Lying?

Sikhism teaches us to help others if we can. What if we can help someone but only by lying? Is this wrong? I have a feeling it is but i'm just looking for some clarification.
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Gurfateh

All is lie but God only is True.

The thing is, in order to help others you got to have love for yourself first.

Theres no point in doing good for others if you dont have love for yourself, because then your not actually willing to help them, your just doing it for yourself!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8831-lying.html

There is a time where you need to lie, and there is a time where you dont have to. Ofcourse it depends on the situation. As the people in this world may not be perfect, you have to sometimes defend yourself for good reasons, and then lying about something may be necessary but as long as you do it in love.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8831

When you help others you cant have fear in them and do it. It depends on how much love you have for god it is necessary.

There was a time for such things, like to help others. Ofcourse we should help others, and the human life was meant to be exactly what sikhism teaches, but we have to make a few adjustments to protect ourselves.

Again it all counts on if you feel god wants you to lie or help others. It depends on god.

Respected Anoop Ji,

Lying comes in when we are unable to accept God's Will. We think that by hiding the truth we can save a person or ourselves from agony/sadness/punishment/and so on...

Try something next time you are urged to lie(may be to please someone or some other reason)- Stay quite and leave everything to God. See what happens.


Just a suggestion.

Don't lie for malice. That's obviously wrong.

But if it is to help someone, then of course it needs to be done.

See, this is where just reading books written by others on morality and spirituality gets one stuck. You can forget that you actually have a brain as well

Respected MAX314,

Lying is the most direct offence against the truth. IT MEANS YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD THE REAL MEANING OF EKOMKAR.
Others loose belief over those who lie.
Having a brain does not mean you should misuse it.
Gravity of the offence may vary depending on the circumstances and intentions of the lier, but offence is offence.
Forgive me if I hurt your beliefs.

Don't worry, I'm hard to offend
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8831

What about the classic example of the man/woman who is running away from someone who intends to kill them and seeks shelter in your house? The pursuer comes to your door and asks if anyone has come to you asking for help.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8831

Do you say "I understand Ek Onkar, and so I will confess that the person is here"? Or do you say, "no sir, I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about...now, get off my porch"?

'Truth' or 'untruth' is not what we say. It is the condition of what is.

You know what I will do, I will fight for them, and do justice to them, I would not lie, neither will hide away.

I believe in responding to the situation. Take care of the problem right then and there with whatever insight i have at the moment.

Let us talk about the chances here If a i lie:

If the persuer has seen them already walking into my house: chances are he will do anything to break into my house. What i gain from lying, get my house damaged, of course if i am lying, i am a coward anyways so will not have enough courage to fight with them after they break in.

If the persuer believes in my lie: 99% chances are he will find the couple later and will hurt them or kill them depending on his intentions. Now what i will gain out of lying, saved my house and my life. Will i be able to live with the guilt anyway? If i am, i am a coward.

Is't this be convenient to take care of the things right away and save them from the tyrany of the persuer? What he will be able to do, the most will kill me, i am not afraid of dying? Death is inevitable. This body has to expire one day. This is God's way, and untill He wants death cannot come. Instead of living like a coward i would like to help the needy with whatever it takes.



Please forgive me if i hurt your beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema This is God's way, and untill He wants death cannot come.

Indeed. But he's also given you the ability to influence your fate. This reminds me of something that once had me in hysterics for a good thirty minutes: truck drivers in India who drive on the most precarious mountain-side roads at night time with no headlights because they believe that whether or not they die is "God's will".

I believe that there is a line between faith and foolishness, between pride and stupidity.

God has given us eyes, ears, mouth and mind. They're not for show. They're to be used.

Quote:

Instead of living like a coward i would like to help the needy with whatever it takes.

"Whatever it takes" would include lying. There is no cowardice in averting danger through use of one's God-given intelligence. Not every battle has to be physical.

Even in a war for justice, killing must be comitted. I think killing a human being is significantly worse than lying to one (and I'd most certainly hope that you do, as well). And yet, the Guru advocated the act of killing and engaging in martial action because of the long-term affect. If he had sat back on his laurels and said "well...ya know...it's all God's will, so let's just keep saying 'waheguru' and see what happens, eh?", then I'm sure the story of India's history would have a far more different face than the one there is today.

(P.S. - When someone poses a highly generic, hypothetical situation like that, it's not there to be dissected...that would kinda be like answering a rhetorical question. It's the underlying message that counts, not the meaningless idiosynchrasies of an event that does not even exist )