Originally Posted by: Arvind
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Dear Kiran,

When a social issue is raised, it is not due to Aman/our 'Holier than Thou' attitude. We all are here to share our views. After carefully scrutinizing root cause, work out solutions in our own family. Ultimately we all families make a bigger society.

Bhull Chukk Maaf ji.

Originally Posted by: luthra_sumeet
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To just add to what has been said uptill now , its true that many Sikhs today are doing what as per Sikhi is not correct . in india Sikhs are characterised to be very heavy Drinkers of alcohol. trimming of hair/beard is also common, many people doesnt understand gurbani and are merely saying stories to cover their ignorance . there was a time when all this disturbed me a lot but not now. Kind of , take it like a parcel of life.

when i think about i dont think that just some Sikhs born outside india are alone confused as has been said, many Sikhs born and brought up in india are also very confused/ignorant of what their religion has to offer them. but then we have to understand that Sikhi itself is not very easy to follow.(bhikam marag chalana). also i believe ( though i dont have any statistical evidence here ) that all the religions in world today are witnessing this over and its not just is Sikhi.I am not saying about population of religion here , mind u ,but the believe in one's religion and fully adhering to it. In Sikhi its very palpable as its evident from a Sikh/sikhni's saroop (which is the first step to Sikhi but some have made it the last) itself but in many others no one can say if they are true christian/muslim/hindu.

its convenient to point a finger at our parents , but do remmber they too can come back and say same to us that there parents did the same to them. Guru sadka, i firmly believe we would tide over the diificult time.Just each one of us have to keep faith in Guru and God and try to be ambassadors of Sikhi in ur own place.

-Sumeet

Originally Posted by: Khalsa_Starr
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Quoted Post by Kiran Sidhu
Aman Singh,

...I didn't really like you putting down the western Sikh Community to be honest. I know children of this generation are confused, no doubt in that. But seems to me, I sense that the only reason you are all wound up is that due to the fact that ur a Sikh woman who isn't maybe allowed "to party" or "to drink"...



?? What are you saying? Aman should be jealous because he is missing out on the so called "pleasures of the world"? Why not try throw in a idea instead of "pointing a finger" or passing the blame.

I think a good place to start is the gurdwara and teaching the parents about Sikhi.

Originally Posted by: truthseeker
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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

I have been quiet reluctant to say anything about this issue.. because my thoughts are all over the place. Yes... like many have already said, i think it is partially at the fault of the parents for not teaching the fundimental roots and history of Sikhism to their children. But then it is at the responsibility of the children to make that effort as well. This is where i use my own personal example. Like i have said b4... my father was a catholic and my mother a Sikh.. soo as a child i went to a Catholic school-still do- and i would attend the gurdwara once in a while with my mother. but for the most part i really didnt kno anything about any religion. I never ever really cared about the whole thing, and i dont even think that my parents really even cared as to whether i learnt either religion. they just used to say " she can choose when she is older" and soo then about 5 years later.. i decided that i would learn about Sikhism on my own... and see where it takes me. and now we are here in the present and im Amritdharee... but definalty still learning everyday..

Anyways the point... i think that if it is in Guru Ji's hukam.. then that child will find there way to Him.. no matter what the odds may be, with Guru Ji's Kirpa.. anything and everything can happen.

just my 2 cents
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

In many cultures, the female has a double set of standards to live by, and it makes it difficult to move around in. Why do males have an easier time? Cause they are often the ones running everything.

little off topic, however it is something i notice.

Dear Truth seeker ji

The is exactly what i can belive and understand about the issue , very well said


Jatinder Singh

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PrIdw kwl^ØI ijnI n rwivAw DaulI rwvY koie ]

I too have realized this too Khalsa starr ji, in many other cultures, women are the ones expected to stay home, take care of the kids, clean the house and cook food. And due to traditions or steriotypes or what ever... it has been very hard for women to break free from it was well. But many women have taen a stand against this and thankfully things are changing... at least in some places.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

The parents are not always the bad ones - the gurdwara is also a place were some bad habits can be picked up. Something to think about, the leaders also fit into this picutre.

Sat Sri Akal Everybody,

I am new to Sikh Philosophy and this is my first post. I am curious to learn Sikhism, I have been to this site quite often and found most of the post very informative and interesting to read.

I hope to learn more from all of you.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge

Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh

Although you bring an interesting view of the "litmus test". I use this same theory, except in a different way. The Litmus test (Same thing I call it too ) works the other way around in my views. For everytime a religion or group of people have to go through a hard phase, its the strong ones, the believers that stand up and die, while the cowards remain alive and run. Some of these cowards run and change thier lifestyle (convert) and others just run away, but try to keep their weak viewpoint of their religion. Hence, when a hard phase comes about, its the ACTUAL religious people that die, and the weak ones that live on and reproduce. Look at all the Sikh wars, its the Khalsay that actually knew about Sikhi were the ones that died...and its the monay who ran and cut their hair to blend in, that survived yet tried to keep the title of "a Sikh". Hence, the litmus test works in reverse for all religions and wipes out the ones who are more staunch and strong about their views.

This applies to race also, for when slavery was around, the strong blacks fought against and died, the weaker ones being the ones who never fought and just obeyed, and told their children that the white man will always rule them. These were the people that reproduced and told their children the white man will always rule and you will never win, so just obey. Litmus test excluded the strong ones, and the weak ones continued the legacy.

The state of Christianity is almost a joke now, for Christians lost the battle to secularization. Like the Sikhs, the Christians won and fought many battles and persecution, but are losing to secularization. Islam, one of the strongest religoins, that people say many convert too...is also on the verge of starting to lose to secularization.

Sikhs can win many battles...but I fear, that no religion will ever win the battle against secularization to the dominant culture.

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Music is the air I breathe
The prayer I leave
Rippin' in the atmosphere
Up there in the breeze