Hair and General Sikh Philosophy Study

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

You should accept God's gift of haircut, as well as his gift of nails...

Originally Posted by Singh

Bhagat Singh ji, i see the point you are making here, but ask yourself a question. Why did the Guru's Cut their nails, but not their hair?

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Our nails grow since they are meant to be used quite a lot. If they didn't continue to grow continuously during our lifetimes, they would eventually erode away, leaving nothing behind. Which sucks though, because we need them. (If you have a hard time grasping this concept then look at beaver's teeth, claws of lion, tiger, etc)

In our society, we would need to cut our nails because we don't use our hands alot (we use tools, which protect out hands and nails). So to keep our nails short and manegeable, we simply cut them instead of scraping them along harder/rougher surfaces.

Originally Posted by Singh

Thanks for the info, but i already knew this.

What were your intentions when you wrote this? If we both agree nails can be cut but not hair.

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Originally Posted by Singh

Yes BhagatSingh ji, i agree it is up to the individual to accept what they want. But being a Sikh we accept the hair and do not cut it and nails can be cut for the reason you have given and others. This reminds me of the shabads:

Some sing of His Power-who has that Power? Some sing of His Gifts, and know His Sign and Insignia. Some sing of His Glorious Virtues, Greatness and Beauty. Some sing of knowledge obtained of Him, through difficult philosophical studies. Some sing that He fashions the body, and then again reduces it to dust. Some sing that He takes life away, and then again restores it.



Page 2
Some sing that He seems so very far away. Some sing that He watches over us, face to face, ever-present. There is no shortage of those who preach and teach. Millions upon millions offer millions of sermons and stories. The Great Giver keeps on giving, while those who receive grow weary of receiving. Throughout the ages, consumers consume. The Commander, by His Command, leads us to walk on the Path. O Nanak, He blossoms forth, Carefree and Untroubled. || 3 || True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love. People beg and pray, "Give to us, give to us", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts. So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court? What words can we speak to evoke His Love? In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found. O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. || 4 ||


What can the poor helpless creatures do? Your Praises are overflowing with Your Treasures. Those, unto whom You give-how can they think of any other? O Nanak, the True One embellishes and exalts. || 4 || 2 ||

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Why?

Originally Posted by Singh

Its simple as this because it was Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jis hukam for Sikhs to keep their hair. For a Sikh there should be no other Skeptic thoughts after this. But we are Skeptic people and we want to know even more and more. In other words we want to know everything in this world and the universe, but even knowing everthing in this world is useless if you dont accept Guru ji.

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying. They never accepted any Guru jis, and they always questioned the flaws in society and not only that they actually did something about them.
A big example and a common one is Guru Nanak rejecting the jenaeoo. His father ordered him, along with a pundit, to put on this jenaeoo. He questioned them and did not wear it. Bottomline, our Gurus weren't brainless zombies and neither am I.

Originally Posted by Singh

Well if you look at this comment closely why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji follow another Guru when he follows God. Guru ji had the direct connection with God. But us on the other hand are just creatures that need to be guided and who do the SIkhs look to for the correct direction? Guru ji. So what must one do to follow Sikhism, follow Guru ji.
I have reminded Sikhs many times you dont have to listen to a word i say, but the only one that you should take into consideration is that ask Guru ji your question. But that doesnt always happen and people start asking question on this site and others. So the best thing anyone else or i can do is give them the facts and there will be always someone out their that disagrees, thats fine as long as its in the best interest of the person who asked the question and others. so if your implying that i am a Guru Lol, then thats your intrepation of me. Which is really funny. You got me laughing really hard here

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

What do you mean by direct connection?
Yes humans need guidance from time to time, but guidance doesn't mean you can't question anything.

Follow Guru JI, meaning follow Guru Granth Sahib?
Can you show me where in Guru Granth Sahib, rules are being imposed on the reader, like "don't cut hair"???

How in the world you got the idea that I was implying that you are a guru, I don't know. In fact, if you read my post correctly, I said, "It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying." Read my posts carefully mate.
But I am glad I put a smile on your face.
Unless you laugh without smiling.... hehe

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

What do you mean by direct connection?

Yes humans need guidance from time to time, but guidance doesn't mean you can't question anything.


Follow Guru JI, meaning follow Guru Granth Sahib?
Can you show me where in Guru Granth Sahib, rules are being imposed on the reader, like "don't cut hair"???


How in the world you got the idea that I was implying that you are a guru, I don't know. In fact, if you read my post correctly, I said, "It's funny how Guru Gobind Singh and the other Gurus always did the opposite of what you're saying." Read my posts carefully mate.
But I am glad I put a smile on your face.
Unless you laugh without smiling.... hehe

Originally Posted by Singh

That Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is already one with God.


Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. The answers become meaningless to you and your soul can be lossed in the five theives.

Yes

That i know of nowhere and neither does it say you can cut your hair. Here are some Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut.

BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of
my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has
given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144

He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-
The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware. Chanting His Name night and
day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. || 223 || ang 1376

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: They pluck the hair out of their heads, and drink in filthy water;
they beg endlessly and eat the garbage which others have thrown away. They spread manure, they suck in rotting smells, and
they are afraid of clean water. Their hands are smeared with ashes, and the hair on their heads is plucked out.they are like
sheep! They have renounced the lifestyle of their mothers and fathers, and their families and relatives cry out in distress. No
one offers the rice dishes at their last rites, and no one lights the lamps for them. After their death, where will they be sent?
The sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage give them no place of protection, and no Brahmin will eat their food. They remain
polluted forever, day and night; they do not apply the ceremonial tilak mark to their foreheads. They sit together in silence, as
if in mourning; they do not go to the Lord.s Court. With their begging bowls hanging from their waists, and their fly-brushes in
their hands, they walk along in single file. They are not Yogis, and they are not Jangams, followers of Shiva.
-150-
They are not Qazis or Mullahs. Ruined by the Merciful Lord, they wander around in disgrace, and their entire troop is
contaminated. The Lord alone kills and restores to life; no one else can protect anyone from Him. They go without giving alms
or any cleansing baths; their shaven heads become covered with dust. The jewel emerged from the water, when the mountain
of gold was used to churn it. The gods established the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, where the festivals are
celebrated and hymns are chanted. After bathing, the Muslims recite their prayers, and after bathing, the Hindus perform their
worship services. The wise always take cleansing baths. At the time of death, and at the time of birth, they are purified, when
water is poured on their heads. O Nanak, the shaven-headed ones are devils. They are not pleased to hear these words. When
it rains, there is happiness. Water is the key to all life. When it rains, the corn grows, and the sugar cane, and the cotton,
which provides clothing for all. When it rains, the cows always have grass to graze upon, and housewives can churn the milk
into butter. With that ghee, sacred feasts and worship services are performed; all these efforts are blessed. The Guru is the
ocean, and all His Teachings are the river. Bathing within it, glorious greatness is obtained. O Nanak, if the shaven-headed
ones do not bathe, then seven handfuls of ashes are upon their heads. || 1 || ang 150

On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds and on each and every hair, the Lord
abides. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. Speak the speech of God.s spiritual wisdom. || 15 ||ang 344

Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to
perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I
meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating
my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and
tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to
Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443

Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is graceful, and Your hair is so long. Your body is
precious, cast in gold. His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna.s mala; meditate on Him, O sisters. You shall not have to
stand at Death.s door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings. From a crane, you shall be transformed into a swan, and the
filth of your mind shall be removed. Your eyes are beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. || 7 || ang 567

I have come to Your Sanctuary, Destroyer of pain; O Primal
Immaculate Lord, may I dwell upon You in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. O Lord of beautiful hair, Destroyer of
pain, Eradicator of sins, Nanak lives, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. || 2 || 9 || 125 || ang 829

Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call
in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and
listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting
lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The
Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God.
-924-
The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 923

BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

Did Guru Nanak follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers.

oh pluhlease.
Ill comment once you explain your definition of the soul and five thieves.
Ok let's see...

...nothing here that says don't, or should not or does not need to be cut, unless you can explain otherwise.

Ok for some reason I did not find this on page 1356, so no comments until you can provide me with the correct page number. i am using www.srigranth.org
WOW, talk about off topic. I don't see how this has anything to do with hair.
Beautifully-haired lord eh? cool. And this is supposed to tell me to not cut my hair, etc etc?
the same kabeer tells me this:
ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
Did not find these quotes on page 150 so no comments until you provide correct page number, i am using Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib
Let me finish this off.
ਚਉਦਸਿ ਚਉਦਹ ਲੋਕ ਮਝਾਰਿ ॥
चउदसि चउदह लोक मझारि ॥
Cẖa*uḏas cẖa*oḏah lok majẖār.
On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds

ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
रोम रोम महि बसहि मुरारि ॥
Rom rom meh baseh murār.
and on each and every hair, the Lord abides.

ਸਤ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਹੁ ਧਿਆਨ ॥
सत संतोख का धरहु धिआन ॥
Saṯ sanṯokẖ kā ḏẖarahu ḏẖi*ān.
Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment.

ਕਥਨੀ ਕਥੀਐ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨ ॥੧੫॥
कथनी कथीऐ ब्रहम गिआन ॥१५॥
Kathnī kathī*ai barahm gi*ān. ||15||
Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15||

ਪੂਨਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਚੰਦ ਅਕਾਸ ॥
पूनिउ पूरा चंद अकास ॥
Pūni*o pūrā cẖanḏ akās.
On the day of the full moon, the full moon fills the heavens.

ਪਸਰਹਿ ਕਲਾ ਸਹਜ ਪਰਗਾਸ ॥
पसरहि कला सहज परगास ॥
Pasrahi kalā sahj pargās.
Its power is diffused through its gentle light.

ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਮਧਿ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਿਆ ਥੀਰ ॥
आदि अंति मधि होइ रहिआ थीर ॥
Āḏ anṯ maḏẖ ho*ė rahi*ā thīr.
In the beginning, in the end, and in the middle, God remains firm and steady.

ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਮਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ॥੧੬॥
सुख सागर महि रमहि कबीर ॥१६॥
Sukẖ sāgar meh rameh Kabīr. ||16||
Kabeer is immersed in the ocean of peace. ||16||

Again doesnt say "don't cut hair", "shouldnt cut hair" or "dont need to cut hair".
the" long haired lord" thing seems to be a trend in Kabeer's writings.

... this is getting repititive. Its talking about how a gurmukh is absorbed into the meditation. That every single hair on his/her body is meditating upon hte lord. Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."


... copy and paste
Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."
Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again)
No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

Did Guru Nanak (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers.

Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Inner-knower of my heart. The Naam is so useful to me. The Lord.s Name permeates each and every hair of mine. The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 || ang 1144 Quote: ..nothing here that says don't, or should not or does not need to be cut, unless you can explain otherwise.

The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 ||

Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) He gives Support to the unsupported. The Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy. -1356- Quote: Ok for some reason I did not find this on page 1356, so no comments until you can provide me with the correct page number. i am using www.srigranth.org

Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Quote: Beautifully-haired lord eh? cool. And this is supposed to tell me to not cut my hair, etc etc? the same kabeer tells me this: ਕਬੀਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਇਕਸਿਉਕੀਏਆਨਦੁਬਿਧਾਜਾਇ॥ कबीरप्रीतिइकसिउकीएआनदुबिधाजाइ॥ Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė. Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥੨੫॥ भावैलांबेकेसकरुभावैघररिमुडाइ॥२५॥ Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25|| You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord. The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords. what good is love for them? || 24 || Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. || 25 || Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap. I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape. || 26 || Kabeer, this body shall perish; save it, if you can. Even those who have tens of thousands and millions, must depart bare-footed in the end. || 27 || ang 1365

Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds and on each and every hair, the Lord abides. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. Speak the speech of God.s spiritual wisdom. || 15 ||ang 344 Let me finish this off. ਚਉਦਸਿਚਉਦਹਲੋਕਮਝਾਰਿ॥ चउदसिचउदहलोकमझारि॥ Cẖa*uḏas cẖa*oḏah lok majẖār. On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds ਰੋਮਰੋਮਮਹਿਬਸਹਿਮੁਰਾਰਿ॥ रोमरोममहिबसहिमुरारि॥ Rom rom meh baseh murār. and on each and every hair, the Lord abides. ਸਤਸੰਤੋਖਕਾਧਰਹੁਧਿਆਨ॥ सतसंतोखकाधरहुधिआन॥ Saṯ sanṯokẖ kā ḏẖarahu ḏẖi*ān. Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. ਕਥਨੀਕਥੀਐਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨ॥੧੫॥ कथनीकथीऐब्रहमगिआन॥१५॥ Kathnī kathī*ai barahm gi*ān. ||15|| Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15|| ਪੂਨਿਉਪੂਰਾਚੰਦਅਕਾਸ॥ पूनिउपूराचंदअकास॥ Pūni*o pūrā cẖanḏ akās. On the day of the full moon, the full moon fills the heavens. ਪਸਰਹਿਕਲਾਸਹਜਪਰਗਾਸ॥ पसरहिकलासहजपरगास॥ Pasrahi kalā sahj pargās. Its power is diffused through its gentle light. ਆਦਿਅੰਤਿਮਧਿਹੋਇਰਹਿਆਥੀਰ॥ आदिअंतिमधिहोइरहिआथीर॥ Āḏ anṯ maḏẖ ho*ė rahi*ā thīr. In the beginning, in the end, and in the middle, God remains firm and steady. ਸੁਖਸਾਗਰਮਹਿਰਮਹਿਕਬੀਰ॥੧੬॥ सुखसागरमहिरमहिकबीर॥१६॥ Sukẖ sāgar meh rameh Kabīr. ||16|| Kabeer is immersed in the ocean of peace. ||16|| Again doesnt say "don't cut hair", "shouldnt cut hair" or "dont need to cut hair". the" long haired lord" thing seems to be a trend in Kabeer's writings.

Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) Hearing the Bani of the Lord.s Name, all my affairs were brought to perfection and embellished. With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. I meditate on the Lord.s Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. The Name of the Lord, Raam, Raam, is permeating my heart deep within, and all of my desire and hunger has disappeared. My mind and body are totally adorned with peace and tranquility; through the Guru.s Teachings, the Lord has been revealed to me. The Lord Himself has shown His kind mercy to Nanak; He has made me the slave of the slaves of His slaves. || 3 || ang 443 ... this is getting repititive. Its talking about how a gurmukh is absorbed into the meditation. That every single hair on his/her body is meditating upon hte lord. Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) I have come to Your Sanctuary, Destroyer of pain; O Primal Immaculate Lord, may I dwell upon You in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. O Lord of beautiful hair, Destroyer of pain, Eradicator of sins, Nanak lives, gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. || 2 || 9 || 125 || ang 829 Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] (Regarding Sikh Girls) Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God. -924- The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 923 Again nothing to do with "helps one realize hair should not be cut nor does it need to be cut."

Quote: I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again)[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG] No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

Originally Posted by Singh

So what is your point here?

huh?
You said, " Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. "

I replied, "Did Guru Nanak follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers."

My point is we can do the same.

Okay lets look what the shabad is saying. God’s name exist in each and every hair of mine. Some can say the shabad is saying God exist everywhere. But one word changes everything here. “Mine” meaning my hair. So God exist in your and my hair. Now if I cut this hair does that bring me closer to God or further? Just this action alone all other factors stay the same. Then read the next line.
So you're saying God only exists in hair?


The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. || 1 ||

What gift is Guru ji referring to here? The gift of the lord’s name. The lord’s name is a gift from the True Guru and this naam permeates on every hair of mine then this hair that is on our body’s is of some use. It must have something really special about it but some do not know why it is so special.
Hair are all over your body so what that is saying is the the Lord's name is everywhere. In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
He gives Support to the unsupported. The
Name of the Lord is the Wealth of the poor. The Lord of the Universe is the Master of the masterless; the Beautiful-haired Lord
is the Power of the weak. The Lord is Merciful to all beings, Eternal and Unchanging, the Family of the meek and humble. The
All-knowing, Perfect, Primal Lord God is the Lover of His devotees, the Embodiment of Mercy.
-1356-


Its on ang 1355 near the end and at the top of 1356. Just look more carefully, you’ll find it.
All I wanted to share with you here was that Guru ji is describing Waheguru with beautiful-hair.
Guru Ji says Waheguru has no form.


Originally Posted by Singh [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_ADM~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent, Luminous Lord, dwells in each and every heart. Nanak begs for this blessing from
the Merciful Lord, that he may never forget Him, never forget Him. || 21 ||ang 1356

Well not really, the shabad is on the same ang as the top one 1355-1356. So once again be more careful before you rush to a conclusion.
I did ctrl + f (find), couldn't find it.


Kabeer, be in love with only that one, whose Master is the Lord. The Pandits, the religious scholars, kings and landlords. what good is love for them? || 24 || Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. || 25 || Kabeer, the world is a room filled with black soot; the blind fall into its trap. I am a sacrifice to those who are thrown in, and still escape. || 26 || Kabeer, this body shall perish; save it, if you can. Even those who have tens of thousands and millions, must depart bare-footed in the end. || 27 || ang 1365


To understand these shabads look at what Kabeer ji is saying first. Kabeer is saying nothing else matters when you are in love with the Lord. Only the one matters. Also he is saying do not get caught up in worldly affairs so much that you forget about the overall goal.
Perfect!!! I think you're getting it now.

Keeping the hair or cutting the hair can distract a person from the ultimate goal in life.
Exactly!
The hair creates an issue for an instance cutting it every time takes time trying to making it look good for yourself or others can start eating at the person.
Why are you just talking about cutting hair? People that don't cut their hair have the same problem. A BIG generalization here!

The person constantly alters the hair to be perceived in a certain wayand the person then gets tired of that look and moves on to another.
Human nature...

This will also be changed in time. nowthe person is caught up in the maya of hair and beauty and forgets the Lord.
This is why Buddhist monks shave their head.

The person starts going to hair salons spending unbelievable amount of time and money to worry about something that will turn into dust anyway.
Also the one that keeps his hair can be doing the same thing.
This is better.

Constantly worrying about how it looks spending so much time trying to make it look good and then forgetting the ultimate goal in life.
Exactly!

This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam,
Why is it better? Just because someone says its better??
The Gurus did NOT think that way! So why do you?

the Gurus kept their hair
Once again there is not proof that all the Gurus kept their hair uncut.

and the science also lead us to believe hair does bring us closer to the Lord.
??? Science often leaves God out of things. I don't know where you are getting this from.



These shabads are on at the end of ang 149 and at the top of ang 150. I wait for your response on this one.
Ill get back to you, once I look at them.



Just showing that God abides on every hair and the hair has use and should be kept to find out that use.
God abides everywhere. Yes hair may have a use and we must find out what that use if. I agree with that.

Otherwise Guru ji would have not put this in. Yes it is a trend and it has meaning my friend.
If Kabeer sees his lord with beautiful hair (notice how it's not "uncut"). Then let him, Guru Ji tells us that the Lord is formless.

The only thing is we humans do not know the meaning of this trend. Just because it is a trend we should not put it in the back and think nothing of it for the line has reason and meaning.
Agreed.


Hold up, read the Shabad one more time with an open mind. Lol yes it is getting repetitive which is the point. In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Guru tells us to repeat the lords name over and over and this gets repetitive and I don’t see you taking it so lightly. The Guru repeats what they want us to understand so easily. Now if one cuts the hair off the body then how can that person mediate on that hair.
Um, last time I check, we meditate on the infinite Lord.
If you meditate on your hair, then that's fine.

That person has loosed the opportunity to mediate on that hair.
uh...ya...

Now if we are told to constantly mediate on the lord and we take away the hair that also mediates on the lord does that make us better off or worse off?
Neither, the only thing that matters is that we are meditating.

The lord is described with hair and it has meaning to it like I said above.
The lord if defined with hair not "uncut" hair. And the lord has been defined to be formless. Sargun and Nirgun
The lord is defined to posess all attributes and no attributes. both cut hair, uncut hair and no hair come into that.


Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth.
The guru is biased!
So the Guru calls in ones with long hair. Did he check to see if they were uncut?



What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair.
It's a total shock to me that you think all their Gurus kept uncut hair, without any historical evidence.


The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing.
Buddy, the Gurus were forced to convert to a different religion! They laid down their lives because they wanted to practice their OWN beliefs. Not because they were told to cut their hair. Cutting hair after someone converted to Islam was part of the conversion process.



Dalsingh ji nicely said. But a few things I would like to point out.

When the question of hair arises in Sikhism like it has now it should be explored. Just pushing it aside is when one person can make a mistakes and end up telling others there is no use of hair.
I never said their is no use of hair, I simply commented that both haircuts and uncut hair (and nails) are God's gift. I suggest you read posts carefully before replying.

Yes arguing over the issue like animals will get you no where and only hurt the people spiritually in the longrun. Also for a person with kesh to bash a mona is wrong and the cause of this bashing is judging the person without getting to know him/her.

I totally agree people progress spiritually at there own pace, but again this issue has been brought up and it should be explored. I know it gets repetitive to bring it up over and over again but to ignore it is a mistake. The person asking the question does not know the facts and is asking for help. And for us to ignore the person would be really stupid of us. Why not share what you know of the great lord with others. It is the greatest gift one can give to another.

In EACH and EVERY hair of mine. It's called figure of speech. Were not looking at a scientific document here, this is poetry!

Quote: This theory works in both cases but keeping your hair is the better choice from the two because it was Guru Gobind Sinh Sahibs hukam, Why is it better? Just because someone says its better?? The Gurus did NOT think that way! So why do you?

Quote: Look at it again and see why the Guru is so specific when he says who should be called in to read the sermon of the lord. The long-haired scholarly saints are the one he specifies to read the sermon of the lord. Not the one that shave their head bald, but the ones with long-hair. And it does help the reader realize hair should be kept. Because the shabad is saying only the pure one’s are to read the lord’s sermon when the Guru is gone from this earth. The guru is biased! So the Guru calls in ones with long hair. Did he check to see if they were uncut?

Quote: What! All Gurus kept their hair long. Look what the last shabad that I explained says. This is a total shock to me that you would think that any of the Guru would cut their hair. It's a total shock to me that you think all their Gurus kept uncut hair, without any historical evidence.

Quote: The Gurus Sikhs laid their lifes down because they were told to cut there hair. Here you say there is no proof. Truly astonishing. Buddy, the Gurus were forced to convert to a different religion! They laid down their lives because they wanted to practice their OWN beliefs. Not because they were told to cut their hair. Cutting hair after someone converted to Islam was part of the conversion process.

The lord is described with hair and it has meaning to it like I said above.

huh? You said, " Yes question what you want but if you do not follow Guru ji then what is the use of all the answers. " I replied, "Did Guru Nanak (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) follow any Guru Jis? No, and yet he found a use of all the answers." My point is we can do the same.