LOL

since when did Sikhism start giving moral classes?

i have a simple and easy suggestion, purely my opinion,

Sikhi can only give you directions and bearings to make distinction between what is just and unjust( i am not happy with using Good and Evil)

its upto YOU to use your God gifted brains to make those decisions.

actually the rehet maryada is very clear on this subject. you should not have sex with anyone except your spouse. if you do, you're committing a bujjar kurehet. it's right up there with cutting your hair or smoking.

that said, i don't think it's necessarily wrong to have a girlfriend/boyfriend before you marry... i strongly believe in love marriage, and how else will you find the one you love?

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Well said.

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Randip Singh
Sikh History Website

"Let no man be proud because of his caste/race (Jaat).
For the man who has God in his heart, he alone is the true Brahmin.
O stupid fool, be not proud of your caste/race (Jaat), by this pride many sins arise.
Everyone says there are four castes/races (Jaat), but they are all created from the Lords seed (essence).
All men are moulded from the same clay, but the potter has fashioned it into vessels of numerous forms.
By joining the five elements, the form of the body is made, no one can say that the element is less in one and more in another" Pg 1128 SGGS

I guess im soo caught up in this youth thing, being 18 and all hehe, so i find it hard to say that its alright to have a girlfriend/boyfriend. Once someone becomes of age to get married, then i dont see a problem in going out for dinner of something with someone of the opposite gender.
But as per the question being asked, at the age of 16...girlfriend/ boyfriends are a no no.
Also, once one does step into the world of dating, i think its something that the parents should be fully aware of. They should get to know the person whom you are persuing this relationship with. I've met many people who has hid it from their parents..and in the end it did not go so well. :P

One thing particularly struck me about this post. "One someone becomes of age to get married" ...

what is "of age" ? And is this not a relative term to how far society has progressed?

The original age of getting married was 13 (puberty!), because most people lived till a bout late 20s or so. My grandmother was married at like 19 or something ridiculous, which would not even be acceptable for most parents today to allow their innocent Sikh child to date at that age.

As far as someone using their "God-gifted" brain to answer this question, I agree.

And for the people who say our bodies are raging hormones and we should control them...didn't God give us those hormones? Aren't they raging for a purpose? If they cloud judgment, didn't God want those hormones to cloud judgment otherwise we would have thought our minds are smarter than our bodies ? (which is hardly ever the case)...but, we've created a society where controlling your hormones at that age is more beneficial for you in the long-run (We've become smarter than original god-granted "gifts")

And then there's the other perspective -- "don't do it, it is one of the four main taboos, alongside cutting hair, tobacco usage, and eating halal meat"

Break those four taboos down into historical perspective.

I believe the actual "sin" is to commit adultery, and I believe before it was written as adultery, it was actually written as "Don't marry a muslim woman" -- who were we at war with historically? So, much for that rehit. What a method to separate, divide, and stay in power!

"Don't eat halal meat" -- Wow, what a genius way to keep muslims and sikhs separated during almost any gathering, what a way to never allow a Sikh child to invite his muslim friend over for dinner or vice versa -- who were we at war with historically?

History re-written.

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Anyways, You live in 2007. Your from the United Kingdom, you should NOT feel sorry for dating. You should never feel sorry for dating OUTSIDE your race/religion, science even wants this to happen ! If you have sex, make sure its consensual, make sure you both are perfectly fine with it, and be aware of the consequences (emotionally, bodily, physically) -- be smart, and use protection.

Love can exist outside of being married.
Can you love someone at 18 years old? I agree, people were having sex at 13 years old, centuries ago, and it was under the same god.

If it doesn't involve anyone else, and no one is being hurt by the action, I see no issue with it.

I wonder how many parents expect their child to grow up to be 30 years old, with a pHD, and just start looking at potential mates, and still be a virgin. The elder generation amazes me yet again lol

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Music is the air I breathe
The prayer I leave
Rippin' in the atmosphere
Up there in the breeze

I have a question if sex outside marriage is not wrong then what's wrong in prostituion.
why majority of countries do not recognise prostuition as industry

Hi KDS 80.

I think the reality even in countries like India is that sex outside marriage happens and the people 90% of the time end up getting married anyway. Corrrect me if I am wrong, but it was my observation here in UK and in India. In Inia they hide it very well.

As for prostitution, that is a seperate issue but I can see what you are gettin at.

I think the REAK issue here is in any relationship are your actions guided by Kaam (Obsession with sex), or by Love? I do not think there is anything wrong with the latter. Just my opinion.

__________________
Randip Singh
Sikh History Website

"Let no man be proud because of his caste/race (Jaat).
For the man who has God in his heart, he alone is the true Brahmin.
O stupid fool, be not proud of your caste/race (Jaat), by this pride many sins arise.
Everyone says there are four castes/races (Jaat), but they are all created from the Lords seed (essence).
All men are moulded from the same clay, but the potter has fashioned it into vessels of numerous forms.
By joining the five elements, the form of the body is made, no one can say that the element is less in one and more in another" Pg 1128 SGGS

Yes, Rehtnama says about staying away from any woman except your spouse. But real status of Guru is only with Guru Granth Sahib. We should take all directions from there. Social standards keep on changing. Something that is a taboo nowadays, could be a norm in society in future. But your relation to God should not change with time.
Polygamy is not considred good in today's society (forget about muslims and mormons, they live in other age). But it was a norm in Punjab few decades back.
Homosexuals are common in western countries in these days. One could not even think about it few decades ago. It is even legalised now in some some countries (Holland, Canada and maybe more).
Every Sikh is supposed to follow high moral standards. But if Rehtnama is written in last century and it is not compatible with moral standards of today's society, then we should keep on modifying it. Jogo Jug Atal is out Guru Granth Sahib, but Rehtnama could be modified.
Sikhs should not get stuck like Hindus in Mannu Smirti, Muslims in Sharia or Christians in some kind ot Bible teachings.
Bhul chuk Maaf.

Sex outside marriage's in india do happen but its a strict no no in traditional families.

As far as difference between kaam and love is concerned i am sure 99% sex outside marriage happen's because of kaam and not because of love.