Caste System in Sikhism

Harwinder · #37 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 03:51 AM

what action can be taken to stop this any ideas?
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Kanwaljit Singh · #38 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 04:03 AM

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It is very harsh language and seems very judgemental

That seems highly possible. I believe Guru is saying that rather than placing a person up and down based on his wealth, wage or work.. place a person above or below based on his Devotion.

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what action can be taken to stop this any ideas?

Just like place of worship (though Gurudwara is much more than that!), land, water and everything else under this sky has been divided based on caste, counrty etc. Guru Nanak tried to tell the world that all belongs to God. So the place where one was supposed to get over these ideas of ownership is being subjected to such division. Such is the irony of life. Is there a solution? I don't know if staying there and having conflict is OK? I would rather have in midst of ABC ka Gurudwara, XYZ ka Gurudwara a place called Guru Ka Gurudwara :| well Gurudwara was always belonging to Guru. But yes people forgot that.

findingmyway · #39 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit.Singh

That seems highly possible. I believe Guru is saying that rather than placing a person up and down based on his wealth, wage or work.. place a person above or below based on his Devotion.

Who are we to judge devotion? Who are we to judge others? We can only judge ourselves. That is the point of equality and the argument against caste. Changing the goals from caste to devotion seems a bit foolish

Those you call below, I would call more lost....

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #40 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 07:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Seeker9

I have never seen a written description to that effect for any caste in any Gurdwara. However, I have come across "Jatt" Gurdwaras. The discrimination occurs inside and not outside

Ramgharriahs have always emphasised the word Ramgariah in all their Gurdwaras, Associations, Halls, Schools, Socities etc. A Simple Google will bring up hundreds of such all over the world esp in Africa - kenya, uganda etc and today in UK (mainly becasue the kenya/Uganda sikhs all elded up in the UK they brought their ramgariahness with them - i wish they ahd left it behind together with most of their wealth which was robbed by the likes of Idi Amin of Uganda ... The CHIEF rivalry is between the Ramgariahs and Jatts - and now extended to Ravidassis. BUT there is NOT a SINGLE "JATT" Gurdwwara/Association/Society/School etc....these are always Singh Sabha/Khalsa etc...never JATT.( just the name part)
Its true that Discrimination EXISTS..and its INSIDE the Gurdwara.
BUT the MAIN CULPRITS are the widespread Mushrooming of DERAS, SANTS, BABAS, Mahapurshs, Taksaals etc. THESE people are "BACKWARD COMPATIBLE" ( IT lingo !! used most often by Microsoft/IBM etc )...that is they are SANATAN/BRAHMINISED/VEDANTIST/HINDUS MORE than they are SRM SIKHS of Gurbani Base. IT is in the "Jatt" gurdwaras that these mentality people CONTROL that this jatt-neech caste DIVIDE becomes stronger by the day...and this SUITS soem vested Interests very well becasue the more DIVIDED SIKHS are..the weaker they become and easier to DOMINATE...DIVIDE AND RULE...its under this policy that the so called Jatt-Ravidassiah conflict is being kept alive and kicking..by random incidents here and there to keep the fires burning...Everytime the Foires are DOWSED..a new conflict at a new place REIGNITES !! In one Gurdwara..the Nishan Sahib was made the bone of contention. The Tradtional one was REMOVED and replaced by the Har one. OK. The two sides came to a compromise...Lets share the Nishan Sahib..one Vasakhi..Khanda..next vasakhi ..Har. It was well..then suddenly one group said NO WAY...we wnat our Nishan for ever. Compromise again..lets have TWO nishan then..one Khanda and beside it the Har one. Peace for a while..Then again one group says NO WAY..we want ONLY OUR Nishan Sahib to remain - the other must be demolished. Its very clear that some one will NOT let a compromise stay. IF thwarted in one village..they just move elsewhere ..and start the fires burning again..
SO SIKHS with the RIGHT Background ( GURBANI BACKGROUND) have to become proactive....and start the FIGHT form HOME..YOURSELF...the SIKHS have to say NO..to DOWRIES, FEMALE FOETUS MURDER, WIFE BEATINGS, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, CASTES, etc etc etc...each forward looking SIKH has to begin with HIMSELF/HERSELF.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #41 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 07:49 AM

The word KAMJaat....has nothing to do with CASTE.....per se....Its a OPPOSITE.
like in Cold...Hot....Black..White...
Jaat - means one with honour..high..dignity..etc.. and Kamjaat is opposite of that..dishonourable..low sans-dignity ( BOTH Jaat and Kamjaat are MENTAL CONDITIONS ) a Jaat person woudl have self esteem high self vlaue..a kamjaat would have no self esteem or low self esteem, feelings of inferiority ...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/14462-caste-system-in-sikhism.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462
Its a CONDITION of the person/self....decided by NAAM or absence of Naam.

KiranSall · #42 (**permalink**) 22-Jul-2011, 07:15 AM

Dear Sekhon,

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462
Well i will have to say everyone is the same they are human and people have no right to judge them. there is no one that is higher or lower in Sikhi everyone is the same. As our guru gobind singh ji demolish the caste system by giving the amrit to "panj piyareya" as they all belong to different castes . In the last i say , sikh should be united by leaving their superiority feeling .We should fight against this caste system . we should start making marriage relations in all castes of sikhs . i believe a sikh boy/girl is allowed to marry anyone whom he/she wants to.

princess kaur · #43 (**permalink**) 30-Jul-2011, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiranSall

Dear Sekhon,

Well i will have to say everyone is the same they are human and people have no right to judge them. there is no one that is higher or lower in Sikhi everyone is the same. As our guru gobind singh ji demolish the caste system by giving the amrit to "panj piyareya" as they all belong to different castes . In the last i say , sikh should be united by leaving their superiority feeling .We should fight against this caste system . we should start making marriage relations in all castes of sikhs . i believe a sikh boy/girl is allowed to marry anyone whom he/she wants to.

dear sekhon,
i agree with u its very difficult situation coz m sailing in the same boat, i dont know what to do and how to convince my parents, and i also believe in what is said in gurbani dont know what to do...

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #44 (**permalink**) 30-Jul-2011, 08:33 AM

What is said in Gurbani/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji actually means absolutley NOTHING to 99% of SIKHS today. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just something one matha teks to and repects by covering ones head and bowing...PERIOD. The Gurbani is what the Gyani Ji/Bhai ji reads out during a diwan/wedding lavaan/bhog etc in a Gurdwara..."cant wit for him to finish..and then collect the karrah and go feast on langgar and go home.."...the words DONT MEAN ANYTHING...they fall like water on a desert dune...disappear as soon as they touch base !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462

On the other hand.."samaaj....society...friends..neighbours..family... pind walleh..braderi walleh..etc etc etc are REAL PEOPLE..who will TALK..who will GOSSIPP...who will point fingers..snigger behind your back...and SIKHS are more worried about these..."LOK Kee kehnnegeh ?? Rishteydaar kee sochanngeh ?? Pind walleh kee gallan karngeh ?? Jattan dee kurree chamaraan deh viah tee ?? Jattan da mundah trakhannah dee kurree liayah ?? Nak dob ke maar deanngeh lok..rishteydaar...pind walleh khnagura maar maar ke ghar de darwajeh aggon langghnegeh...Villagers will cough loudly when passing by your door..Jattee has run off and married a chmaaar boy...Jatt boy has married a tarkhaan carpenter family's daughter..WHAT WILL our relatives say..They will force us to go and DROWN ourselves !!! THIS is REALITY....Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Gurbani is FAR FAR AWAY..safely COVERED up in Silk RUMALAHS ????? who will LISTEN to Gurbani..who CARES what Guru nanak Ji said 500 years ago...who cares what the Panj did or what Guru Gobind Singh did 300 years ago.....its MY JATT SON insisting he wants to marry that chmararee..that Trakhannee..its OUR JATT PRIDE thats going to be put on the line..not Guru nanak !! OR the panj or GGS ??? Its ME that will ahve to face the daily sniggering of my relatives..my neighbours...there goes the Big time Jatt..whose son ran away with a chamaree girl...besharam. ( Its reality that even IF the Jatt son legally married a chamaree in a Gurdwara lavaan and all..everyone will still refer to that marriage as..... "RUN AWAY"...KADDH LIAYEE...Chamaree KAR-LEE !!...NEVER say "married"..meaning the people never accepted that union as HONOURABLE...so YES its a BIG Battle and UPHILL all the WAY....one has to be very brave to fight the River in FLOOD...its much easier to float with the FLOATSAM.......

I KNOW this reality....Because...many YOUNGSTERS who read my posts on SPN and elsewhere..write to me almost daily from all over the world..thinking that with all my Gurbani and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji knowledge...that I Can...'convince" their CASTE RIDDEN Parents to CHANGE...How ?? By writing to them...discussing with them..what Gurbani says..what the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches..etc etc....and I DO..write..beg..plead..write..beg..plead..write..b eg..plead..to NO EFFECT..after all I am also just as "far away" as the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is from them....hence my frustration and sadness at how the Younger generation is being forced into loveless marriages..based on false pride of the older generation...one way streets that lead no where...maybe this is also a result of such...........http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/canada...e-stabbed.html who KNOWS ??? so sad.

rajabandai · #45 (**permalink**) 09-Dec-2011, 14:54 PM

Giani jee - sekhon has asked a simple thing - who is superior a jatt or ramgharia - answer is simple - in sikhism any person nearer to GURU is superior in hinduism any person donating more to to my own caste-yes i am a brahmin- hypocrite greedy pandit is superior