Hair and General Sikh Philosophy Study

I asked you a couple of post back this question.BhagatSingh ji, Why would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji give the order to the Sikhs to keep their hair and why did the Gurus keep their hair uncut?
I don't know I am not Guru Gobind Singh. (been bashed on this forum for formulating a hypothesis of what Guru GObind singh would have thought when doing a certain action. SO I won't be getting into that again)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/22759-hair-and-general-sikh-philosophy-study.html
No proof of whether the other Gurus kept their hair uncut.

Now since you do not know the answer and you accept the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru, which also means you accept Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, then why do you say the Guru did not say we should or shouldn't keep our hair????? Because clearly Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said every Sikh must keep their hair.

 
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Guru ji is saying that with these hairs, he meditates on the Lord's name. There IS a difference.
He is saying that every part of him meditates! To the extent of each and every hair...get it?
It's not telling you to keep your hair uncut. You are missing the whole point of the shabad by concentrating on bits that are unimportant.

Wrong. Guru ji is saying that every part of him meditates on the Lord. Not that the hair meditates on the Lord.

Jumping to conclusions are we?
How you are coming to that conclusion remains a mystery to me. I think maybe you are seeing extra lines in the shabad, I don't know. :p


You are not giving me enough choices. I would say it does nothing. Keep your hair or lose it, its the same, when it comes to how close it brings you to God. If it wasn't like that then according to you Buddhist monks and anyone who cuts hair, are wasting their time. No my friend,
ਕਬੀਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਿਇਕਸਿਉਕੀਏਆਨਦੁਬਿਧਾਜਾਇ॥
कबीरप्रीतिइकसिउकीएआनदुबिधाजाइ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si*o kī*ė ān ḏubiḏẖā jā*ė.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈਲਾਂਬੇਕੇਸਕਰੁਭਾਵੈਘਰਰਿਮੁਡਾਇ॥੨੫॥
भावैलांबेकेसकरुभावैघररिमुडाइ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbė kės kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā*ė. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

In fact, many Bhagats did cut their hair, and the Gurus may have cut their hair as well. If the Gurus were against cutting hair they would have never put in that hymn from Kabeer, in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Guru Gobind Singh ji would have taken it out.

Ok...

"to concentrate the mind on one thing"? So a hair concentrates its mind on one thing... explains a ton. Definitely dumps that biology lecture out the drain. Hair are made of protein and they do not have a mind. Let's keep the facts straight, shall we?


You are going back to my post where I asked "why?" on this EXACT same reply.
Again, why?


Sorry I forgot about that.

Nothing here that says to me don't cut your hair/ don't shave your head.
I think this passage talks about keeping clean. :p Both mentally and physically.

on a side note: for people who do not bathe, it is often more hygienic for them to shave their heads, faces, armpit hair and pubic hair, and that's because of the large surface area of hair, it accumulates a lot of dust, dirt, sweat, etc, and one can be infected with lice and diseases.

Why must every Sikh keep hair?

BhagatSingh Ji, I have one question. Do you accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as your Guru? Which means you accpet all the other Gurus from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji of Sikhism.

Yes, I do but why do you ask, when I have said, "Bottomline, our Gurus weren't brainless zombies and neither am I."?

BhagatSingh ji, Read what Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji has to say and Guru Nanak Dev ji on this issue. Also read the paragraph were it says hair has more use than just biological functions

Bhai Desa Singh, records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਬ ਸਿ੍ਰਸਿਟ ਉਪਾਈ । ਤਬ ਹੀ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਨਾਈ ।
ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜੁ ਦੀਨੋ । ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰਿਹ ਕੀਨੋ ।
ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁੱਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ । ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦਿ੍ੜ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ।
ਮੇਟ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ । ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ।
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22759
“God created the whole universe and then he fashioned the human body. He gave man a beard, moustaches and hair on the head. He who submits to His Will steadfastly adheres to them. They who deny His Will how will they find God in this world?”

The Janam Saakhis quote Guru Nanak Dev Ji saying:
ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤ ਰੱਬ ਦੀ, ਭੰਨੇ ਬੇਈਮਾਨ।
ਦਰਗਹਿ ਢੋਈ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੇ, ਕਾਫ਼ਰ, ਕੁੱਤਾ, ਸ਼ੈਤਾਨ।
"God has made the human perfect, but the dishonourable destroy it.
They will find no place in the Court of God, like the unbeliever, dog and Satanist."

Bhai Sahib Singh (one of the original Panj Pyaare), records Guru Gobind Singh Ji's given discipline in a Rehitnaama (Order of discipline):
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
"The Guru's stamp is Kesh and (Khandi di) Pahul, one who removes (their Kesh) is known as an apostate (bemukh). One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost."

As well as having biological functions and benefits, the hair is sacred due to the fact that spiritual energy abides within each and every pore of hair on the body. The hairs are like electrical wires, which preserve, carry and vibrate energy. When one chants & meditates the Divine- Name (Naam), each hair vibrates. Sikhs do not forcibly or intentionally remove any hair from the body but maintain clean hair with proper washing; tying and keeping them covered are requirements for a Sikh.
Gurbaani (the Divine Word) says:
ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22759
“On each and every hair, the Lord abides.”
(Ang 344)
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
“The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.”
(Ang 941)

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I find this argument that "where in sri guru granth sahib ji it said that we cannot cut hair" is absolutely stupid. this is a talk of a 3 or 4 yr old child. as soon as you question as to where it is written and need proof, it is so obvious you are a person trying to justify your action by questioning the beliefs of the religion.

you want to cut hair or you already have but you question the fundamentals of the religion. the 5 k's were introduced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Then, you are just questioning the jusrtification of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

You cut nails beacuse they carry germs in your finger nails. we eat with our hands. we wash our *** with our hands. science will tell you that it is hygienice to cut nails. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not made it compulsory not to cut nails becasue he knows of the benefits of cutting nails. Just like his horse that refuse to cross the filed that was growing tobacco. today we have doctors and everyone telling us that smoking is bad.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22759
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22759

it tells us that our Gurus had foresight. Yet, today, I have my sikh brothers and sisters questioning why must we cut hair, why cant we smoke. What a shame.

Satwant

Gurbani tells me that no one can deny his WILL, everyone is subject to it!
Page 1, Line 9
ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
हुकमै अंदरि सभु को बाहरि हुकम न कोइ ॥
Hukmai anḏar sabẖ ko bāhar hukam na ko*ė.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.
Guru Nanak Dev

I would take the rehitnamas with a "pinch of salt" if I were you.

Ok.
Again, same thing with janamsakhis, take them with a pinch of salt.
Can you send the links to the resources from where you found these?
And why isn't this is the Guru Granth Sahib? I mean it's a good quote, seriously.
As much as I love the quote I doubt Guru Nanak Dev ji would say humans are perfect.
I can counter it is with the following quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji written by Nanak:
Page 17, Line 11
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਾਚੁ ਅਤੋਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि पूरा जे करे पाईऐ साचु अतोलु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ pūrā jė karė pā*ī*ai sācẖ aṯol. ||1|| rahā*o.
One who attains perfection as Gurmukh, obtains the Immeasurable True Lord. ||1||Pause||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Again, I would like to clear up:
I don't mean to discourage anyone who keeps their Kes. My point is that keeping Kes is one's personal choice and has nothing to do with spirituality of that person.


This is Bhai Sahib's Singh's opinion. If he wishes to think so then let him. Gurbani tells me no such thing, and I doubt the original 5 Pyarey would say something like this. If they did then that's fine, but I doubt it.

I would like to see those biological functions and benefits, at least in document. Has a study ever been done on hair that states they contain spiritual energy?
If so I would like to see it If not then I would like to see studies being done. Maybe Das will do a study, being a biologist in training.


Again, God abides everywhere, so this is nothing new. The shabad must be put in to context before the message becomes clear.

Again, shabad must be put in to context before the message becomes clear.
Since you insist that this quote says we should keep hair. I will say that since it doesnt say the hair has to be uncut, we can safely say that it is not telling us "don't cut hair".
http://medicalimages.allrefer.com/la...le-anatomy.jpgEven if the hair is cut/shaved, a part of it exists near and underneath the skin.

This is an insult to anyone who wishes to talk about this topic. Lucky for you, I will not lower myself to your insults.
But since you have taken the time to reply to the topic, I will answer your post with utmost respect.

"where in sri guru granth sahib ji it said that we cannot cut hair"
You forgot to add a question mark, because in fact, this is a question, not an argument, and no question is stupid. In reality, this question is asked very often, so it must be very important to answer. I appreciate the effort Singh has put in to try and answer it.
For me the the answer remains: No, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not tell us to keep our hair uncut. It's a personal choice.
In fact, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a Do's and Don't's list.
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Satwant ji, the sky is green. Don't ask any questions and believe that! If you question then you are trying to justify your belief of a blue sky by questioning the beliefs of the religion, Green Skyism.
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Are you talking about me in that quote? If so, its big assumption, not a good thing on your part.
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I am questioning Guru Gobind Singh ji's introduction of kesh as one of the five k's, not his justification. I am actually looking for his justification on this topic.
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That's not why I cut my nails. Please read the very first post on this topic to see my reasoning for cutting nails. When nails get dirty, we can easily clean them. Many women are into this fashion, keeping long nails.
For your convenience, I present you with my response to why we cut nails:
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I believe you missed my side note in an earlier post, so I suggest you go back and read the posts.
Here is my side note:
Same thing can be said for nails. IF you don't keep them clean, then it's hygeinic to cut them.
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Yes, and if Singhs didn't cut their nails back then, they would have lost all battles as they would have trouble doing their daily chores, with a metre long, curled up nails.
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I don't know about that but it sure tells us Guru ji wasn't backwards.
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Today, you have a another brother asking, " Why can't we question anything?"
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Truly, a shame!
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Bhagat Singh

Finally, the True Guru said, .When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.. Call in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. Read the sermon of the Lord, and listen to the Lord.s Name; the Guru is pleased with love for the Lord. Do not bother with offering rice-***** on leaves, lighting lamps, and other rituals like floating the body out on the Ganges; instead, let my remains be given up to the Lord.s Pool. The Lord was pleased as the True Guru spoke; he was blended then with the all-knowing Primal Lord God. Ang 923

The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. || 5 || ang 924

This Shabad is telling a sakhi when Guru Amar Das ji left this earth and Guru Ram Das Ji was appointed the next Guru. And Guru Amar Das JI said at the time when I am gone sing Kirtan in praise of the Lord and call in the long-haired Scholarly Saints of the Lord to read the sermon of the Lord. Then Guru Amar Das ji says read the sermon of the lord and listen to the lord’s name. And don’t bother with performing rituals.

Yes it does say read the sermon of the Lord, but who should read it the long-haired scholarly saints of the LORD at that time when Guru Amar Das ji left this earth.. They are not just long-haired but scholarly and saints. This is a perfect example why a Sikh should keep the hair uncut. When Guru ji directly asked for specific Sikhs to read the sermons of the lord. There is no need to wonder why he called them to read the sermon of the Lord because he says why in the next three words ‘of the Lord.’ The long-haired scholarly saints are of the Lord.


Exactly, every part of the body mediates on the Lord’s name and the body consists of hair which also meditates. See you have said it yourself to the extent that each and every hair. There you have it. The hair as a use it meditates when the person meditates. Guru ji is telling us that the hair and the whole body meditates when the person meditates. Guru ji is not just saying his hair alone can meditate on the Lord but everyone else’s.

The hair on top of the head are like antenna’s that pick up on signals and we can use these hairs to get a higher frequency when they are kept long and uncut. When these hairs are tied on top of the head in a round ball they can pick up even higher frequency’s. Then the reason why we wear a pagg is because to keep this frequency on one channel. Also the reason why Buddhists shave their head bald is because then they don’t pick up on so many frequency which will make it difficult for them to meditate on nothing. This helps the Buddhist monks concentrate easier on what they are meditating on.




The hair is part of the body is it not. The body has hair on it and this is one part of Guru jis and our bodies. The body when brought into this world has hair on it.

BhagatSingh ji, first you say, “Guru ji is saying that with these hairs, he meditates on the Lord's name.” and now you are asking me how I came to the conclusion that the hair has some use. When you cut that hair off it no longer is on the body and the person cannot meditate with that hair. The use of this hair is that it meditates with the person on the Lord.

Look at the first line of the Shabad it says WHEN you are in love with the One Lord. For this line to apply for anyone in this world they would have to be one with the Lord. Once you reach this stage then anything you do is true. This is what Kabeer ji is saying. And only WHEN you reach this stage in your life this Shabad apply to you.


Try to understand what Kabeer ji is saying and the best way to do this is by looking at what Kabeer ji is saying before this Shabad and right after it. Kabeer ji is talking about love for the Lord before these Shabads. He is saying the world is full of maya and to love this maya, and in these lines maya is being referred to as people, is usless,. And then he goes on to say only to love the one whose master is the Lord. Then the Shabads that comes after the lines that you have quoted is saying the world is full of other maya as well and the people that are attached to this maya fall in the trap and lose. Kabeer ji is saying once the duality alienation depart and you are in total love with the Lord THEN whatever you do is always true.