Caste System in Sikhism

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Sekhon

Caste's SHOULD NOT be issue in Sikhism. However, I can totally empathise with you. When my parents were looking for a spouse for me it was imperative that he was of the same caste. Then they would consider the other factors.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/14462-caste-system-in-sikhism.html

I knew then that this was wrong, but had no references to show my parents. However, now they realise they were wrong and admit it was nothing more than mere pride and a matter of social class.

Please read on the link as it will provide you with quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib and your parents cannot refute this. I don't know how much you "practice" Sikhism (if this is the correct terminology to use), but don't use this particular teaching about Caste etc just to win a battle with your parents. You will be contradicting yourself, if you use the Guru Granth Sahib to show your parents the "correct" belief and then dismiss parts of yourself. Besides your parents won't take you seriously. I'm talking personal experience here. I told my mother-in-law about not consulting a pandit for Janam Kundli as it goes against the beliefs of Sikhism. Her reply...so does drinking and smoking. Yes, looked like a prat!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462


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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462

i doubt this line's sanity...

does my marrying a muslim or hindu girl make me a sinner and not fit for Guruji's blessings??????

if anyone believes in caste system...they are not SIKH!

agreed. as long as you ask for Guru ji's blessing you'll get it.

if you can achieve "ek jot" in a mixed-faith marriage, then i don't think Gurbani speaks against it. (correct me if i'm wrong).

the important thing is that husband and wife share that light, not what caste/colour/religion/nationality they are.

but to be fair, i personally think that if one is a religious sikh, it is easier to achieve "ek jot" when one's spouse is also a religious sikh. but that's my opinion, not gurmat.

Ambi ji
Well said. Keeping faith in caste system is a sheer display of EGO and a complete U turn from Sikhi.

caste system is a total ********..it separates ppl !!

that's why it's not allowed in sikhi..sikhi believs in equality !!

The Sikh way of life is about considering all humans equal, regardless of their race, color, class, caste, gender or religion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462

ny1 that wants to belive init.. go ahead !!

that is what you believe. i believe anyone that judges others for not being a true sikh is infact, not a true sikh (my self included).



people take this caste system thing the wrong way. in our society, there is no caste system. jatts (eastern europians), thurkahs (russia/caucus mountians), bhappas (mongolians) are NOT CASTES. these are tribal groups that have stayed intact from when these nomadic tribes moved into the indus river valley. there is nothing wrong with pride in your tribe or people, but unlike a true hindu caste system where the untouchables have no oppertunities, we do not have that.

the pettiness of our caste system is almost like being a yankee fan or a red soxs fan. id never date someone who's a red soxs fan. for you guys accross the pond... its like a manchester united fan mixing it up with a liverpool fan.. .. we have our petty differences, but we are not stopping someone else from living their life, unlike the hindu system.


people.. read an anthropology book!

Could you please tell us source of this research because as far as I know This is not true.There some khatri's who look like jatts while there are jatts who look like khatri's .some girls very fair skinned while other have dark complexion in the same clan so what is the basis of this research.

im too lazy to search the net but im sure you cna find stuff. anthropology is one of my passions so i'll point you twards some books:

H.A.Rose"Glossary of Punjab tribes and Castes."
Veena Das "THE OXFORD INDIA COMPANION TO SOCIOLOGY AND SOCIAL ANTHROPOLOGY"
Morton Klass "Caste: The Emergence of The South Asian Social System"


and in regards to your question of why the physical complexions are not uniform? well my answer may bother you, but please take this simply as scientific and not a slander agains anyone's caste.

when a clan rules an area that has multiple clans in it (ie the river valleys of south asia), the ruling clan would rape the women of the other clans in showing of dominence. this does not have anything to do with pro jatt or anti jatt, it is just the way society functions. plus, jatts were not always the ruling clan (although for a majority or pre and post alexander times, they were).



but for argument sake, lets say all the science is wrong. the gene matching to northern indians to the different parts of the world i mentioned... lets say that is all wrong as well. lets get back to the point... has being a jatt or a bhappa or a khatri ever stopped you from entering a gurdwara, a store, a bus? i doubt it. has being an untouchable ever stopped them from doing the same? you can bet on it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14462

my argument is simple, we do not have a caste system.... just a enthnocentic pride that has been bred into us by generation and generations of our ancestors.

This is really playing down caste and the impact it has on Sikh society. When Sikhs from Panjab form a significant population anywhere, you see the ugliness without the mask. Go back to Punjab in the pinds and you can see some seriously obnoxious behaviour between so called high castes and low castes. The ranges from verbal abuse to physical and sexual abuse (as indicated in your post). The behaviour of many "high castes" reminds one of the behaviour of white supremiscists in Southern America. If people from Sikh backgrounds are content to treat people as pariahs or subhuman than that is a matter of shame. Hide it as much as you want but the truth remains. I don't even want to go into it in too much detail but please open up your eyes.

You have to question the purpose of people still holding onto medieval class structures in the 21st century.

Well our ancestors did lots of things that we shouldn't continue: burning wives, dowry, treating other humans as "untouchables". I think we need to terminate caste discrimination in the same way and for the same reasons i.e. it just doesn't fly in the 21st century. It REALLY shocks me to see people born and raised in the west defend caste - I mean I could understand if you were uneducated from a pind.