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Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

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  #316 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 05:42 AM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

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  #317 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 10:15 AM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

seekr3g ji

You are asking a really interesting question. I understand it in 2 ways. But the intriguing way is in the sense that somewhere, someone holds out that possibility that we can control what we dream, but we don't realize it. And so frustration sets in. You question could be almost is poetic. I wonder what the answer is.
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  #318 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 11:38 AM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

I replied to your sugestion that one can recite naam in dream. Now you arte telling me that you dont know how it can be done? So who ever wrote in that shabad maybe also dont know how it can be done. May be he wrote it so the sloke in poem sound good.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/4981-sikh-girls-confused-lot-parents-blame.html
But there is a way. I can only explain if some one send me email. It is so simple it would look funny. We have no control on what is in our food, also we cant control whats in the air we breath. But we can control our thoughts And some dreams.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4981
truth3k@gmail.com
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  #319 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 11:58 AM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

I do not make fun of any one. I very highly respect female. A female carried me for 9 months other cared me as sister and now my wife is caring me with out question. I am 65 year old male. I am into spirituality not religion.
It is not the question of Sikhs. This disease is of men all over. WE men are so self centered that we done know what we are doing. It was same for the Christian women. It is economic situation. In India or third world countries women are depended on men. Even here in USA Canada some women still are depended on men too. It is going to be this way until women get educated and get into work force and earn their living. Only then things will change. Women have to support other women. Men are not going to help, it is not in their best interest. Many religious men still they are the intelligent specie on this earth. And they think that women done have brain and they cant think. They will quote from Granth that it is in bani that women should be respected but living is other thing. I am not anti Sikh as many may think. Just think why 6th guru kept girl friend Kaulan. Why the 7th had four wives (some say he had 7). And why guru Gobind Singh had 3? Even many ordinary men had 2 wives. Can a woman have 2 or more husband?
One of the prominent Sikh Jathedar’s daughter was killed for marring the sikh who was not amrat dari. Nothing is done about it by the law. Most guys say it is not in Sikhism. But if all those men are Sikhs then what people will thing? We men have to clean our act and change our thinking. Email: truth3k@gmail.com
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  #320 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 15:34 PM
Archived_Member5's Avatar Archived_Member5 Archived_Member5 is offline
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

They will quote from Granth that it is in bani that women should be respected but living is other thing. I am not anti Sikh as many may think. Just think why 6th guru kept girl friend Kaulan. Why the 7th had four wives (some say he had 7). And why guru Gobind Singh had 3? Even many ordinary men had 2 wives. Can a woman have 2 or more husband?


In each case you cite of male dominance, each subsequent wife to be knew of his marital status yet pursued and procured him regardless, abetted by their benefactors who have ulterior motives to disarm and ruin the standing of the same. Rich, influential or beautiful men are always sought out for power by affiliation. It is a double edged sword you cite here. So women have independence, financially and politically, what do they do with this independence but seek a companion, a man and partner to live and love.

The cycle repeats itself. Independence does not coexist in loving relationships, for they are built upon mutual respect and support. It is all nonsense. Independence is accountability and responsibility for one’s own actions. What they seek is to be free in Spirit, falling short of this they pursue independence only to be as remiss, deficient and in need as they were to begin with. The only women worthy of consideration are they who are strong willed and able to live, love and respect all their family and peer group as they would be treated in kind.

Sikh girls who complained of parental oppression or curbing of their freedom tend to find the seeds of insolence they have planted return and their own chosen loves turn on them for the same reason. These are the laws of karma. The original tale, where there exists a successful prophet, man or entity, the lower ranks of women invariably swarm about him, seduce him until he is quite overcome and ruined, to be controlled and influenced by these women’s menfolk, a route to power as it were. The Clinton fiasco is a milestone in stray women used as missives to ruin and disempower great successful men.

Good women poorly treated, exploited and suppressed rarely complain, any such measures implemented for their protection is invaribly abused and exploited by the very factors the sanctum of the good were to be protected from. Sods law.

Politics, whether family, social, media, or business are webs of deception and bear little relation to actuality or truth...

***
It would appear it forward to note each time God descends whether in male or female form, the paap is close at hand and in proximity to profit and benefit from the love and power aroused by the same, whether are noble Sikh Guru’s as mentioned before, or Jesus and Marand Magdalene, Mohammed and his many concubines, none are spared this predetermined hypocritical misfortune..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4981

It is mans task to detach himself from the sin that stalks and tempts his each step and manoeuvre, spinning political intrigue in a web of treachery, lies, deceit and sorceried witchcraft with diplomacy and minimal chaos or upheaval.. It is evident about us for those who have eyes, sense and vision to see. ***

Waheguru Ji ...
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  #321 (permalink)  
Old 23-Feb-2009, 17:58 PM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

aad0002 ji,

Let me convey my apologies for barging in at a later stage and expressing my views ( unqualified views). I also admit that I am not as learned and as full of wisdom as some of the members here are.
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  #322 (permalink)  
Old 26-Feb-2009, 18:07 PM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

Quote:
. I am not anti Sikh as many may think. Just think why 6th guru kept girl friend Kaulan
Seeker ji I am surprised by your comments Just because Guru Hargobind ji helped a woman that does mean he was his Girlfriend

Mata Kaulan - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Mata Kaulan was a women who was a free spirit and wanted to explore her surroundings. She had been adopted by a Muslim priest called Rustam Khan. He was based in Lahore, Pakistan. Qazi Rustam Khan had bought her from her parents while she was a child. It is possible that her parents were Hindus. The Qazi gave her the education of Islam and sent her to Saint Mian Mir for higher schooling.


Saint Mian Mir was a Sufi Saint. He had no prejudice against any religion. He had a very deep love with Guru Nanak's Institution. It was usual for him to go to Amritsar to meet the Guru Arjan Dev ji. Whenever the Guru visited Lahore, he never went back without seeing Saint Mian Mir. Due to these meetings, Saint Mian Mir knew a large number of Guru's verses by heart which he used to quote to his disciples.


Bibi Kaulan also remembered some of the verses by heart which she used to recite herself as she found them very touching. Her attachment to the Guru's institution increased further when she saw the Guru and the Sikhs came from Amritsar to Lahore at the time of the plague epidemic and nursed the patients with their own hands. The dedication of the Sikhs to serve God was something that impressed Kaulan Ji as she too was a disciple of the true Guru.

One day, Qazi Rustam Khan heard Bibi Kaulan reciting Guru Nanak's verses at home.

He rebuked her and said "Do not recite these verses of the infidels in the future."

Bibi Kaulan Said, "Dear father! Saint Mian Mir bows in all humility to the man you call an infidel and thinks it a privelege to seat him by his side. It is unbecoming to call the man an infidel whom the saint hold in such esteem."

The qazi gave a sound thrashing to Bibi Kaulan on hearing the praise of the Gurus from her and said, "I do not want that you recite the verses of these infidels even unintentionally."'

Between her sobs Bibi Kaulan said, "You may beat me to death but I cannot live without reciting these verses."

Qazi Rustam Khan went and asked other Qazis, "Kaulan persists with reciting the verses of the infidels inspite of my beating. What remedy should be adopted?"

They said, "It is a great sin for the Momins (believers of Islam) to praise the infidels and recite their word. Kaulan should be beheaded for this sin."


When Saint Mian Mir heard about the decree of beheading of Bibi Kaulan, he sent her to the Guru's institution at Amritsar through Abdul Yaar Shah where the homeless were protected. Guru Hargobind made arrangement for separate accommodation for Bibi Kaulan. She had no fear at Amritsar of being killed by the order of the Qazis.


Guru Hargobind took over the role of spiritual guide and counselor from Mian Mir. Under his guidance, Kaulan learned to meditate and sing the teachings songs of the Sikhs. Guru Hargobind instructed that a separate building be built for her as living quarters, and told her not to worry. She could spend her time as she pleased. In her home in Lahore, Kaulan spent hours in deep meditation and prayer. In her new home in the Guru’s court, she continued her routine of study and meditation. It is said that when Guru Hargobind saw her continual dependence on the Divine, he was deeply pleased with Kaulan’s devotion. And in order to protect that devotion, to give it shelter so it could flourish, he took care of her completely.


Three years after the completion of the tank in Amritsar, Kaulan became ill. Ever her Protector, Guru Hargobind came to see her. She was so weak, she could hardly speak. Guru Hargobind could see that she had only another day to live – another 24 hours. As she lay there, weak in body, with little voice, he took her through the experience of her life. How lucky she was, it is reported he said, that she left the company of people who had no sense to see the Divine. How fortunate that she had come into the company of the Guru and the Sikhs to meditate and pray. With his compassion, he guided her to assess her life and see that there was no reason to feel pain about leaving her family – but only joy at how her life had been transformed.


Then, he began to give her spiritual instructions that would guide her through the last 24 hours of her life. He directed her to keep meditating and reflecting on the Akal Moorat – on the deathless spirit that lived within her. Death could not touch her spirit, her awareness – it was only an illusion. For the next 24 hours, the Guru instructed, she should do nothing but meditate on the Creator, and stay present with that Deathless Awareness inside of herself. He promised that he would come at the moment of her departure.


Twenty-four hours later, as he had promised, Guru Hargobind returned to Kaulan’s side. Macauliffe’s account of Kaulan’s death is too moving re-write. So let me just share with you what he wrote.


“The Guru proceeded to Kaulan’s apartments and addressed her consolatory words. ‘Be ready. Prepare thyself. Thine hour hath come. Dismiss all consideration for thy body and fix thine attention on God, who is unborn and imperishable. The world is unreal and only shineth with His light. The soul is pure, real, conscious, happy. As long as man is proud of his body he is subject to birth and death. But when he hath obtained divine knowledge and passed beyond the bounds of love and hate, then he obtaineth deliverance.’


When Kaulan, after meditating on the Guru’s instruction, again opened her eyes, she addressed her last words to the Guru. ‘I thank thee! I thank thee! O patron of the homeless that I found shelter in thee. Thou didst in a moment confer on me the position which Jogis for years vainly strive to attain. Thou didst dispel the ignorance which hung over my millions of births like an inveterate disease.’ She then fixed her attention on God, repeated ‘Waheguru,’ and heaving her last breath departed to the heaven of her aspirations. The Guru ordered her maids and manservant to prepare her for the last rites. Her maids bathed her and clothed her in a shroud and costly shawl. While the minstrel sang the Guru’s hymns, her body was removed to the garden attached to her dwelling and there cremated. The Sohila was read and prayers offered for the repose of her soul.” (2)


To immortalize the memory of Bibi Kaulan's resolve to remain firm on her words, the Guru constructed a pool named Kaulsar in 1627 A.D. Bibi Kaulan died at Kartarpur in 1630 A.D.
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Old 26-Feb-2009, 19:19 PM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

balli ji

I hope you don't think my words were criticism. I was trying to share some information that you may have missed. Apologies to you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by balli View Post
aad0002 ji,

Let me convey my apologies for barging in at a later stage and expressing my views ( unqualified views). I also admit that I am not as learned and as full of wisdom as some of the members here are.
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  #324 (permalink)  
Old 27-Feb-2009, 22:14 PM
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Re: Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

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Can you read the book Parsng of 6th patshahi. This book’s introduction is done by one of the jathedar of the gurdwara. There you can see the facts.

You say that a muslim priest has bought her from hindu family. But you are not sure if he bought it from hindu or not.You said posiable that they were hindu. In those days muslim did not buy any girl from hindus,unless you can show that they did in any other case. They just took the girls from hindus. Then did not took them to educate then and took them as their daughters. They only took them for only one purpose that was for sex. Then and now muslim are against the education of girls. You can see what is happning in Afghanistan and under sharia law girls cant go to school.
Lest say he did why would he send her to Saint Mia mir. What education she got from Mia Mir? There is no mention.. You said Rustam Khan was Kazi. Kazi know all about Islam why would he send her to Saint. Looks like all she learnd was Nanak’s sloks nothing about other thing or Islam. Dose not make sense.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4981
This Kazi consulted other kazis and they recommended that she be killed. The same kazi was against her for reciting Kazi reciting the Nanak’s sloks and he wanted to save her? And he sent her to Guru for her protection. Can one Kazi go against othe Kazis?Do you think that is what really happened? Not is a million years.
The Guru made separate accommodation for HER. Whay do you think Guru did that for the muslim girl? Why was she so impotent that she had to stay in separate place? You did not see any connection here?. Guru Hargond was use to go with Jahangir for hunting and other entertainment to Kashmir and other places. What you think it was going on there? Spiritual Guru go on hunting, killing for his enjoyment? If you still don’t see any thing here then No one can help you my friend. It was for the muslim to go hunting not for Nanak’s house leader to go killing any animal for the pleasure.
There is gurdwara made in the nbame of Kaulan. Why is that? Were she saint at other gurus that there should be gurdwara in her name?

These kind of thing are make black mark on great religion. We must not believe the lies people spread for their own benefit. We have to be very vigilant that no one defame this religion. Look at other big religions these kind of stories are make them laughing stock of the world. Do you want the sikh religion to be in same category?

I am curious why no one picked up what I said about the son of Guru hargobind’s 4 marriages. What was the reason for Guru Gobind’s 3 marriages? There is A reason why he got married more then once.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=4981
Maybe some one can tell us why?
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