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Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 11-Jun-2007, 22:38 PM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

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Quote:
I don't think KDS1980 meant that Islam is the true religion, he was asking a question to Jugdeep as he/she feels that Islam is the true word of God. KDS1980 is giving the chance for Jugdeep to elaborate on why he/she feels that way. Whats wrong in that?
mkaur ji you are absolutely right.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 11-Jun-2007, 23:17 PM
Shernee's Avatar Shernee Shernee is offline
 
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

I would thing twice about the username "Jugdeep" and believing what he wrote.

This is why:

"
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and the Truth
What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...
Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman)

Question
:
Are Muslims permitted to lie?


Summary Answer
:
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should be truthful to each other.
There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. One of those circumstances is to gain the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.


The Qur'an:
Sura (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Sura (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."
Sura (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Sura (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"
Sura (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.


From the Hadith:


Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (52:271) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/5724-call-muslims-seduce-sikh-girls-into.html

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746) - "Lying is permissible when there is a legitimate desired end. And the legitimate desired end may be a personal one."



Additional Notes:

Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are:

Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed. (See Sura (9:3) - ("...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters...")

Another example is when Muhammad tricked the leader of an opposing tribe with whom he was not at war to leave his town on the pretext of meeting with him at Medina. Usayr ibn Zarim traveled with thirty men who were unarmed because of Muhammad's guarantee of safety. They were easily massacred by the prophet's Muslim assassins.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724

The 9/11 hijackers practiced deception by going into bars and drinking alcohol, thus throwing off potential suspicion that they were fundamentalists plotting jihad. This effort worked so well, in fact, that even weeks after 9/11, John Walsh, the host of a popular American television show, said that their bar trips were evidence of 'hypocrisy.'

The transmission from Flight 93 records the hijackers telling their doomed passengers that there is "a a bomb on board" but that everyone will "be safe" as long as "their demands are met." Obviously none of these things were true, but these men, who were so intensely devoted to Islam that they were willing to "slay and be slain for the cause of Allah" (as the Qur'an puts it) saw nothing wrong with employing Taqiyya in order to facilitate their mission of mass murder.

The near absence of Qur'anic verse and reliable Hadith that encourage truthfulness is somewhat surprising, given that many Muslims are convinced that their religion teaches honesty. In fact, it is because of this ingrained belief that most Muslims are quite honest.

Finally, the circumstances by which Muhammad allowed a believer to lie are limited to those that either advance the cause of Islam or enable a Muslim to avoid harm to his well-being (and presumably that of other Muslims as well). Although this should be kept very much in mind when dealing with matters of global security, such as Iran's nuclear intentions, it is not grounds for assuming that the Muslim one might personally encounter on the street or in the workplace is any less honest than anyone else.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 00:51 AM
FiveLovedOnes's Avatar FiveLovedOnes FiveLovedOnes is offline
 
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

Just look at this girl who poses herself as gurusikhni n supporting islam by citing lines from Gurubani.Here Allah refer to Waheguru.Answer is so simple n she brought out wrong meaning out of it.So simple is for the sikh girls to slip to favor Islam by one wrong intrepretation n even if thousands of examples of great sikhs n Gurus n their sacrifices r presented before them they will still not favor sikhs.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724


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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 01:36 AM
Shernee's Avatar Shernee Shernee is offline
 
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

Lets not argue amongst oursleves. If you dont realise this already, this what the muslims wants us to do.

Lets us all GURU DEH SIKHS STAY UNITED


And a message to you "jagdeep", this is a "SIKHI" site and if you want to discuss Sikhi and Gurbani and you are most welcome.

BUT if you here trying to incite hate or trying to convert Guru deh Sikhs then you are on the wrong website.


We understand why you are doing this. Its because thats what your Koran teaches you to do which is quite a sad affair to say the least.


I am forever grateful that my karma was such that it brought me to Gurbani - our wonderful Gur Sikhi.

I pray humbly that all in this world may gain Guru Ki Mat - Gurmat Naam that only our wonderful and beautiful Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji can achieve.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724


Sacha patshah Waheguru Akal purkah benti kareh -Please give us all especially "jagdeep" Gurmat Naam.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 02:07 AM
FiveLovedOnes's Avatar FiveLovedOnes FiveLovedOnes is offline
 
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Smile re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

Fools n evils forces don't understand religion.They r blind as Gurubani itself says:

"Hindu andaa musalmaan Kaana Enha donvah tu Gyani syana"

Sikhs faced heavy loss becoz they ignored Guru's words n trusted hindus.Guru Gobind Singh never trusted Hindu kings n mugal ruler at anytime during his whole life but sikhs didn't listen to Guru n so faced heavy loss during 1984 roits n blue star operation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724

Non-religious people don't understand polite words n cool approach.They understand only one language i.e. sword language,battles n nothing more.
I still don't understand why sikhs r so polite towards evils even today even when we r facing heavy losses from them.
Even Guru gobind Singh picked weapons when all means failed.Sikhs must prepare themselves for everything.This is Sikhi site n no non-sikhi stuff is allowed here.

"Pratham bhaghoti Simar keh Guru Nanak Lai dehaiey"


First Recognise n bow before SWORD as Guru n then remember Guru Nanak n others.
Understand this n all will be clear to U all readers why Guru Ji has taken tough on evils forces n considered Sword as first rememberance during Ardas n this is what allowed sikhs to wipe evils forces out so that they cannot harm others.Same will hold true now n in future.Mind it.

Sat Shri Akal.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 02:33 AM
simpy's Avatar simpy simpy is offline
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

Please respect all. read the forum rules carefully once again, if you have any questions.

another humble request to all, please post correct gurbani, if you are posting. Thanks in advance.

Bhaghoti means true bhagat
Gurbani has this word many times used as such.


AMqir kptu BgauqI khwey]



BgauqI BgvMq Bgiq kw rMgu ]
sgl iqAwgY dust kw sMgu ]
mn qy ibnsY sglw Brmu ]
kir pUjY sgl pwrbRhmu ]
swDsMig pwpw mlu KovY ]
iqsu BgauqI kI miq aUqm hovY ]
BgvMq kI thl krY inq nIiq ]
mnu qnu ArpY ibsn prIiq ]
hir ky crn ihrdY bswvY ]
nwnk AYsw BgauqI BgvMq kau pwvY ].......


also Gurbani goes for the Shabad mentioned by FiveLovedOnes Ji like the following-

Awju nwmy bITlu dyiKAw mUrK ko smJwaU ry ] rhwau ]
pWfy qumrI gwieqRI loDy kw Kyqu KwqI QI ]
lY kir Tygw tgrI qorI lWgq lWgq jwqI QI ]1]
pWfy qumrw mhwdyau Dauly bld ciVAw Awvqu dyiKAw Qw ]
modI ky Gr Kwxw pwkw vw kw lVkw mwirAw Qw ]2]
pWfy qumrw rwmcMdu so BI Awvqu dyiKAw Qw ]
rwvn syqI srbr hoeI Gr kI joie gvweI QI ]3]
ihMdU AMn@w qurkU kwxw ]
duhW qy igAwnI isAwxw ]
ihMdU pUjY dyhurw muslmwxu msIiq ]
nwmy soeI syivAw jh dyhurw n msIiq ]
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724







It says God's presence is not limited to the places of worship. Examples are taken from that time.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724

Please respect all.

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 04:19 AM
sikhpreet's Avatar sikhpreet sikhpreet is offline
 
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There is one more link

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)

source Muslim convert to Sikh :: Ex-muslim :: Muslim 2 Sikh :: Muslim Converts To Sikhism
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724

I am not trying to hurt anyone its just a fact. Just trying to explore. I am not sure is it some what around the topic. But seems relates some how.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724

Great reply shows to what extent they are allowed to lie according to kuraan
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.

Kitman

I dint know about this nice one.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 04:26 AM
FiveLovedOnes's Avatar FiveLovedOnes FiveLovedOnes is offline
 
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Smile

I have a CD named "Nitnam" by Bhai Daya Singh Ji from Australia n they have recited ardas with its meaning in English.Clearly he said that Bhaghoti means Sword Guru.Same word can have different meaning in different situations.In Ardas it means a Sword Guru n nothing else.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
Note this.No further arguments please.If have doubt consult a sikh scholar.
Sat Shri Akal.


Clearly it shows how a holy book can mislead masses of people n how corrupt the teachings of Koran r.It is teaching people to lie for their own benefit.peak of everything.In fact hazraat mohamaad was not a prophet at all.If he were he wouldnot have added such things in holy book.Ugly teachings alone can produce evils n nothing more.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724


Thanks my friend.
Sat Shri Akal.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 06:52 AM
simpy's Avatar simpy simpy is offline
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

the meaning of Bhagoti cannot be misleading from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth sahib Ji, not for a True Sikh.

iknhI igRhu qij vx KMif pwieAw ]
iknhI moin AauDUqu sdwieAw ]
koeI khqau Anµin BgauqI ]
moih dIn hir hir Et lIqI ]
If a Sikh doesn't believe in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, what me neech can say about it. This is our relation with Guru Ji.....

Bhai Gurdas Ji also used this word in the same contexct:
ieh vwr BgauqI mhW punIqy]
ijs aucriq aupjiq prqIqy]
jo ies vwr soN pRym lgwvY]
soeI mn bWiCq Pl pwvY]
imtihN sgl duK duMd klysw]
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
Pun pRgtY bhu suK prvysw]
jo ins bwsur rtihN ieh vwry]
so phuMcy Dur hir drbwry]
ieh vwr BgauqI smwpiq kInI]
qb Gt ibidAw kI sB ibiD cInI]
ieau siqgur swihb Bey idAwlw]
qb CUt gey sB hI jMjwlw]
kir ikrpw pRB hir igrDwry]
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5724
aih pkiV bWh Baujl soN qwry]
ieauN kir hY gurdws pukwrw]
hy siqguru muih lyhu aubwrw ]

one can believe or doubt... waheguru mehar karan......

that's all me neech can say.

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness....
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 12-Jun-2007, 07:30 AM
ISDhillon's Avatar ISDhillon ISDhillon is offline
 
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re: Call To Muslims To Seduce Sikh Girls Into Islam

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikhpreet View Post
There is one more link

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)

source Muslim convert to Sikh :: Ex-muslim :: Muslim 2 Sikh :: Muslim Converts To Sikhism

I am not trying to hurt anyone its just a fact. Just trying to explore. I am not sure is it some what around the topic. But seems relates some how.

Great reply shows to what extent they are allowed to lie according to kuraan
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.

Kitman

I dint know about this nice one.
I never knew about the taqiyaa-kitman business, the more I read about islam the more I am replused by it, I think muslims should look to the example of sheikh fareed if they are unwilling to listen to sikhs.
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