Animals and Vegetables

Sandeepc20 · #1 (**permalink**) 21-Dec-2006, 11:40 AM

I usually come across many people who eat meat and say that " if we humans did not eat meat, animals would over-populate the world and cause problems." I think that this is just an excuse, is it? Also, i hear that you cannot get all the nutrients in your body without eating meat which I already know is not true. But even if those statements were true, I still do not find it right that humans eat meat. All this implies that Humans think that they are more superior or more important than animals. I feel very bad for animals as their life is always about suffering and working hard to satisfy this manmade world. They do not get to have a proper family and be with who they want to be. They do not have a choice of how to live or what to do. Humans have already decided their life.
However, my question is on vegetables & plants. A lot of people tell me that plants are the same as animals because they are also living, is this true? I notice that Obviously a plant may have a soul. It is a type of Joon, is it not? i want to have Both a scientific or religious perspective on how plants really feel or think and if it is right for me to believe that plants do not have feelings and are not like animals and humans.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/14746-animals-and-vegetables.html

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navroopsingh · #2 (**permalink**) 21-Dec-2006, 13:00 PM

Sure we all get stubborn, ignorant, and even naive people who think that they are right or just plain don't know what they're talking about. If another person comes up to me and tells me fish isn't meat, ill smack em so hard

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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746

Animals, including fish, all have a nervous system with a centralized centre of command known as a brain, which is sometimes a mere cluster of ganglia. If we take that into consideration, we find that plants and vegetables don't have these nervous systems to feel emotions, pain, or anything because they don't have chemicals or hormones released in their brains to perceive these emotions because they don't even have a brain.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746

They are probably part of the reincarnation cycle but i feel sorry for those who would need to live a life of a four thousand year old tree. Im not too much of an expert on this but im fairly sure that they would be. I'll try to find out more after exams but for now...gotta focus on chemistry

CaliforniaSeeker · #3 (**permalink**) 22-Dec-2006, 03:08 AM

If the only meat that people ate came from hunting, then there might be some truth to the idea that "if we humans did not eat meat, animals would over-populate the world and cause problems." But that's not the case - at least in the Western industrialized nations, almost all the meat consumed comes from animals that have been bred and raised for that purpose only, and that have lived their (short) lives in inhumane, industrial, factory farm settings, crowded in with thousands of others and pumped full of antibiotics and artificial supplements. (Many chickens live their entire lives in cages that are smaller than a standard sheet of paper, and they are often fitted with goggles because they're so crowded that if they can see the other chickens, they peck each other to death; pigs routinely have their tails cut off because otherwise the stress of their existence causes them to bite the other pigs' tails until they bleed; hog farms cause massive amounts of air and water pollution; etc., etc., etc.)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746

I think that everyone who eats meat should be required to slaughter an animal and butcher it themselves at least once a year. Anyone who finds that too distressing would be given a nice vegetarian cookbook.

But then, nobody elected me Dictator of the Universe... and there's already Someone Else in charge.

kds1980 · #4 (**permalink**) 22-Dec-2006, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaSeeker

If the only meat that people ate came from hunting, then there might be some truth to the idea that "if we humans did not eat meat, animals would over-populate the world and cause problems." But that's not the case - at least in the Western industrialized nations, almost all the meat consumed comes from animals that have been bred and raised for that purpose only, and that have lived their (short) lives in inhumane, industrial, factory farm settings, crowded in with thousands of others and pumped full of antibiotics and artificial supplements. (Many chickens live their entire lives in cages that are smaller than a standard sheet of paper, and they are often fitted with goggles because they're so crowded that if they can see the other chickens, they peck each other to death; pigs routinely have their tails cut off because otherwise the stress of their existence causes them to bite the other pigs' tails until they bleed; hog farms cause massive amounts of air and water pollution; etc., etc., etc.)

I think that everyone who eats meat should be required to slaughter an animal and butcher it themselves at least once a year. Anyone who finds that too distressing would be given a nice vegetarian cookbook.

But then, nobody elected me Dictator of the Universe... and there's already Someone Else in charge.

the above arguement is also applicable for milk industry.but i have hardly seen any veggie who is ready to give up milk and milk products.

Milk Sucks!

Truth · #5 (**permalink**) 26-Dec-2006, 13:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeepc20

However, my question is on vegetables & plants. A lot of people tell me that plants are the same as animals because they are also living, is this true? I notice that Obviously a plant may have a soul. It is a type of Joon, is it not? i want to have Both a scientific or religious perspective on how plants really feel or think and if it is right for me to believe that plants do not have feelings and are not like animals and humans.

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Here are the facts:

There is karmic value in every kind of thing we use in this world.
Lower life forms have a lower price to pay. Plants have a lower spiritual price than animal life forms.
Fruits and vegetables are spiritually cheap and they can make you spiritually and physically strong.
Higher life-forms(animals) are expensive - and you will have to pay a higher price.

The fruit is a bait for the animal to do a function that the plant desires. If you look at fruit that is ripe the colors tell you so wonderfully that it is ripe. A fragrance is also available and when you smell it you enjoy it and even when you remember the smell you feel good. Your heart is also enjoying and your mind and body are at peace.
If you look at an animal that has been killed you will be emotionally affected; your nervous system will be disturbed and you will lose peace; you will not feel good and your heart will be affected by it.

Sikhs are forbidden from eating Halal (Kosher) meat - because halal meat is produced through a particular religious rite and Sikhs should not take part in religious rites apart from the Sikh Reht Maryada (Code of Conduct).

The following thread has a more thorough explanation from a religous view point - http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays...-flesh-14.html

But heres a topic for debate:

The Guru Granth Sahib Ji says, "Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. Who can define what is meat and what is not meat? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian?" (1289)

"None of the grain of corn is without life. To start with, there is life in water, by which all are made green" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 472). Moreover, there is rejection of the idea that one can become polluted by food. 'All food is pure; for God has provided it for our sustenance' (Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 472).

These quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji conflict with what I've been taught about Sikhism. Aren't Sikhs meant to follow a strict vegetarian diet?

kds1980 · #6 (**permalink**) 26-Dec-2006, 15:57 PM

Quote:

These quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji conflict with what I've been taught about Sikhism. Aren't Sikhs meant to follow a strict vegetarian diet?

the propaganda that sikhs should be vegetarian is mainly in western countries.while in india there plenty of sikhs which are non veg.my grandfather was amritdhari and non veg.he lived a simple gursikh life

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 26-Dec-2006, 19:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth

Here are the facts:

There is karmic value in every kind of thing we use in this world.
Lower life forms have a lower price to pay. Plants have a lower spiritual price than animal life forms.
Fruits and vegetables are spiritually cheap and they can make you spiritually and physically strong.
Higher life-forms(animals) are expensive - and you will have to pay a higher price.

The fruit is a bait for the animal to do a function that the plant desires. If you look at fruit that is ripe the colors tell you so wonderfully that it is ripe. A fragrance is also available and when you smell it you enjoy it and even when you remember the smell you feel good. Your heart is also enjoying and your mind and body are at peace.
If you look at an animal that has been killed you will be emotionally affected; your nervous system will be disturbed and you will lose peace; you will not feel good and your heart will be affected by it.

Sikhs are forbidden from eating Halal (Kosher) meat - because halal meat is produced through a particular religious rite and Sikhs should not take part in religious rites apart from the Sikh Reht Maryada (Code of Conduct).

The following thread has a more thorough explanation from a religous view point - http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays...-flesh-14.html

But heres a topic for debate:

The Guru Granth Sahib Ji says, "Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. Who can define what is meat and what is not meat? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian?" (1289)

"None of the grain of corn is without life. To start with, there is life in water, by which all are made green" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 472). Moreover, there is rejection of the idea that one can become polluted by food. 'All food is pure; for God has provided it for our sustenance' (Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 472).

These quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji conflict with what I've been taught about Sikhism. Aren't Sikhs meant to follow a strict vegetarian diet?

You said "FACTS"... by what criteria ?? what is "fact" to you is not to me.
2. You said what GURBANI says "CONFLICTS" what you ahve been"taught" aout Sikhism ?? Boy..who is Your GURU..the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/GURBANI..or whoever taught you about "sikhism" ??

GURBANI and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are CRYSTAL CLEAR..and no conflicts..double talk..ambigous..NOTHING..Just PLAIN FACTS. Once you choose to follow THE TRUE GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ONLY...all conflicts will disappear as SNOW disappaears on the Hot Plate !!

3.Guru nanak ji wrote a Very GRAPHIC SHABAD about how the "SUGAR CANE" SUFFERS !!! surprised ?? Everybody else talks until the cows jump over the moon about ...How the poor pig squeals..how the Rabbit screams..how the Goat bleats..how the Dog wimpers..how the Sheep blares....how the cows moooooo...BUT GURU NANAK JI talks about the Sugar cane....when the Farmer comes...he CUTS MY FEET OFF, throws me to the ground..and ties us up in a bundle and lops off our heads..then we are carried like a heap to the JUICER where our body si so CRUELLY CRUSHED..and then the Juice is BOILED and boiled over a Roaring FIRE....???? Surprised ?? a Sugar cane is supposed to be without a "nervous system..no pain..never screams...docile...and also all such a lOW LIFE...low Karma..etc etc ??? But to GURU Nanak Ji it is an entirely DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ??? surprised ??

Then READ the Shabad of Guru nanak Ji where Guru Ji EXPLAINS it all so clearly...FOOLS WRANGLE OVER MEAT..they dont even KNOW the Basic FACT that SAAG, SUGAR CANE..and MEAT are All the SAME !!! surprsied once more ?? Sure because you chose to follow some Taksali baba..some AKJ Neo Brahmin..some Radha Soami...Namdahree...whatever..EXCEPT GURU NANAK JI !!! You wont be SURPRISED any more...the TRUE FACTS will appear !!

Gyani jarnail Singh.

Truth · #8 (**permalink**) 27-Dec-2006, 04:58 AM

kds1980 could you go into more detail as to why you think this is propaganda -(Sikhs being strict vegetarians)?

"You said "FACTS"... by what criteria ?? what is "fact" to you is not to me.
2. You said what GURBANI says "CONFLICTS" what you ahve been"taught" aout Sikhism ?? Boy..who is Your GURU..the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/GURBANI..or whoever taught you about "sikhism" ??"

My dad (who is amritdhari and a strict vegetarian) has taught me the basics of Sikhism. The rest I have learnt through going to the Gudwara, reading books on Sikhism and carrying out research on the internet.

"GURBANI and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are CRYSTAL CLEAR..and no conflicts..double talk..ambigous..NOTHING..Just PLAIN FACTS. Once you choose to follow THE TRUE GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ONLY...all conflicts will disappear as SNOW disappaears on the Hot Plate !!"

I have been interested in Sikhism from a young age, however there is still a lot for me to learn about my Religion. I recently came across these quotes and have to admit they have really confused me.

Thank you for your post, It has helped clear up some of this confusion, however I still don't fully understand why I keep coming across the same message with the more research I carry out.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746

I am sorry if I offended you, it certainly wasn't my intention. I just needed somebody to explain where Sikhism stands on this issue.

I am still in search of an explanation, a reply would be appreciated to help clear up this confusion (but only if you can do so without being judgmental and defensive.)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14746

"Sure because you chose to follow some Taksali baba..some AKJ Neo Brahmin..some Radha Soami...Namdahree...whatever..EXCEPT GURU NANAK JI !!! You wont be SURPRISED any more...the TRUE FACTS will appear !!"

Who says I follow Taksali Baba, NEO Brahmin, Radha Saomi etc...?
What gives you the right to make this judgement about me, you don't even know me...?!

kds1980 · #9 (**permalink**) 27-Dec-2006, 05:31 AM

Quote:

kds1980 could you go into more detail as to why you think this is propaganda -(Sikhs being strict vegetarians)?

if you want more information regarding non veg in sikhism then please read entire 15 pages of following debate
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays...-flesh-14.html.

there are many knowledgable persons on this site like vijaydeep singh ji,randip singh ji ,gyani jarnail singh ji who can give information to you regarding this issue
gyani jarnail singh ji