Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**1054** (**permalink**) 16-May-2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamala

Ahimsa is the true way.

YES..A-HIMSA..not only against all LIFE (including Plant and bacterial/viral etc ) BUT more importantly against Praya Haak, others properties, lands, wives, husbands, intellectual properties (piracy/copying of music films etc ) etc etc etc....AHIMSA AHIMSA and AHIMSA.PERIOD. Then all will be PEACE...A-Him(her)-SA !!

Kanwaljit Singh · #**1055** (**permalink**) 16-May-2012, 08:33 AM

Includes Ahimsa against the insects! I am still not very caring towards those spiders!

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**1056** (**permalink**) 16-May-2012, 12:02 PM

AHimsa against QUE BEATERS...I LOVE it when everyone obeys the RULES...and doesnt try to beat the que...

Randip Singh · #**1057** (**permalink**) 16-May-2012, 20:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamala

Ahimsa is the true way.

...but not the Sikh way!!

Randip Singh · #**1058** (**permalink**) 16-May-2012, 21:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driops

WjkK Wjkf,
Just want to share my expieriences
One day I was in a Cornfield , I just sat there and meditate on the formless one Akal Purakh - I was really in Bliss - I just felt - I cannot describe with words. Maybe I was in unison with God? I dont know and I cant tell you. So I started looking around myself - sitting in media of the Cornfield - and I saw how the Corn was twirled by the wind. I was fascinated - I felt the whole Cornfield each and every corn - I saw live in it - First time I realised it that the corn has live as well - I felt everything around me every sense the earth the grass everything. From this time I realised I am a hypocrite - I am blind. I was just focused on beings that I see with my eyes and hear with my ears... And that was wrong - I realised that the SAME life is in everything - and that made me feel and think... It is the same living I eat for my "food" , the same essence , but it isn´t apparent like the animals... I can´t see it with my "eyes". I felt my self such an hypocrite thinking that I am better than others - eating vegetarian food - but I realised this falsehood... Where does I differ from animals or other (Human) Beinges, what makes me better? Nothing, it is just the understanding/feeling/embracement( I don´t have any word for this ) of the One immaculate formless Creator - I have the One chance - to realise him. This is very deep.
After that I rememberd the Shabad by Guru ji :

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥
ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥
First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!

Page 143 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

And I understood more and more....
Again: I don´t want to change anyone ones dieties or attitue or something else - I just want to share was I experienced.
May Waheguru bless you all.

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!

I've had similar experiences when walking in the hills in Wales. Bani has an interesting attitude to life:

On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the following is written:

ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa. chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. rahaa-o.
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. Pause
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
No one else can do anything at all.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Reading this Shabad one can clearly see that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not attach any particular order to how life is incarnated. Infact it states:

ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

If you were to apply the logic of those that claim spiritually animal life is closer to human, then according to this a rock then becomes an aborted human foetus, then becomes a plant! It is only after this one becomes human. Surely then a plant is a closer form of life to human?

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji only proclaims one life form as being so precious. On page 50 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it states:

sireeraag mehlaa 5 ghar 2.
go-il aa-i-aa go-ilee ki-aa tis damf pasaar.
muhlat punnee chalnaa tooN sampal ghar baar.
har gun gaa-o manaa satgur sayv pi-aar.
ki-aa thorh-rhee baat gumaan. rahaa-o.
jaisay rain paraahunay uth chalsahi parbhaat.
ki-aa tooN rataa girsat si-o sabh fulaa kee baagaat.
mayree mayree ki-aa karahi jin dee-aa so parabh lorh.
sarpar uthee chalnaa chhad jaasee lakh karorh.
lakh cha-oraaseeh bharmati-aa dulabh janam paa-i-o-ay.
naanak naam samaal tooN so din nayrhaa aa-i-o-ay.

Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
The herdsman comes to the pasture lands-what good are his ostentatious displays here?
When your allotted time is up, you must go. Take care of your real hearth and home.
O mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and serve the True Guru with love.
Why do you take pride in trivial matters? Pause
Like an overnight guest, you shall arise and depart in the morning.
Why are you so attached to your household? It is all like flowers in the garden.
Why do you say, "Mine, mine?" Look to God, who has given it to you.
It is certain that you must arise and depart, and leave behind your hundreds of thousands and millions.
Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.
O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near!
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Driops · #**1059** (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2012, 03:18 AM

Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.

Kanwaljit Singh · #**1060** (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2012, 03:37 AM

Personally, I quit meat when I was in Hyderabad which has mostly halal meat. Once my mama mami came and bought mutton biryani in my office cafe. I was ordering some dosa on other counter, and I realized it late that I should have told them what kind of meat it could be. I hope they knew it

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

After that I went back to Delhi, didn't feel like eating meat again. For me, I try to avoid double lifestyles. So I felt ok with the no meat one. Soon it became a habit, which I could maintain even in Canada. Thankfully the west has many more veggie options. Sometimes I miss specific meat dishes. And it is only coz they are well prepared (yes chefs pay more attention to them, haha!) and don't have a veg counterpart.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8828

E.g. palak paneer led to palak chicken but there is no veggie twist to meatball sub! Anyway to each his own. How your life turns out depends on the things life throws at you. Maybe if I didn't go to Hyderabad I would have continued to be a meat eater.

Kanwaljit Singh · #**1061** (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2012, 03:40 AM

Quote:

And that was wrong - I realised that the SAME life is in everything - and that made me feel and think... It is the same living I eat for my "food" , the same essence , but it isn´t apparent like the animals... I can´t see it with my "eyes".

Hmm the only naturally offered food by plants are fruits perhaps. They want us to eat their mangos, oranges, apples. And throw away the seeds far and wide. So that they can sprout out new trees. It's like a symbiotic relationship

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**1062** (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driops

Thanks for the answer. Yes, we had similiar experience and thats nice! I have just a small side question: Would you eat Halal? I mean food that is already slaughtered Halal? And what about if you eat it accedentaly? I mean the animal is already dead , and suffered pain , should we waste that meat? The prayers are useless on animal we all know. And what is if there is only Halal meat availabe , example: you live in an muslim country? Would you quit?

This question goes to all not only you Randip ji.

HALAL IS BANNED FOR SIKHS. PERIOD.
Are you suggesting that its a LIfe and Death situation ?? That a Sikh must consume halal or DIE ?
Meat is NOT MANDATORY you know...thats the Bottom line..Guru Ji leaves it to us to decide..."WHATEVER...again in BOLD - WHATEVER that is bad for YOUR body, that causes DISCOMFORT..causes bad feelings, bad vibes, bad thoughts...etc etc etc etc...DO NOT CONSUME. Now I find this advise the most consistent, most scientific and most acceptable than any other "diet laws" of any religion. Islam tells you to eat beef from a halal cow...BUT fails to mention BRAIN COW DISEASE....who is responsible for a man getting sick form Brain cow disease after consuming beef form a halal brain-cow infected cow ?? A SIKH is already advised to REFRAIN/AVOID such which causes discomfort allegies etc....hence even a JHATKA cow/sheep/goat/pig/chicken whatever.. is NOT MANDATORY. Mostly a Jhatka was originally recommended and is true even Today is because a JHATKA is personally performed..or in the family house/village..or at least in your presence whereby you can have a look at the animals health etc. IF you CANNOT be sure..then DONT EAT.

2. Milk intolerance..again Gurbani advise is BEST. IF MILK gives you trouble..DONT DRINK MILK. Nothing to do with jhatka or halal...IF WHEAT GLUTTEN causes your stomach to be upset..DONT EAT BREAD..nothing jhatka or halal anywhere !!! IF apple cider vinegar gives you ULCERS..dont use apple cider vinegar..so simple and straightforward....GURBANI IS BEST !!