Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

amarjit singh bamrah · #**937** (**permalink**) 18-Feb-2012, 14:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckysingh

Amarjit ji
I'm not entirely sure that everyone suppports or encourages attachments

Anger and love- I would never have thought that a new born baby has these embedded in it's conscious. I have always thought that a new born is at its most complete innocence and has the physical needs for survival.
.
Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Veerji Satnaam WahegurU ji

The Incarnational Personality, Incarnational BODY & Karma Knotsffice

ffice" />

Before Birth

Once the Core Veil and our first karma knot are created ), we have become an individual being, an incarnational personality. Now, experiences become ‘my history’, and that history conditions ‘my’ consciousness. This is the beginning of our karma and our incarnational journey.
Our incarnational journey occurs through our incarnational body—it is our incarnational vehicle, our vehicle for moving from life to life. But the key is not the vehicle, it is the consciousness of the incarnational personality itself—its ‘karmic mind’—which holds our karmic issues, positions, attitudes, and all our past-life history, and generates personal life experiences from that. It is one of the two major keys to our conditioning. (The other is our genetics, our ancestral history.)
When the incarnational personality incarnates, it comes into the spine and aligns itself with the karmic body (an energetic body in the spine that arises with the physical body and other energetic bodies), once the fetus is developed enough to have a spine.

Although the incarnational personality’s consciousness must be present at conception, it cannot really “embody” until there is a spine.

The spine holds these personalities.

Once embodied, although the incarnational personality looks like a bubble that sits around the body, its core is aligned with the karmic body and all of its history and issues are deeply imprinted there, creating a very thin but very dense line, the length of the spine, extended within the vertical center of the spine. (This is not the kundalini, which is a dense physical energy and is comparatively quite a wide channel.) Our most fundamental karmic issues are held as little “knots” on this line, so we call these knots ’karma knots’.

I can write more of this if its of interest

amarjit

There is only one God, He is Omnipresent.
he is the same who exists in you and me and every particle of creation.

Ambarsaria · #**938** (**permalink**) 18-Feb-2012, 14:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarjit singh bamrah

The Incarnational Personality, Incarnational BODY & Karma Knots

Veer Amarjit singh bamrah ji do you actually care to note the topic of the thread, how others have responded and then post or you post sundry irrespectively! It is quite insulting and counter-productive for the focus of dialog on thread subject. It may be interesting stuff but you need to post it in right threads or start a new thread.

Please be considerate.

Sat Sri Akal.

Randip Singh · #**939** (**permalink**) 19-Feb-2012, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarjit singh bamrah

Veerji

Satnaam waheguru

I presume the Akal Takat makes the rules for others to follow.
Just wondered how they came about the answers?
Did they achieve them through meditation or through the Holy Scriptures.
Did they consult a body of people to come to their decisions?

Its not for me to judge who eats what, I say again, you are welcome to eat what you want.

I speak from my personal experiences through meditation and
practical experiences which the divine has bestowed on me.

To me EGO means Edging God outwards.

I try my best to write with the awareness that the same who God resides in you and others
also resides within myself. Its not for me to criticize any one one.

I still remember the Lesson I was taught about Not judging others lest I be judged.

It appears there a shift of conciousness going on in this thread as it has reached nearly a hundred pages.

This is good its getting everyone thinking, questioning and supporting their own attachments.
We all have attachments some to eating some to gambling some to smoking etc etc.

Many of us have Karmic attachments like anger or love which are downloaded into our conciousness at birth, dependant on our stage of evolution!

Ours is the cycle of Lives, the ''Wheel of Eighty Four'' , the ''Wheel of Births and Deaths''
in which all living beings have been imprisoned for countless ages.

I have no desire to patronize in a superior manner which is what the dictionary states is the meaning of Condescending.
I do not need this Karma.

Satnaam Waheguru

amarjit

(con·de·scend(k

n

d

-s

nd

)
intr.v. con·de·scend·ed, con·de·scend·ing, con·de·scends 1. To descend to the level of one considered inferior; lower oneself. See Synonyms at stoop¹.
2. To deal with people in a patronizingly superior manner.)

Amarjit ji You are doing it again!!! Please stop. We're not children here.

Look basically there are two issues here:
1) One about Sikhis and Bani.
2) One about personal ethics.

The two are not necessarily the same.

If you believe 1) (Bani) says you cannot eat meat then you are plain wrong. Please post the quote from Bani (nowhere else) here that states Sikhs must be vegetarian beyond reproach. Please note do not post that leaflet as it has even got the meaning of basic shabads wrong.

If you are saying you have a 2) personal ethical issue with eating meat then that is a seperate issue.

Furthermore, the argument you are using is one based on Ahimsa and Vashnavite Hinduism is rejected by Sikhi. In fact your average Vashnavite Brahmin actually allows Kshatriyas to eat meat, because they must fight. We Sikhs are Sant and Siphahi i.e. Brahmgyanis and Kshatriya, so again even by Hindu Vashnavite standards the vegetarianism does not apply.

If you still cannot reconcile this I suggest you research your own esteemed ancestor Jassa Singh Ramgaria (Bamrah), who was a devout Amritdhari Sikh who ate meat and fought like a LION!!! What you are saying is actually a slap in the face of your great ancestor.

unbiasedview · #**940** (**permalink**) 24-Mar-2012, 01:00 AM

emotions are a componenent of higher beings,are present in animals and human beings not in plants!if u overlook feelings and emotions ,you are becoming insensitive!if u overlook the cry of an animal when it is being killed,you already suppressed a part of spirituality in you!i would ask why not to eat humans!u would say that would eliminate species!ok agreed,but suppose someone recently died of an accident ,he is still fresh,why to burn or bury him,why not to eat him!i tell you why,because we are sensitive to our species,because we have feelings ,emotions!!next thing which resembles you is an animal!it has emotions like you!when you cut a goat and you find a foetus in its womb,if u can overlook that,then i would say you already have hurdle in your spiritual path! !but jus being veggie doesnt gives u spiritual superiority,there is lot more aspects of it!thats why guru nanak said fools who wrangle over flesh!my take is i would eat flesh only when i dont get anything to eat,because humans being higher species have right to sacrifice lower species for its on survival,!but jus for sake of taste of tongue!im not doing it!so only god knows what is real truth,but one shld follow his heart on this subject and not fight over it!if ur convinced you shld,if not u shldnt!if u keep your sensitivity to an emotion expressing non human species,there are better chances you will remain sensitive to your species.baaki guru nanak di awastha was supreme!ordinary human beings like us are at the first stage of spirituality are affected by such things!after eating heavy meal ppl like us who are so senses driven struggle to concentrate and meat is a heavy meal no doubt!it may not matter at higher awastha but for beginners it does matters!but it is too complex a matter to get to the root of!i think ppl should follow their heart!if u dont have any question marks,you should eat it,if you have ,then you shldnt?

unbiasedview · #**941** (**permalink**) 24-Mar-2012, 01:14 AM

its funny when name of the thread is fool who wrangle over flesh,we still are wrangling over it!guru nanak declared it non issue,we shld not be even discussing it!follow ur heart on it!baaki sikhism is not a religion of rules ,its a relligion of principles!because rules become hackeneyed and outdated from time to time,but principles always hold true!

unbiasedview · #**942** (**permalink**) 24-Mar-2012, 01:20 AM

baaki spirituality is something to be experienced not argued!baaki gurbanis take on meat eating is ,jus overlook this question?its not important!there can be many arguments in its favour or against it,but tht would be just waste of time,because there is no clearcut answer to it!

Randip Singh · #**943** (**permalink**) 24-Mar-2012, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unbiasedview

emotions are a componenent of higher beings,are present in animals and human beings not in plants!if u overlook feelings and emotions ,you are becoming insensitive!if u overlook the cry of an animal when it is being killed,you already suppressed a part of spirituality in you!i would ask why not to eat humans!u would say that would eliminate species!ok agreed,but suppose someone recently died of an accident ,he is still fresh,why to burn or bury him,why not to eat him!i tell you why,because we are sensitive to our species,because we have feelings ,emotions!!next thing which resembles you is an animal!it has emotions like you!when you cut a goat and you find a foetus in its womb,if u can overlook that,then i would say you already have hurdle in your spiritual path! !but jus being veggie doesnt gives u spiritual superiority,there is lot more aspects of it!thats why guru nanak said fools who wrangle over flesh!my take is i would eat flesh only when i dont get anything to eat,because humans being higher species have right to sacrifice lower species for its on survival,!but jus for sake of taste of tongue!im not doing it!so only god knows what is real truth,but one shld follow his heart on this subject and not fight over it!if ur convinced you shld,if not u shldnt!if u keep your sensitivity to an emotion expressing non human species,there are better chances you will remain sensitive to your species.baaki guru nanak di awastha was supreme!ordinary human beings like us are at the first stage of spirituality are affected by such things!after eating heavy meal ppl like us who are so senses driven struggle to concentrate and meat is a heavy meal no doubt!it may not matter at higher awastha but for beginners it does matters!but it is too complex a matter to get to the root of!i think ppl should follow their heart!if u dont have any question marks,you should eat it,if you have ,then you shldnt?

I've never been convinced by the taste of tongue argument, or the spirituality one.

Bani clearly stats (read the very first post) that only human in human life do we truly attain consciousness, and it is that which is precious.

Also, I eat meat occaisionaly to help my training. I don't particularly like the taste. I love my vegetarian food. In fact Indian vegetarian food tastes far better than Indian meat foods.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**944** (**permalink**) 24-Mar-2012, 06:59 AM

IN ACTUAL FACT..all this JEEBH DA SWAAD... Taste..slavery of tonngue..blah blah blah...is all MUMBO JUMBO the FAKE Brahmgyanis. sri 1008's, swamis and rishis etc snats, mahapurashs etc love to ramble on and on about...........GURBANI tells us what the TONGUE should AVOID....and thats...CHUGGHLEE NINDIA..BAD MOUTHING....Thats the "Taste" the Human Tongue absolutely LOVES and is a SLAVE to....another Taste the Tongue loves is LIES...telling LIES...making up fake tales and SWEET TALKING to cheat, defraud.....BLOWING ones OWN TRUMPET is alos another beloved Taste of our TONGUE...Kainchee waang chaldee jabaan...a tongue that WAGS and CUTS like a Sharp KNIFE/SCISSORS.... THIS is the REAL VICE of the TONGUE....and GURBANI has so many examples of these that its UNCOUNTABLE....BUT no one "says" a single word against this VICE..because we ALL LOVE the TASTE....Now who or which baba Ji or sant ji is going to throw the Firts Stone since we all live in GLASS HOUSES....so we throw stones at the poor Goat..the Chicken (Taan kion MURGHHE Mareh..ha ha )..etc etc etc...while TRULY RELISHING in the VICES of the TONGUE....ha ha. ( TRUTH IS A BITTER KAURRA "TASTE"...as everyone knows very well..and the TONGUE HATES BITTER....so why Talk about that..eh ??? better to drag in the Chicken..or the goat and the fish..they cannot SPEAK for themselves..so we speak for them...how spiritual...wah wah.. and Since GURU JI CONDEMNED OPENLY the SWEET TASTE..( which all our tongues LOVE)...we IGNORE That VICE as well....who wouldnt love a barfee melting in his mouth..or amouth watering moto choor laddoo...even iof the nett result is DIABETES...and BP..and Kidney transplant,...and maputations...blindness..who cares..TASTE MATTERS (highly selective )

unbiasedview · #**945** (**permalink**) 25-Mar-2012, 02:23 AM

yes no doubt that it is only human form which can attain complete consciousness!but my point above was as guru nanak has said you cant get to root of this topic,so stop arguing over it!its waste of time!like the argument which i presented above in favour of not eating meat is something i have not found a perfect answer to refute it!but i also know it is not imperative to find answer to it too!but till i dont find a convincing answer to it,iam holding on to my principle!and again its not against guru nanaks bani!it is consistent with it!you just cant get to the root of this question and it is not an important determining factor in your spiritual quest,so just overlook it!but everything god does has scientific explanation to it!i mean nothing is random in gods plan!there is always a sequence in everything that happens in this universe!like body is body is vehicle for souls progression means as our hormonal alignment gets better we tend to use our body more efficiently and our consciousness progresses and we come to know about more spiritual secrets and ultimate stage would be when our bodies hormonal milieu will be in perfect state we will be at supreme consciousness!thats how god is inside us and not in seventh heaven!science jus unreveals mechanisms of god,it is not god!so my question is ,is eating certain kind of food good enough to disturb this hormonal milieu!a spiritually evolved person is too strong to overcome these small hormonal milieu disturbances,but are we who are at the first step of spirituality strong enough to overcome these influences!so thats scientific basis for my apprehension in not eating meat!as long as iam not getting my answer iam holding to my take of not eating meat routinely!and i know iam not disobeying bani in this regard!baaki sikhi is a religion of principles not rules!thats why its has universal appeal!baaki people who present the arguments of fatty acids and multivitamins are being way off track!all the multivitamins and amino acids and fatty acids can be gotton without killing an animal!you have milk and egg for that!the point is there can be umpteenth of arguments in favour and against eating meat!follow ur heart!