Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

Archived_Member4 · #**532** (**permalink**) 23-Nov-2008, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randip singh

I think this essay may have been based on errors in his Katha! :p

Well you thought wrong. Giani Thakur Singh ji katha is right on this issue.

Randip Singh · #**533** (**permalink**) 23-Nov-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh

Well you thought wrong. Giani Thakur Singh ji katha is right on this issue.

That's your opinion!

You really expect a site that supports the DDT to be unbiased? Why not just say that a Namdharia or Radhaswami site is correct? Even better a Vaishnav site?

Please stay on topic or like previous posts they will be deleted.

Archived_Member4 · #**534** (**permalink**) 23-Nov-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randip singh

That's your opinion!

You really expect a site that supports the DDT to be unbiased? Why not just say that a Namdharia or Radhaswami site is correct? Even better a Vaishnav site?

Please stay on topic or like previous posts they will be deleted.

its on topic, if anything your going off topic with this post of yours.

Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji was from Dam Dam Taksal. What do you say about him??????

So you say Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji and Radhaswami are the same?????

Randip Singh · #**535** (**permalink**) 23-Nov-2008, 18:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh

its on topic, if anything your going off topic with this post of yours.

Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji was from Dam Dam Taksal. What do you say about him??????

So you say Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji and Radhaswami are the same?????

No by posting that propaganda you are going off topic. It has been allowed for now but please stay on topic. Its my duty to point out what is posted from Sikh sects and what is not.

Jarnail Singh ji belonged to a sect. I agreed with him on many points, but on some issues in Sikhism I did not. For example he sat and ate langaar with Nihungs at Darbar Sahib even though they disagreed on many aspects of Sikhism.

For example the Rehat Maryada of the DDT states that you should not harm a black cow? How is that reconciled with Sikhism.

DDT, Namdhari, Radhaswmi are all sects.

BhagatSingh · #**536** (**permalink**) 24-Nov-2008, 00:52 AM

at "Guru Gobind singh ji gave jhatka to this army not to a civil person."

Archived_Member4 · #**537** (**permalink**) 24-Nov-2008, 00:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randip singh

No by posting that propaganda you are going off topic. It has been allowed for now but please stay on topic. Its my duty to point out what is posted from Sikh sects and what is not.

Jarnail Singh ji belonged to a sect. I agreed with him on many points, but on some issues in Sikhism I did not. For example he sat and ate langaar with Nihungs at Darbar Sahib even though they disagreed on many aspects of Sikhism.

For example the Rehat Maryada of the DDT states that you should not harm a black cow? How is that reconciled with Sikhism.

DDT, Namdhari, Radhaswmi are all sects.

I looked through Dam Dami Taksals Rehat and I couldn't find anything that says we shouldn't harm a black cow.

So point this out for us Randip Singh, it would be much appreciated.

kds1980 · #**538** (**permalink**) 24-Nov-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh

I looked through Dam Dami Taksals Rehat and I couldn't find anything that says we shouldn't harm a black cow.

So point this out for us Randip Singh, it would be much appreciated.

It looks like they have updated their rehat

Earlier killing a black cow was written as sin but now it is not

In the 4 kurhits

Halaal was written

Now all meat is a cardinal sin

To prove their point they are intentionally misinterpretting gurbani and putting their own
words in it

"If blood has stained your clothing you say your clothes have become impure.
How can the mind of those who eat meat, drink blood and suck bones become pure?" (Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ Ang 140)

Damdami Taksaal Online Website - Rehat Maryada

while the original quote is
If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted.

ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
जो रतु पीवहि माणसा तिन किउ निरमलु चीतु ॥
Jo raṯ pīvėh māṇsā ṯin ki▫o nirmal cẖīṯ.
Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure?

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥
नानक नाउ खुदाइ का दिलि हछै मुखि लेहु ॥
Nānak nā▫o kẖuḏā▫e kā ḏil hacẖẖai mukẖ leho.
O Nanak, chant the Name of God, with heart-felt devotion.

ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
अवरि दिवाजे दुनी के झूठे अमल करेहु ॥१॥
Avar ḏivāje ḏunī ke jẖūṯẖe amal karehu. ||1||
Everything else is just a pompous worldly show, and the practice of false deeds. ||1||

I still remember that couple of years back I have debate with taksali singh on sikhsangat and he himself admitted that it could be a mistake.But Not It is clear that they are intentionally misusing gurbani to prove their point

Btw I don't agree with Randip singh's point that taksali's are like radhaswami's because we should put all those sects in one bracket who beleive Guru granth sahib as its guru while others should put in another bracket

But still In My eyes taksal is just an another sect with its own agenda

kds1980 · #**539** (**permalink**) 24-Nov-2008, 01:59 AM

Btw here is quote from old rehat

The Voice of Sikh Youth > Rehat

1. Tobacco users
People who smoke or use any form of tobacco (or drugs) are not to be associated with.

2. Female Infanticide
Those who kill their daughters at birth:

bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kM\kw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ]
iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw ABmwnu ]
“The following are all major sins:
a) Killing a Brahmgyani,
b) Killing a black cow
c) Killing or selling your daughter,
d) Eating from a person who has no moral discipline. Anyone who commits any of these has committed thousands of sins and this egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ Ang 1413)

Randip Singh · #**540** (**permalink**) 24-Nov-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh

I looked through Dam Dami Taksals Rehat and I couldn't find anything that says we shouldn't harm a black cow.

So point this out for us Randip Singh, it would be much appreciated.

Here:

Damdami Taksaal Online Website - Rehat Maryada

and on top of that they have MIS-translated Bani and misunderstood it. They have tried to twist Bani by saying:

Killing a Brahmgyani, killing a cow46, killing or selling your daughter,
And eating from a person who has no moral discipline.
Anyone who commits any of these sins has committed thousands of sins,
This egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ Ang 1413)

Here is what Bani actually says:

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੩
सलोक महला ३
Salok mėhlā 3
Shalok, Third Mehl:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaŉkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਅਭਿਆਗਤ ਏਹ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਭਰਮੁ ॥
अभिआगत एह न आखीअहि जिन कै मन महि भरमु ॥
Abẖi▫āgaṯ eh na ākẖī▫ahi jin kai man mėh bẖaram.
Do not call the wandering beggars holy men, if their minds are filled with doubt.

ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਤੇਹੋ ਜੇਹਾ ਧਰਮੁ ॥੧॥
तिन के दिते नानका तेहो जेहा धरमु ॥१॥
Ŧin ke ḏiṯe nānkā ṯeho jehā ḏẖaram. ||1||
Whoever gives to them, O Nanak, earns the same sort of merit. ||1||

ਅਭੈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਭੀਖਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
अभै निरंजन परम पदु ता का भीखकु होइ ॥
Abẖai niranjan param paḏ ṯā kā bẖīkẖak ho▫e.
One who begs for the supreme status of the Fearless and Immaculate Lord -

ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਇ ॥੨॥
तिस का भोजनु नानका विरला पाए कोइ ॥२॥
Ŧis kā bẖojan nānkā virlā pā▫e ko▫e. ||2||
how rare are those who have the opportunity, O Nanak, to give food to such a person. ||2||

ਹੋਵਾ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਵੇਦ ਪੜਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਚਾਰਿ ॥
होवा पंडितु जोतकी वेद पड़ा मुखि चारि ॥
Hovā pandiṯ joṯkī veḏ paṛā mukẖ cẖār.
If I were a religious scholar, an astrologer, or one who could recite the four Vedas,

ਨਵਾ ਖੰਡਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਣੀਆ ਅਪਨੇ ਚਜ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥੩॥
नवा खंडा विचि जाणीआ अपने चज वीचार ॥३॥
Navā kẖanda vicẖ jāṇī▫ā apne cẖaj vīcẖār. ||3||
I could be famous throughout the nine regions of the earth, for my wisdom and thoughtful contemplation. ||3||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਕੈਲੀ ਘਾਤੁ ਕੰਞਕਾ ਅਣਚਾਰੀ ਕਾ ਧਾਨੁ ॥
ब्रहमण कैली घातु कंञका अणचारी का धानु ॥
Barahmaṇ kailī gẖāṯ kañkā aṇcẖārī kā ḏẖān.
If a Brahmin kills a cow or a female infant, and accepts the offerings of an evil person,

ਫਿਟਕ ਫਿਟਕਾ ਕੋੜੁ ਬਦੀਆ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
फिटक फिटका कोड़ु बदीआ सदा सदा अभिमानु ॥
Fitak fitkā koṛ baḏī▫ā saḏā saḏā abẖimān.
he is cursed with the leprosy of curses and criticism; he is forever and ever filled with egotistical pride.

ਪਾਹਿ ਏਤੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਵੀਸਰਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
पाहि एते जाहि वीसरि नानका इकु नामु ॥
Pāhi eṯe jāhi vīsar nānkā ik nām.
One who forgets the Naam, O Nanak, is covered by countless sins.

ਸਭ ਬੁਧੀ ਜਾਲੀਅਹਿ ਇਕੁ ਰਹੈ ਤਤੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੪॥
सभ बुधी जालीअहि इकु रहै ततु गिआनु ॥४॥
Sabẖ buḏẖī jālī▫ah ik rahai ṯaṯ gi▫ān. ||4||
Let all wisdom be burnt away, except for the essence of spiritual wisdom. ||4||

ਮਾਥੈ ਜੋ ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
माथै जो धुरि लिखिआ सु मेटि न सकै कोइ ॥
Māthai jo ḏẖur likẖi▫ā so met na sakai ko▫e.
No one can erase that primal destiny written upon one's forehead.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੋ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਨਦਰਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥
नानक जो लिखिआ सो वरतदा सो बूझै जिस नो नदरि होइ ॥५॥
Nānak jo likẖi▫ā so varaṯḏā so būjẖai jis no naḏar ho▫e. ||5||
O Nanak, whatever is written there, comes to pass. He alone understands, who is blessed by God's Grace. ||5||

ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਕੂੜੈ ਲਾਲਚਿ ਲਗਿ ॥
जिनी नामु विसारिआ कूड़ै लालचि लगि ॥
Jinī nām visāri▫ā kūrhai lālacẖ lag.
Those who forget the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and become attached to greed and fraud,

ਧੰਧਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਣੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਤਿਸਨਾ ਅਗਿ ॥
धंधा माइआ मोहणी अंतरि तिसना अगि ॥
Ḏẖanḏẖā mā▫i▫ā mohṇī anṯar ṯisnā ag.
are engrossed in the entanglements of Maya the enticer, with the fire of desire within them.

ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਵੇਲਿ ਨ ਤੂੰਬੜੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਠਗੇ ਠਗਿ ॥
जिन्हा वेलि न तू्मबड़ी माइआ ठगे ठगि ॥
Jinĥā vel na ṯūmbṛī mā▫i▫ā ṯẖage ṯẖag.
Those who, like the pumpkin vine, are too stubborn climb the trellis, are cheated by Maya the cheater.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਚਲਾਈਅਹਿ ਨਾ ਮਿਲਹੀ ਵਗਿ ਸਗਿ ॥
मनमुख बंन्हि चलाईअहि ना मिलही वगि सगि ॥
Manmukẖ banėh cẖalā▫ī▫ah nā milhī vag sag.
The self-willed manmukhs are bound and gagged and led away; the dogs do not join the herd of cows.

ਆਪਿ ਭੁਲਾਏ ਭੁਲੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
आपि भुलाए भुलीऐ आपे मेलि मिलाइ ॥
Āp bẖulā▫e bẖulī▫ai āpe mel milā▫e.
The Lord Himself misleads the misguided ones, and He Himself unites them in His Union.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਜੇ ਚਲੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਇ ॥੬॥
नानक गुरमुखि छुटीऐ जे चलै सतिगुर भाइ ॥६॥
Nānak gurmukẖ cẖẖutī▫ai je cẖalai saṯgur bẖā▫e. ||6||
O Nanak, the Gurmukhs are saved; they walk in harmony with the Will of the True Guru. ||6||

ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਣਾ ਭੀ ਸਚਾ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ॥
सालाही सालाहणा भी सचा सालाहि ॥
Sālāhī salāhṇā bẖī sacẖā sālāhi.
I praise the Praiseworthy Lord, and sing the Praises of the True Lord.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਾ ਏਕੁ ਦਰੁ ਬੀਭਾ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਆਹਿ ॥੭॥
नानक सचा एकु दरु बीभा परहरि आहि ॥७॥
Nānak sacẖā ek ḏar bībẖā parhar āhi. ||7||
O Nanak, the One Lord alone is True; stay away from all other doors. ||7||

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਹ ਜਹ ਮੈ ਫਿਰਉ ਤਹ ਤਹ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
नानक जह जह मै फिरउ तह तह साचा सोइ ॥
Nānak jah jah mai fira▫o ṯah ṯah sācẖā so▫e.
O Nanak, wherever I go, I find the True Lord.

ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੮॥
जह देखा तह एकु है गुरमुखि परगटु होइ ॥८॥
Jah ḏekẖā ṯah ek hai gurmukẖ pargat ho▫e. ||8||
Wherever I look, I see the One Lord. He reveals Himself to the Gurmukh. ||8||

ਦੂਖ ਵਿਸਾਰਣੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ਕੋਇ ॥
दूख विसारणु सबदु है जे मंनि वसाए कोइ ॥
Ḏūkẖ visāraṇ sabaḏ hai je man vasā▫e ko▫e.
The Word of the Shabad is the Dispeller of sorrow, if one enshrines it in the mind.

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਕਰਮ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੯॥
गुर किरपा ते मनि वसै करम परापति होइ ॥९॥
Gur kirpā ṯe man vasai karam parāpaṯ ho▫e. ||9||
By Guru's Grace, it dwells in the mind; by God's Mercy, it is obtained. ||9||

ਨਾਨਕ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤੇ ਖਪਿ ਮੁਏ ਖੂਹਣਿ ਲਖ ਅਸੰਖ ॥
नानक हउ हउ करते खपि मुए खूहणि लख असंख ॥
Nānak ha▫o ha▫o karṯe kẖap mu▫e kẖūhaṇ lakẖ asaŉkẖ.
O Nanak, acting in egotism, countless thousands have wasted away to death.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੁ ਉਬਰੇ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਅਲੰਖ ॥੧੦॥
सतिगुर मिले सु उबरे साचै सबदि अलंख ॥१०॥
Saṯgur mile so ubre sācẖai sabaḏ alankẖ. ||10||
Those who meet with the True Guru are saved, through the Shabad, the True Word of the Inscrutable Lord. ||10||

ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਜਨ ਲਾਗਉ ਪਾਇ ॥
जिना सतिगुरु इक मनि सेविआ तिन जन लागउ पाइ ॥
Jinā saṯgur ik man sevi▫ā ṯin jan lāga▫o pā▫e.
Those who serve the True Guru single-mindedly - I fall at the feet of those humble beings.

ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੀ ਭੁਖ ਜਾਇ ॥
गुर सबदी हरि मनि वसै माइआ की भुख जाइ ॥
Gur sabḏī har man vasai mā▫i▫ā kī bẖukẖ jā▫e.
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the Lord abides in the mind, and the hunger for Maya departs.

ਸੇ ਜਨ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਊਜਲੇ ਜਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
से जन निरमल ऊजले जि गुरमुखि नामि समाइ ॥
Se jan nirmal ūjle jė gurmukẖ nām samā▫e.
Immaculate and pure are those humble beings, who, as Gurmukh, merge in the Naam.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਰਿ ਪਤਿਸਾਹੀਆ ਕੂੜੀਆ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ॥੧੧॥
नानक होरि पतिसाहीआ कूड़ीआ नामि रते पातिसाह ॥११॥
Nānak hor paṯisāhī▫ā kūṛī▫ā nām raṯe pāṯisāh. ||11||
O Nanak, other empires are false; they alone are true emperors, who are imbued with the Naam. ||11||

ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ ॥
जिउ पुरखै घरि भगती नारि है अति लोचै भगती भाइ ॥
Ji▫o purkẖai gẖar bẖagṯī nār hai aṯ locẖai bẖagṯī bẖā▫e.
The devoted wife in her husband's home has a great longing to perform loving devotional service to him;

ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
बहु रस सालणे सवारदी खट रस मीठे पाइ ॥
Baho ras sālṇe savārḏī kẖat ras mīṯẖe pā▫e.
she prepares and offers to him all sorts of sweet delicacies and dishes of all flavors.

ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
तिउ बाणी भगत सलाहदे हरि नामै चितु लाइ ॥
Ŧi▫o baṇī bẖagaṯ salāhḏe har nāmai cẖiṯ lā▫e.
In the same way, the devotees praise the Word of the Guru's Bani, and focus their consciousness on the Lord's Name.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਆਗੈ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਸਿਰੁ ਵੇਚਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
मनु तनु धनु आगै राखिआ सिरु वेचिआ गुर आगै जाइ ॥
Man ṯan ḏẖan āgai rākẖi▫ā sir vecẖi▫ā gur āgai jā▫e.
They place mind, body and wealth in offering before the Guru, and sell their heads to Him.

ਭੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਗਤ ਬਹੁ ਲੋਚਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਲੋਚਾ ਪੂਰਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥
भै भगती भगत बहु लोचदे प्रभ लोचा पूरि मिलाइ ॥
Bẖai bẖagṯī bẖagaṯ baho locẖḏe parabẖ locẖā pūr milā▫e.
In the Fear of God, His devotees yearn for His devotional worship; God fulfills their desires, and merges them with Himself.