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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

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  #559 (permalink)  
Old 07-Jan-2009, 15:57 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

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Guru Piayere Jio...
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Although i feel personally that enough ( more than enough actually) has been said on the subject....and Dr Gurbaksh Singh Ji's articles in the Abstracts of Sikh Studies IOSS make things even clearer....Gurbani is about Attachment..Moh..Lobh...addiction of all kinds.
Now Guru Ji picked "meat" ( and not daal..tandoori roti...Hokkien Mee..Pizza...dahi..lassi..??)..He picked "Gold/Silver" ( and NOT diamonds..rubies..USD..British Pounds.. Euros...Russian Roubles..) ????
I absolutely used to CRAVE..dahi/lassii..mahan dee daal _ i could have these 24/7 for a decade and still not tire or get bored....but just one meal of Fried chicken...and it felt like i have been having chicken for a year.... THAT IS ADDICTION...ATTACHMENT..( i think....and I have worked at it to get rid of it.....and i have finally succeeded....Now i eat what i get..and it could be just behi rootis ( day old rotis) with chah/achaar..or the latest promotion of newest Pizza..BOTH "excite" me as much as a ???? words fail me...
I think I have got the truth in Guru jis Message !!! through personal experiencing of the Truth of Gurbani. DONT BE ATTACHED TO ANYTHING..EXCESSIVELY..EAT TO LIVE AND NOT LIVE TO EAT.
Sikhs today arent much interested in the Truth of Gurbani....see how so many of us are attached to GOLUCK...when Guru Gobind Singh ji has specifically called this POOJA DA DHAAN and ZEHR POISON.....all the fights in Gurdwaras are 100% about GOLUCK/Pooja da dhaan..yet one sees the most "Amrtidharees" in Gurdwaras (SGPC is a point)..All the Medical Jounals scream day and night about the WHITE POISON (SUGAR)..yet most humans happily consume tons of it..and our Gurdwara langgars use tons as well..that is also ADDICTION and is against the teachings of GURU JI..but who cares...??? Moohn Mittha karlo ji....is our culture !!! even though we may become obese//get diabetes..and get our ankles cut off..again i beleive GURBANI should be our GUIDE...even in staying away from SUGAR...
Randip Singh Ji is absolutley right regarding Haak paraya Nanaka us soor us gayeh...THAT is the REAL NO NO NO Sikhs should be preaching agianst. MEAT-VEGE IS A NON-ISSUE. Sadly Haak Praya hardly gets mention...meat seems to excite each and every so called sant/gyani/brahmgyani/raagi.

Sorry for rambling....
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
Gyani jarnail Singh




 
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  #560 (permalink)  
Old 08-Jan-2009, 05:52 AM
Randip Singh's Avatar Randip Singh Randip Singh is offline
 
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Smile Re: Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

Quote:
Originally Posted by pk70 View Post
Is it me or does this shabad not read a little differently now? Reads to me about attachment and greed?(quote Randip Singh Ji)
Randip Singh ji
I thought I made it clear in my PM. I feel eating or not eating meat is one’s own choice; it is not a sin to eat it and by not eating it one doesn’t become pious. This shabad though deals with greed and attachment but very clearly it addresses what special things are that keep us involved in this mess. Again what you are pointing has nothing to do with what I pointed out. Guru ji picked up “meat” as special one like gold, show off, power etc and didn’t pick up an ordinary dish of Daal as a part of this. So promoting both sides to use this Shabad is an error.My question started there and ended there. Even though I cannot swallow it but I do not advocate vegetarianism. As a matter of fact, I am the last person to get involved in "eating or not eating meat debate” Thanks.
Brother this was not meant to be a swipe at you but I wanted to share this essay and its conciseness on this forum.
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  #561 (permalink)  
Old 08-Jan-2009, 08:42 AM
pk70's Avatar pk70 pk70 is offline
 
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Re: Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

Quote:
Originally Posted by randip singh View Post
Brother this was not meant to be a swipe at you but I wanted to share this essay and its conciseness on this forum.

Oops, forgive me for misunderstanding the purpose of your post,You see, brothers are brothers!
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  #562 (permalink)  
Old 08-Apr-2009, 00:28 AM
vsgrewal48895's Avatar vsgrewal48895 vsgrewal48895 is offline
 
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Meat in sikhism

MEAT IN SIKHISM


ABSTRACT


Whether to consume any kind of meat should be a matter of personal preference on the basis of taste etc. It is foolhardy to bring religion into this issue. Guru Nanak has explained it very well: Only God knows what is good and what is bad. Meat has been eaten in all the four ages and has been referred in all religious books. Guru Angad in Raag Ramkali ponders on the life in ocean;

ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਜੀਅ ਖਾਣਾ ਏਹੁ ਕਰੇਇ ॥

Jī▫ā kā āhār jī▫a kẖāṇā ehu kare▫i.

Animals eat other animals; this is what the Akal Purkh has given them as food. -----Guru Angad, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 955-11

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Water is the source of every thing in creation whether vegetation or meat. It quenches thirst and cleanses the body but not consciousness says Guru Nanak in Raag Sarang;

ਪਾਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਧੋਪਈ ਮੁਖਿ ਪੀਤੈ ਤਿਖ ਜਾਇ ॥ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਸਭੁ ਖਾਇ ॥

paanee chit na Dhop-ee mukh peetai tikh jaa-ay, Paanee Pitaa Jagat Kaa Fir Paanee Sabh Khaa-ay.

The consciousness is not washed with water. You drink it to quench your thirst. Water is the father of the world. In the end water destroys it all.-----Guru Nanak Dev, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1240-9

The goodness of food or clothes depends on the purity of heart, as explained by Guru Nanak in Raag Majh and Siri Raag;

ਕਿਆ ਖਾਧੈ ਕਿਆ ਪੈਧੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜਾ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਮੇਵਾ ਕਿਆ ਘਿਉ ਗੁੜੁ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੈਦਾ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

Ki-aa KhaaDhai Ki-aa PaiDhai Ho-ay, Jaa Man Naahee Sachaa So-ay,Kiaa Mayvaa Kiaa Gheo Gurh Mithaa Kiaa Maidaa Kiaa Maas.

What good is consuming delicacies and wearing fine clothes, if the True Akal Purkh does not abide within the mind? What good are fruits, butter, sugar, sweets, flour and meat? -----Guru Nanak, Vaar Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 142-12

ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥

Pahilā sacẖ halāl ḏu¬ė ṯījā kẖair kẖuḏā¬ė.

Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 141- 4

Sabd Guru categorically forbids mind altering substances that have immoral consequences as indicated by Guru Nanak in Siri Raag;

ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥

Baabaa Hor Khaanaa Khusee Khu-aar, Jit Khadhai Tan Peerhai Man Meh Chaleh Vikaar.

O Baba, the pleasures of other foods are false. Eating them, the body is ruined, and wickedness and corruption enter into the mind.-----Guru Nanak, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 16-14

Sikh thought is more concerned with the ethical side of the life rather than physical or material things or Maya. Food of any type makes little difference. What is important is the spiritual part of remembering God, since it enhances spiritual growth. Those not remembering God are heading toward delusion, as described by Guru Nanak in Raag Majh:

ਇਕਿ ਮਾਸਹਾਰੀ ਇਕਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਨਾ ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥ Ik Masaharee Ik TriN Khaaeh, Ikna Chateeh Amnrit Paaeh, Ik MiTee-aa Meh MiTee-aa Khaaeh, Nanak Muthay Jaahi Naahee Man So-ay.

Some eat meat, while others eat grass. Some have all the thirty-six varieties of delicacies, while others live in the dirt and eat mud. O Nanak, those who do not enshrine the Akal Purkh within their minds is deluded. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 144

Here is another Sloke of Mardana in Raag Bihaagrha stressing the spiritual side of life:

ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥

GouN ManDay Kar Seel Gheo Saram Maas Aahaar, Giaan Gourh Salaah ManDay Bhou Maas Aahaar, Nanak Ih Bhojan Sach Hai Sach Naam AaDhaar.

Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat. So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat. O Nanak, this is the true food; let the True Name be your only Support. -----Mardana, Raag Bihaagrha, AGGS, Page, 553-6

Kabir originally was idolater and follower of Ramanand and later became monotheistic and believed in contemplation of Naam. He being under the influence of Vedanta states about 3 things to refrain from including fish;

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥

Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath Barat Naym Keeay Tay Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh.

Kabir, the mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, will all go to hell.-----Bhagat Kabir Slokes # 233, AGGS, Page, 1377-2 & 3

There have been references to the Hukamnama of Guru Har Gobind from the book of Hukamnamas by Dr. Ganda Singh to the effect that the Gurus forbid the eating of meat. This Hukamnama have been annulled by the above references and he him self being a good hunter makes the document erroneous.

Guru Nanak’s Raag Malar is devoted to meat eating. He recited it at Kurkchetar at the festival of solar eclipse while cooking the deer meat, to remove doubts and superstitions about its eating;

ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥

Maasahu Nimmay Maasahu Janmay Ham Maasai Kay Bhaanday, Gi-aan Dhi-aan Kachh Soojhai Naahee Chatur Kahaavai PaaNday.

In the flesh we are conceived and in the flesh we are born -- we are vessels of the flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬਂ*ੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥

Maas PuraaNee Maas Kataybeen Chaoh Jug Maas KamaaNaa, PaanDay Too JaaNai Hee Naahee Kithoh Maas Upunnaa, To-i-ahu Ann Kamaad KapaahaaN To-i-ahu Taribhavan Gannaa, Maat Pitaa Kee Rakat Nipannay Machhee Maas Na KhaaNhee, Istaree Purkhai JaaN Nis Maylaa Othai ManDh Kamaahee.

Meat is allowed in the Puraanas and in other Holy books. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. O Pundit, you do not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers who do not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Malaar, AGGS, Page, 1290
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

The complete Sabd translated;

First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh. When he comes alive, his mouth takes flesh; his bones, skin and body are flesh. He comes out of the womb of flesh, and takes a mouthful of flesh at the breast. His mouth is flesh, his tongue is flesh; his breath is in the flesh. He grows up and is married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home. Flesh is produced from flesh; all relatives are made of flesh. When the mortal meets the True Guru, and realizes the Akal Purkh's Command, then he comes to be reformed. Releasing himself, the mortal does not find release; O, Nanak through empty words, one is ruined.

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called a green vegetable? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people?

They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.

All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh. They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in other religious scriptures and the Quran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.

Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven -- look at this injustice. You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pundit, you are very wise indeed. O Pundit, you do not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. Water says, "I am good in many ways." But water takes many forms. Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

Conclusion:

Every material thing develops from water whether meat or vegetable. It is the remembering of God which is important rather than debating unnecessarily the merits of vegetables or of meat. Personal considerations must determine what is good or bad for a person. In AGGS there is no prohibition about eating or cooking meat. Guru Nanak cooked deer meat at the festival of the solar eclipse at Kurchetar to remove doubt and superstition. According to Vedanta philosophy called ahimsa, it is advised to refrain from injuring - physically, mentally or emotionally - anyone or any living creature, which has creped in to Sikh Faith. Guru Arjan in Raag Maru ponders;

ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ ॥

Hak halāl bakẖorahu kẖāṇā.

Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1084-7


Virinder S. Grewal
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  #563 (permalink)  
Old 08-Apr-2009, 03:02 AM
pk70's Avatar pk70 pk70 is offline
 
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Re: Meat in sikhism

Respected VSGREWAL Ji
With all due respect let me point out something in your post that is unacceptable as it is tainted with your own point of views which, not necessarily, be a part of Guru Message. Let me make clear right here to you and non vegetarians SPN members that I am not speaking against meat eating as I believe it is up to the person who wants to be vegetarian or non vegetarian( So keep the swords in the sheaths). My comments and questions are all about the correct usage of Gurbani without inserting our own influenced ideology in it and to see if it really belongs where it is used. By the way I applaud your hard work though.
“Sabd Guru categorically forbids mind altering substances that have immoral consequences as indicated by Guru Nanak in Siri Raag;
ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਖਾਣਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਖਾਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ
Baabaa Hor Khaanaa Khusee Khu-aar, Jit Khadhai Tan Peerhai Man Meh Chaleh Vikaar.
O Baba, the pleasures of other foods are false. Eating them, the body is ruined, and wickedness and corruption enter into the mind.-----Guru Nanak, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 16-14 (quote vsgrewal Ji)
What is the kind of food that makes mind wicked (as per your translation), and what is the food that can cause negativity in the body? Kindly elaborate on that with examples so that Sangat should be aware of that food?

“Here is another Sloke of Mardana in Raag Bihaagrha stressing the spiritual side of life:
ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਨਾਨਕਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
GouN ManDay Kar Seel Gheo Saram Maas Aahaar, Giaan Gourh Salaah ManDay Bhou Maas Aahaar, Nanak Ih Bhojan Sach Hai Sach Naam AaDhaar.
Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat. So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat. O Nanak, this is the true food; let the True Name be your only Support. -----Mardana, Raag Bihaagrha, AGGS, Page, 553-6”
First of all, this Slok is not written by Mardana, how Mardana could could use “Nanak” word with him, he was never authorized to be “Nanak”, it is addressed to Mardana, secondly it addresses the favorites ( ghee and meat) of people and asking to have virtues like modesty, to gain spiritual wisdom, praise and fear of God, be their real favorites.
Kabir originally was idolater and follower of Ramanand and later became monotheistic and believed in contemplation of Naam. He being under the influence of Vedanta states about 3 things to refrain from including fish;
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ
Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath Barat Naym Keeay Tay Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh.
Kabir, the mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, will all go to hell.-----Bhagat Kabir Slokes # 233, AGGS, Page, 1377-2 & 3(quote VSGREWALJI)
Respected VSGREWAL JI, these are your own views and kindly do not accuse Kabir ji of that what you think. Let’s look at your assumption. Well, if Gurus were not aligned with him, why didn’t they say anything in context of above Vakas of Kabir Ji as they did in other instances to insert their views in case of Kabir ji and Baba Freed Ji(M-3, M-4), who are we to accuse Kabir ji of having influence of Vidanta? Kabir Ji is known to Sikhs as a devotee of one all pervading Almighty and a contributor to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and his past has nothing to do with his bani accepted in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru ji selected this to be a part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Are you asking Sikhs to ignore this Vaak? There is no difference or contradiction between Guru Ji and Bhagatas in context of all subject addressed by them. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So let some have their choice about eating or not eating meat on Kabir Ji’s Vaak too, haven’t you said in your beginning of the post that it is a personal choice. Do we really need to say what you have said to negate Kabir Ji’s thought? Obviously Guru Ji didn’t feel that way! Guru ji asked Bhai Gurdas to keep it there intact. Are you getting me? Kindly don’t get influenced by essays written on Kabir Ji to know him, use the real source to know him and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
Thanks.
Regards
G Singh

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Old 08-Apr-2009, 03:24 AM
vsgrewal48895's Avatar vsgrewal48895 vsgrewal48895 is offline
 
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Re: Meat in sikhism

Dear G Singh Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

The first sloke is meant for those who take foods containing intoxicants whiuch affect the mind should not be used.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

Regarding Mardana I agree with you that it is addressed to Mardana.

Thirdly regarding Kabir it is as I understand it. We can agree to disagree on this reference.

Cordially,

Virinder
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  #565 (permalink)  
Old 08-Apr-2009, 04:09 AM
pk70's Avatar pk70 pk70 is offline
 
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Re: Meat in sikhism

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsgrewal48895 View Post
Dear G Singh Ji,

The first sloke is meant for those who take foods containing intoxicants whiuch affect the mind should not be used.

Regarding Mardana I agree with you that it is addressed to Mardana.

Thirdly regarding Kabir it is as I understand it. We can agree to disagree on this reference.

Cordially,

Virinder
Respected VSGREWAL Ji

I agree, we can agree or disagree. Here what you understand is just what you understand period. I don't think to agree or disagree here but am trying to tell the sangat that you have no support to negate Kabir Ji's thought from Guru Sahib who honored this Vaak to be part of Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Obviously what you understand is not Guru Message.


Regards
G Singh
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  #566 (permalink)  
Old 08-Apr-2009, 05:46 AM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath Barat Naym Keeay Tay Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh.

PK70 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Can you please explain the above salok in english in your own words? What do you understand what Kabir ji is talking about?

Is a Sikh forbidden to do drugs,eat fish and drink alcohol?

Are all 3 things forbidden in Sikhi according to the above Salok?

Shine some Gurmat light on it.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh
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Old 08-Apr-2009, 06:45 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

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1. The First thing to be stressed is that GURBANI in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is chosen by Guru Ji and has His stamp of approval. Thus there is NO SCOPE whatsoever for us sikhs to "reject/doubt/cast any sort of aspersion" on any Bani....that is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...or "double guess" intentions of the Bhagats/ doubt their beleifs.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
I apologise in advance if i have misunderstood/misread anything.

2. "PAST LIFE" has got absolutley NOTHING to do in this aspect and has been REJECTED. Proof of this is
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828
BHAI LEHNNA JI..Devi Bhagt for DECADES....becomes GURU ANGAD.
Bhai Amardass Ji... a REGULAR HINDU who viisted Hindu teeraths for most of his life..Became GURU AMARDASS JI. No one brings up this subject of their "Past Lives" or what they used to be...simply becasue it is Irrelevant. Same goes for the BHAGATS. We are only concerned with the GURBANI that they contributed to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Period.

3. This same "Past Life" ghost has been ressurected to "haunt" us in the case of Guru Gobind Singh Ji/Dushtdaman/etc. We must apply the same Standard. IF the Past Lives of Bhai lehnna Ji and Bhai Amardass Ji, Bhai Jetha Ji are IRRELEVANT ...even while in HUMAN FORM...there is no reason to bother about the "past life" that DIDNT even happen in this WORLD..and Goes against all Gurmatt Norms.
PLease DONT DIGRESS into this as this is just used as an example to illustrate point No. 2 above and no intention to begin discussing dsm garnth etc. Thanks to all.
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