਨਿ ਥੀਉ ॥
जो तिसु भावै सोई फुनि थीउ ॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so▫ī fun thī▫o.
That which pleases Him, ultimately comes to pass.

ਕਬਹੂ ਊਚ ਨੀਚ ਮਹਿ ਬਸੈ ॥
कबहू ऊच नीच महि बसै ॥
Kabhū ūcẖ nīcẖ mėh basai.
Sometimes, they abide in exaltation; sometimes, they are depressed.

ਕਬਹੂ ਸੋਗ ਹਰਖ ਰੰਗਿ ਹਸੈ ॥
कबहू सोग हरख रंगि हसै ॥
Kabhū sog harakẖ rang hasai.
Sometimes, they are sad, and sometimes they laugh with joy and delight.