Sorry - another "Baba" question

MKAUR1981 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-Feb-2007, 18:00 PM

WJKK WJKF

I am sorry, but I am in a bit of a dilemna here.

Basically, I am due to go India later this year and although this is great news there is a place where I am to pray which I feel contradicts with my belief as a Sikh.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/14968-sorry-another-baba-question.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

It seems like most villages in India have a samadhi/religious place which is sacred to them. This is the case in my in-laws village. The last 2 times I have been to India, before going to our house we have to pray there. I have been told by my mother-in-law that it is the samadhi of my husbands ancestors. Although the Guru Granth Sahib is not kept there, Akhand Path's are done and the Guru Granth Sahib is brought from the local Gurdwara. However, any other day it means bowing towards where the mortal remains are buried and asking for blessing.

How do I avoid this without (a) contradicting my faith in the Guru Granth Sahib (b) offending my mother-in-law?

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simpy · #2 (**permalink**) 09-Feb-2007, 20:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKAUR1981

WJKK WJKF

I am sorry, but I am in a bit of a dilemna here.

Basically, I am due to go India later this year and although this is great news there is a place where I am to pray which I feel contradicts with my belief as a Sikh.

It seems like most villages in India have a samadhi/religious place which is sacred to them. This is the case in my in-laws village. The last 2 times I have been to India, before going to our house we have to pray there. I have been told by my mother-in-law that it is the samadhi of my husbands ancestors. Although the Guru Granth Sahib is not kept there, Akhand Path's are done and the Guru Granth Sahib is brought from the local Gurdwara. However, any other day it means bowing towards where the mortal remains are buried and asking for blessing.

How do I avoid this without (a) contradicting my faith in the Guru Granth Sahib (b) offending my mother-in-law?

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Respected MKaur Ji,

Be strong, and tell the truth(humbly), how you feel and understand in the light of Gurbani. And if you believe with true heart, you will see the positive effect, it may take some time and multiple humble efforts, but it will happen.

Always keep in mind one thing-
Bgqw qY sYswrIAw joVu kdy n AwieAw ]

there is always difference of opinion between believers and non believers. this is the truth a believer has to live with, this is what walking over the sharp edge is, maintaining the balance while living in this materialistic world.

MKAUR1981 · #3 (**permalink**) 09-Feb-2007, 21:38 PM

Quote:

Always keep in mind one thing-
Bgqw qY sYswrIAw joVu kdy n AwieAw ]

WJKK WJKF

Surinder Panji
Apologies, but could I have the English translations please.

I will have a word with my mother-in-law about this before we go. It's just that in the past I was not religious, so I just went a long with what she told me for a quiet life. However, now I question my mother-in-law when she tells me things, that I know contradict Sri Guru Granth Sahib. (For example, last month she said that every Sunday I should pour water towards the sun and throw black lentils in mustard oil, wrapped in black cloth in water!!! This is supposed to get rid of what she calls "grahe").

My mother-in-law is an Amritdhari, but still has very superstitious beliefs. However, at times when explaining to her that as a Sikh we should not believe in this, I sometimes I back down in the fear of offending her.

simpy · #4 (**permalink**) 09-Feb-2007, 23:00 PM

Respected MKaur Ji,

this means-
Between the Lord's devotees(bhagats) and the people of the world(sansari), there can never be any true alliance.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

Both lead a totally different philosophy of life.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

bhagat is living in this maya(material) and keeping himself/herself totally detached from it. No Iness is present in this person. Is filled with unconditional love for all. Is seeing/feeling/hearing God within and without. and possess limitless other divine qualities......

sansari is always lost in i/me/mine, no faith in God at all, love is only need base or conditional, always complaining, indulged in others nindya, praising themselves and so on........

Hai_Bhi_Sach · #5 (**permalink**) 20-Feb-2007, 17:36 PM

MKAUR ji

I thought I should perhaps ask you if you are still open for a responce to your question. It perhaps is too late for your trip but may be beneficial in the future. If so, then and only then I shall respond.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

MKAUR1981 · #6 (**permalink**) 20-Feb-2007, 17:41 PM

WJKK WJKF

SatSri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

I'm not due to travel until September this year, so I would appreciate any views on this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

Regards
Mkaur

Hai_Bhi_Sach · #7 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2007, 20:18 PM

Astrology is a Science and not Superstition. Spiritualism and Astrology go hand in hand. Guru Nanak Dev ji was very well versed with the knowledge of Astrology. He was also the perfect Scientist. People (especially pandits) have taken far too much advantage of this science for their selfish needs.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

Take for an example:
“throw black lentils in mustard oil, wrapped in black cloth in water!!! This is supposed to get rid of what she calls "grahe"”

What is being said here should be done on a Saturday in the evening after sunset. This is performed for the negative effects of Sani Grahe. Performing this on Sunday will give you bad results. The equivalent of this that is less offensive is to buy black colour leather shoes for an elderly gentleman or to donate sarb loh utensil to a Holly place. These appropriations work, there is no doubt. Our Gurus were aware of this and they have very lovingly provided us with alternatives.

The purpose of these remediations is to force people to perform charitable acts that one would not normally carry out. This is why Guru ji says “Wand ke Shako”. These are the equivalent charitable deeds we do as Sikhs without any tension. “Dasband” (10%) from your “Dassan noohan di Kamai”(Your honestly earned income) is again a remediation. Looking after elderly (other than your own family) “Sewa” is again a remediation. If we follow Sikhism properly we do not need to take instructions from anyone at all. The problem is that we are not told about these things in a practical sense. Appropriations as given to your mother are for those who do not live the life of a Sikh. I note you mother is also an Amritdhari so I will dwell on this from a Sikh Perspective.

The following shabad is from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Awsw mhlw 5 ] sUK shj Awndu Gxw hir kIrqnu gwau ] grh invwry siqgurU dy Apxw nwau ]1] bilhwrI gur Awpxy sd sd bil jwau ] gurU ivthu hau vwirAw ijsu imil scu suAwau ]1] rhwau ] sgun Apsgun iqs kau lgih ijsu cIiq n AwvY ] iqsu jmu nyiV n AwveI jo hir pRiB BwvY ]2] puMn dwn jp qp jyqy sB aUpir nwmu ] hir hir rsnw jo jpY iqsu pUrn kwmu ]3] BY ibnsy BRm moh gey ko idsY n bIAw ] nwnk rwKy pwrbRhim iPir dUKu n QIAw ]4]18]120]

Asa Mehla Panjva
-Peace, celestial poise and absolute bliss are obtained, singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises.
-Guru removes the evil influences (Grahas based on Astrological combinations) by Bestowing His Naam ||1||
-Praise be to seed of Naam given to me, I am for ever indebted (in appreciation).
-By meeting the guru my ego has gone, I have realised my real objective. ||1||Pause||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968
-Good omens and bad omens befall only on those who do not remember the Lord (have faith in the Naam)
-The Messenger of Death does not approach those who are pleasing to the Lord God. ||2|| (Those that have full faith and recite the Naam)
-Virtues, donations, austerity (self-mortification) meditation and penance - above all of them is Naam.
-Those who recite Har, Har (The Naam) with their tongue – their issues are resolved. His fears are removed, his doubts and worldly attachments go away; he then sees none other than God.
-Nanak says, if the Supreme Lord preserves himself, then there is no pain or sorrow that can afflict any more. ||4||18||120||

Recite this Shabad by Panjvi Paatshai 11 times every day (am) and ask your mother in-law to do the same. By reciting (NOT CHANTING) and with Gurus grace it will bring the message home to her that her Guru has given her the Antidote for all problems and it is her inadequacy that is the problem. Recite Gurus Shabad with compassion and you problems will be seen to by Guru ji.

We suffer because the “Bank Balance” of our Naam reduces and we do not top it up so often. And more often we do it incorrectly. Our Charge is leaking because our faith has large holes in it. We need to fill these gaps to secceed.

“I will have a word with my mother-in-law about this before we go.”

Do you really think this will help. I very much doubt it. If she is failing to follow here Gurus teaching she will not listen to you either. To give here a reminder of her commitment to our Guru, I suggest you present her with the following Shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Anand Sahib)

jy ko gur qy vymuKu hovY ibnu siqgur mukiq n pwvY ]
jay ko gur tay vaimukh hovai bin satgur mukat na paavai.
One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.
pwvY mukiq n hor QY koeI puChu ibbykIAw jwey ]
paavai mukat na hor thai ko-ee puchhahu bibaykee-aa jaa-ay.
He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.
Anyk jUnI Brim AwvY ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]
anayk joonee bharam aavai vin satgur mukat na paa-ay.
He shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.
iPir mukiq pwey lwig crxI siqgurU sbdu suxwey ]
fir mukat paa-ay laag charnee satguroo sabad sunaa-ay.
But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, reciting the Word of the Shabad.
khY nwnku vIcwir dyKhu ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]22]
kahai naanak veechaar daykhhu vin satgur mukat na paa-ay. ||22||
Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is no liberation. ||22||

I hope the above gives you more food for thought than just confronting you Mother-in-Law without any ammunition.

Guru jis blessings are with you.

Kaur ji, do not ever feel that your bowing to someone will be detrimental to your faith. What is important is “Where does your heart lie” Sikhism is not and external experience. It is like the feeling you have when you give birth to a child. You know there is something happening inside you, the feeling is there all the time. Yet you carry out all the chores of day. That feeling is not affected. So is Sikhism. Feel it the same way. There is God omnipresent inside you just like everyone else. No body can touch in there. No one can temper with a Sikh. So be strong. If you have to bow – no problem become objective. Your feelings should not there – it is only a body doing the act(mechanical act) – by the body that you will leave behind. What is important is not to hurt others feelings. They have the same God presence in them. It is this hurt that will become a “Karam” and haunt you again.

Learn to live Objectively. Life will go on but you are not liable for the consequences. Hence no bad Karmas. I am sure you will understand this. If not then feel free to question.

Samadhi/ Sacred Religious places: What are these places? We will talk about them another time.

May our Gurus Bless you with even more Wisdom.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

MKAUR1981 · #8 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2007, 20:54 PM

WJKK WJKF

Satsri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

I must admit personally I do not believe in grahe and I could never understand why throwing lentils would get rid of it. However doing a charitable act I think is better, what I call daan. I'd rather get a bag of lentils and offer it at the Gurdwara.

My mother-in-law is an Amritdhari but due to her own personal circumstances has faiths in these things (basically when her son was in between life-death).

I only said I would have a word with her before we go, so that we don't have this discussion out there in front of my in-laws.

Quote:

I hope the above gives you more food for thought than just confronting you Mother-in-Law without any ammunition.

I will read the Shabd to her, but I don't think she will listen to me. My mother-in-law is in her 70's. I personally think it would be appreciated coming from another Amritdhari, not a Manmukh like me. Will let you know the outcome....

My problem is that maybe I've taken the meaning of not bowing to anything else but the Guru Granth Sahib a bit too far. But I totally agree with what you are saying

Quote:

God omnipresent inside you just like everyone else.

The way I see it is that as history has it we are his descendants and I am just taking ashrivaad. Thank you Hai Bhi Sach. It really does make sense what your saying.

Maybe we should have a thread on samdhi/sacred/religious places?

P.S Is this you being sarcastic again???

Quote:

May our Gurus Bless you with even more Wisdom.

MKAUR1981 · #9 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2007, 21:03 PM

WJKK WJKF

Satsri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

For the Shabd by Panjvi Patshah, is it possible to have either with the Phonetic transliteration or in Punjabi?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14968

Kind regards

Kind Regards.