Can Sikhs Go Out with People That Are Not of Their Race or Religion?

Dawnnymph · #1 (**permalink**) 20-Apr-2005, 00:42 AM

I am American and my boyfriend is a sikh, and he told me that your are not supposed to, or his mom is like that...so is that the way its supposed to be?
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Arvind · #2 (**permalink**) 20-Apr-2005, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnnymph

I am American and my boyfriend is a sikh, and he told me that your are not supposed to, or his mom is like that...so is that the way its supposed to be?

Dear friend,

Sikhism says - Manas ki jaat sabey eke pehchanbo. This means - Consider Mankind as a single race.

Unfortunately, whoever said those words to you havent understood this basic principle of Sikhism then.

Personally, I keep away from people with habits of smoking etc. as Sikhs are supposed to stay away from intoxicants. And we know, company reflects an individual person too.

Hope this helps.

Regards.

Sher Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 20-Apr-2005, 05:16 AM

As i have been taught over and over, Sikhism is 100% against dating. We are supposed to have one person in our life, and thats a wife. Dating is out of the question. While dating, many people have been through the stages of hugging, kissing, moslty intimacy. Sikhi says to control our Kaam, or sexual desire, thus if we date it increases our Kaam which we need to control. In brief, Sikhism is against dating.

Arvind · #4 (**permalink**) 20-Apr-2005, 21:23 PM

Sher veer,

Just to note, the query is about 'going out with people (non-sikhs)', not about dating.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/3091-can-sikhs-go-out-people-not.html

Regards.

ravisingh · #5 (**permalink**) 21-Apr-2005, 02:43 AM

Personally, I do not see an issue in people of different faiths dating. There certainly is not any direct guidance as such from the sikh rehat or the scriptures. Often with Sikhism punjabi culture is seen as interwined with the religion --of course this is completely incorrect. What your boyfriend is describing is a sort of racism that is unfortunately rampant among punjabis
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3091

On the other hand, being a minority culture, there is always a tendency to want to protect it. Such protectionism is common among many minority cultural groups. In my humble opinion, this does not excuse it but I hope that it at least serves as an explanation. In most cases there will be an immense social stigma for the child not to date outside of the community (or to date at all). The fact that traditionally parents chose mates for their children is also partly to blame for the bias against dating. This is of course terribly old fashioned (it is very rare for parents to choose their child's mate these days) however, again, I hope that it serves as a sort of explanation for where he may be coming from.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3091

take care,

Ravi Singh

Sher Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 21-Apr-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arvind

Sher veer,

Just to note, the query is about 'going out with people (non-sikhs)', not about dating.

Regards.

going out can/does mean dating as well. There are 2 "going out's". 1 being "hey mom, im going out to the movie" and the other is, "im going out with my bf/gf". what i was trying to state was the 2nd "going out".

UnstoppableSingh · #7 (**permalink**) 21-Apr-2005, 09:54 AM

Most Asian cultures (Japanese, Chinese, Indian and so on) are against dating. Note i'm only speaking on a Cultural level because this is the issue since almost all religions are against dating or as Sher Singh wrote "going out" 2nd version.

Dating wasn't even part of European history till the late 16 and 17th centuries. And even then it was called Courting (getting to know a person before marriage. Marriage was still the end result of Courting).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3091

Dating is a total Western twist on the old morals of Courting.

Now back to the original question (sorry i love history so i always refer to it when i get the chance). What your trying to fight is Punjabi culture which is very Anti-Dating. Heck they don't even like women and men touching till marriage. So by that standard Dating is a huge NO-NO.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=3091

As for Sikhism. Sher Singh said it best...... dating = Lustful thoughts which produce bad deeds which in turn bring the slow degration of the Soul. Sikhism looks at this on a thought level rather then the basic physical affects. Intimacy is the main reason we date. Intimacy makes a person naturally think lustful thoughts (and yes i'm even a victim of this). A Sikh tries to live so that one day we stop being slaves to the 5 vices and in turn they become ours. This battle goes on 24/7 try fighting the urge.

S|kH · #8 (**permalink**) 21-Apr-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravisingh

Personally, I do not see an issue in people of different faiths dating. There certainly is not any direct guidance as such from the sikh rehat or the scriptures. Often with Sikhism punjabi culture is seen as interwined with the religion --of course this is completely incorrect. What your boyfriend is describing is a sort of racism that is unfortunately rampant among punjabis

On the other hand, being a minority culture, there is always a tendency to want to protect it. Such protectionism is common among many minority cultural groups. In my humble opinion, this does not excuse it but I hope that it at least serves as an explanation. In most cases there will be an immense social stigma for the child not to date outside of the community (or to date at all). The fact that traditionally parents chose mates for their children is also partly to blame for the bias against dating. This is of course terribly old fashioned (it is very rare for parents to choose their child's mate these days) however, again, I hope that it serves as a sort of explanation for where he may be coming from.

take care,

Ravi Singh

I agree with Ravi Singh ji, 100%.

Personally, I wish you the best of luck, and I will tell you that dating is allowed.

The above reasons for outlawing dating, are very very thinly stretched out quotes that people intrepret for their own cause. I am not saying that they are wrong, but, Sikhi does not speak on dating. It was not common culture at all to date before marriage back in the day. When Sikhi speaks and states that "do not touch women other than your wife", one must take into account that the only sort of pre-marriage relationships with the opposite sex were along the lines of rape. (once again, back in the day). They did not date, and they did not court, all marriages were set up by either parents or some sort of leader. When Sikhi outlaws lust, it does so because at that time, Rape was prominent, and was easily commitable.

Can you date and not have a relationship that is about sex, or even withold from sex till marriage? I would certainly say so, and I've seen people do it numerous times before, you just both have to be aware and careful. The ones that say dating = lust, are also people who've most likely not dating because they think its wrong.

Sikhi never totally speaks on dating, what it does speak on, is lust. Can you have lustful intentions with your girlfriend? Yes. Can you have sole lustful intentions with your wife? Yes. Can you rape your wife? Yes.
Does it make it all right just because you are married? No.
Sikhi speaks explicitly on lust, can you imply that towards dating? Yes you can, but once again it is implied, as per ones own intrepretation. You can also easily apply it to marriage. Perhaps this is a more liberal meaning than the ones stated above, but I tend to believe the Gurus were aware that the marriage-tradition would change, and hence they spoke explicitly on lust, which can happen at any time in ones life, not just when dating.

Muslims used to go around villages and select the most beautiful women and then marry them before forcing them to bear their children. Does that mean that these muslims were ok, just because they were married? I wouldn't agree, they are just as lustful if they hadn't married. They married solely for the purpose of lust, which back then was culture. If you date solely for the prupose of lust, you are going against Sikhi. But, not if you just date, and are both aware of your future goals concerning lines of sexual intimacy.

Therefore, the implied definition of dating is relative to all individuals. Sikhi does speak on such things as lust, so please be aware of that, and try to control at the best of your ability.

It does NOT speak on dating, dating was never a topic in Sikhi. It is personal choice and how you handle yourself.

Edit : I just noticed you were a girl, sorry for replying as if you were a boy. Please just replace the words.

Sher Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 22-Apr-2005, 09:48 AM

good points S|kh