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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-Sep-2006, 17:12 PM
drkhalsa's Avatar drkhalsa drkhalsa is offline
 
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Re: Answers?

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Dera Dimitri


You have very rightly said about the situation above .


I would first lik eto mention that fairy tales whether assosiated with any religion does not solve a purpose and if you really like fary tales nothing could be better than Hindudim I knpw it from Personal experience .
All the tales are meant to motivate the people for something bigger and substantial and in the process they can have real Spitual Experience in Present ( NOW!)
All these fairy tales in all the religions talk about some future blissful events whether it is throne of God in seventh Heaven or Sawaraga , or heaven and in reality everything exist in Present .
And this is where gurbani comes into picture as it avoids giving you Fairy tales hopes , No matter how big and beautiful the hope is it nver touches realty.

Now about the question my daer friend asked by our dear Versus are quite relevant and are basic to human Psychqe.

And these questions have been dealt manmy many times repeatedly in Gurbani and in the most beautiful ways.

Gurbani Starts with number I ( one ) and right from the beging it resolves the dilema that there is only one SO no inferior , superior , interseting or boring god and also he is the only one that exist .




The most beautiful defination ever encountered of God happen to be opening part of Guru Granth sahib .

where does the soul come from?
what happens when you die?

what is god?

ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/9132-answers.html
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
ik-oNkaar sat naam kartaa purakh nirbha-o nirvair akaal moorat ajoonee saibhaN gur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~

There is but one God. True is His Name, creative His personality and immortal His form. He is without fear sans enmity, unborn and self-illumined. By the Guru's grace He is obtained.


is there an end of the world?
where does the world come from?


ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ
कीता पसाउ एको कवाउ ॥
keetaa pasaa-o ayko kavaa-o.
You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word!

ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਏ ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ
तिस ते होए लख दरीआउ ॥
tis tay ho-ay lakh daree-aa-o.
Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow.

ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
कुदरति कवण कहा वीचारु ॥
kudrat kavan kahaa veechaar.
How can Your Creative Potency be described?

ਵਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ
वारिआ न जावा एक वार ॥
vaari-aa na jaavaa ayk vaar.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.

ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ
जो तुधु भावै साई भली कार ॥
jo tuDh bhaavai saa-ee bhalee kaar.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,


People tellin g the fairly tales make it appear that Creator /Akal Purakh ?allh is sitting in the throne in some seveth haven and craetion of this universe seems to be work of it .
While Guru Nanak discribe the creation of this world as such a menial /minimal / small effort as compared to his potency that by just one word he created all this .

Further in the same Bani guru Ji tackles this question of When was this earth created . and clearly says even KATEB( which includes KURAN ) is clue less about this .
Can you really trust such people who tell you that all the faory tail about creation is written in Kuran if even Kuran is clue less.


ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ
कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु ॥
kavan se rutee maahu kavan jit ho-aa aakaar.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?

ਵੇਲ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ
वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु ॥
vayl na paa-ee-aa pandtee je hovai laykh puraan.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.

ਵਖਤੁ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु ॥
vakhat na paa-i-o kaadee-aa je likhan laykh kuraan.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ
थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई ॥
thit vaar naa jogee jaanai rut maahu naa ko-ee.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.

ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ
जा करता सिरठी कउ साजे आपे जाणै सोई ॥
jaa kartaa sirthee ka-o saajay aapay jaanai so-ee.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.

ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ
किव करि आखा किव सालाही किउ वरनी किव जाणा ॥
kiv kar aakhaa kiv saalaahee ki-o varnee kiv jaanaa.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9132
How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?



Dealin g with the same question Guru Gobind Singh ji Deal sthe same question in evening Prayer in kibXobwc bynqI pwÚ 10 ] cOpeI ]
Kabeo-vaach baent.ee Chaupai


jb audkrK krw krqwrw ]
Jabb ud.karakh kraa Kartaara
j`d prmwqmw audkrK: rcnw dw pswrw, krdw hY,
When the Lord expands His Creation,
pRjw Drq qb dyh Apwrw ]
Par;jaa dh:arat. t.abb d.aeh apaaraa
q`d, quhwfI prjw: lokweI (jIv), keI iksm dI prgt ho jWdI hY[
Then, many types of living beings get created.
jb AwkrK krq ho kbhUM ]
Jabb aakarkh karat. ho kab-hoon:
j`d ikqy AwkrK krdy: sB kuJ imtw idMdy ho,
When You dissolve (Destroy) everything,
qum mY imlq dyh Dr sBhUM ]13]
T.um maae milat. d.eh dh:ar sabhoon:
q`d, swry dyh-DwrI: jIv, quhwfy ivc smw jWdy hn[
Then, all the living beings get absorbed back into You.
jyqy bdn isRsit sB DwrY ]
Jaet.ae bad.an sr;iste sabh dh:aaraae
sMswr ivc ijMny jIv AwauNdy hn,
All the living beings that get created,
Awpu AwpnI bUJ aucwrY ]
Aap aapanee boojh ouchaaraae
hr iek AwpxI smJ Anuswr quhwfy gux gwauNdw hY[
Each one praises You according to its understanding.
qum sBhI qy rhq inrwlm ]
T.um sabh-hee t.ae raht. niraalam
Br, qusIN sB kuJ qoN inrwlm: inrlyp (Al`g), rihMdy ho[
196
But, You stay detached from everything.
jwnq byd Byd Ar Awlm ]14]
Janat. baed bhaed arr aalam
ieh g`l vyd, Byd: gUVH-igAwnI, Aqy Awlm: ivdvwn, jwxdy hn[ (Awlm – ArQ sMswr vI
hY)[
This is known to the Vedas, persons with deep knowledge, and to the scholars.
(Ved – Vedas: ancient religious scriptures of Hindus),
inrMkwr inRibkwr inrlµB ]
Nirankaar Nir;bikaar Nirlan:bh
qusIN SrIr qoN rihq, burweI qoN rihq, inrlMB: Awsry qoN rihq (bymuhqwj), ho[
You are without a form, Pure-Being, and Self-Sufficient (Non-Dependant).
Awid AnIl Anwid AsMB ]
Aad.e aneel anaad.e asan:bh
qusIN SurU qoN ho, rMg rihq (rMg - moh rihq, piv`qr) ho, quhwfy muF dI Kbr nhI, jnm rihq
ho[
You are Primal-Being, free from color (Unattached, Pure-Being), without a
beginning, and without being born (Self-Created).
qw kw mUVH aucwrq Bydw ]
T.aa kaa moor:h; oucharat. bhed.aa
Aqy mUrK auhdy Byd dsdy hn,
And the fools talk of His mysteries,
jw kO Byv n pwvq bydw ]15]
Jaa kaou bhaev na pavat. baed.aa
ik ijsdw Byd vyd nhI pw sky[
Whose secret even the Vedas could not find.



Please Read the full Chaupaee ! This is just part of it .it tackles the above two questionand also your Muslim friends who think they they know all.


Again in the Asaa Di Vaar Guru Nanak JI Tackles the same question again

ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ ॥
आपीन्है आपु साजिओ आपीन्है रचिओ नाउ ॥
aapeenHai aap saaji-o aapeenHai rachi-o naa-o.
He Himself created Himself; He Himself assumed His Name.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 463, Line 4
ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥
दुयी कुदरति साजीऐ करि आसणु डिठो चाउ ॥
duyee kudrat saajee-ai kar aasan ditho chaa-o.
Secondly, He fashioned the creation; seated within the creation, He beholds it with delight.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 463, Line 5
ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ ਤੁਸਿ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
दाता करता आपि तूं तुसि देवहि करहि पसाउ ॥
daataa kartaa aap tooN tus dayveh karahi pasaa-o.
You Yourself are the Giver and the Creator; by Your Pleasure, You bestow Your Mercy.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 463, Line 5
ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣੋਈ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇ ਲੈਸਹਿ ਜਿੰਦੁ ਕਵਾਉ ॥
तूं जाणोई सभसै दे लैसहि जिंदु कवाउ ॥
tooN jaano-ee sabhsai day laisahi jind kavaa-o.
You are the Knower of all; You give life, and take it away again with a word.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 463, Line 5
ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥੧॥
करि आसणु डिठो चाउ ॥१॥
kar aasan ditho chaa-o. ||1||
Seated within the creation, You behold it with delight. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

where does the soul come from?
what happens when you die?


Soul comes from god and essense has the qualities of God himself and in various life forms it gets associate d with egoic action or ego body which make its journey in the creation and it ends with the end of ego and the soul ends up again in to the creator himself

It is the simplest way I could explian you .If you want I could try to write further


Dear Friend I would request do spend some time readinh and understanding Gurbani and surely with Akals Will you appreciate the completeness and Beauty of it !


Thnks


Jatinder Singh





 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-Sep-2006, 01:27 AM
roopsidhu's Avatar roopsidhu roopsidhu is offline
 
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Re: Answers?

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I think Dimitiri is right
We are not discussing the facts like gursikhs in this forum. WE ARE JUST trying to win a point . The discussion in the sense of gurbani is "goshtee"
and for goshtee there are certain ruleswhich are not being followed by many writers.
What is new Raht Mariyada ? Does rehat mariyada keep changing ? who changes it ? For any sikh who is obeying the hukam " guru maniyo granth" Only and the only rehat mariyada is to follow the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If we are still looking for changing rehat mariyadas then we are not following the hukam Guru maniyo granth. Yes one thing is nondisputable and final that Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) is the great truth, great way of life, great master, great study of life and god. Being sikhs its our duty to follow the message of gurbani but does gurbani states that all other religons are wrong? Does gurbani advise us to devide the humanity on religeous or caste basis? Does not gurbani teaches us "ek noor tey sabh jag upjiya, Kaun Bhaley kaun mandey" ? Then how we can say that other religons are wrong or other persons are wrong. Gurbani is totally against creating the religeous boundries. Gurbani is all about betterment of the entire society and Naam Simran. Gurbani is all about creation of a better society like " begam pura sehar ko nao, dookh andoh nahi tis thaao". Our discussions in these forums should be to unite the humanity, not to divide the humanity. Gurbani advises us not to give the wounds but to heal the wounds. Lets be true sikhs and start thinking like sikhi way.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9132
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=9132
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