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Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 19-03-2008, 05:51 AM
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re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh? >> Share This Topic With Your Friends

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This line of reasoning has always held a faint odour of sickness to me.

Why are numbers a big part, why does it matter if we lose numbers to other races (no such thing as race BTW) or cultures (doesn't that smack of racist attitude?) or even other religons?
This is a matter of Sikh preservation. So no, I'm not in favour of promoting what your saying. It is even more important because certain j.erk societies (read western, certain Christian and Islamic ones) seem hell bent and obsessed in converting others to their views. Sikhs should resist this strongly as they often unwittingly find themselves at the receiving end of this funny business.

Numbers are increasingly important in the political domain and as Sikhism also encompasses miri or worldly concerns we should ensure we have a strong voice. In an expanding (often by force) democratic world it would be plain foolish to ignore this factor.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 19-03-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dalsingh View Post
This is a matter of Sikh preservation. So no, I'm not in favour of promoting what your saying. It is even more important because certain j.erk societies (read western, certain Christian and Islamic ones) seem hell bent and obsessed in converting others to their views. Sikhs should resist this strongly as they often unwittingly find themselves at the receiving end of this funny business.

Numbers are increasingly important in the political domain and as Sikhism also encompasses miri or worldly concerns we should ensure we have a strong voice. In an expanding (often by force) democratic world it would be plain foolish to ignore this factor.
Ohh I understand that your view comes from a perspective of 'Sikh preservation', it is this that I question.

Please don't get me wrong here, but can you answer why it is important that us Sikhs as a group, survive?
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Old 19-03-2008, 08:50 PM
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Nowdays this should be the number one concern if one doesn't find a partner (opposite sex) at the right age.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 01:41 AM
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Ohh I understand that your view comes from a perspective of 'Sikh preservation', it is this that I question.

Please don't get me wrong here, but can you answer why it is important that us Sikhs as a group, survive?
As I have answered a fair few questions, let me ask one. Why is it unimportant that we survive?

But you have highlighted an important issue. In conjunction with striving to gain numerical strength, we also need to ensure successive generations are truly touched by Sikh ethos deeply in their life. As a society we need to develop better disciplined, whole and morally upright Sikhs. Their is no point in trying to increase numbers if the products of our society are not examples of the good philosophy of Sikhism/Sikh history. I know it is normal for people to marry outside of any groupings they belong to. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but in all of this we must never lose sight of self preservation and that is because we should try to embody something worth preserving in this world. We didn't survive annihilation to just disappear. I still think (despite many shortcomings) that Sikhs have much to offer this world.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 10:04 AM
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re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh? >> Share This Topic With Your Friends

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If we go by the spirtual definition of a Sikh - a Sikh will not be able to marry a non-Sikh.

It is just like saying that a Gurmukh marries a Manmukh. However this does not mean that Gurmukh hates a Manmukh - rather a Gurmkuh would influence the Manmukh with his company to become a Gurmukh like himself/herself. Only once the other person has become a Gurmukh can they both marry - otherwise a relationship between both of them is not possible.

I would reccomend you to joing Welcome to Ggs Web Academy! Register Now! and listen to the Katha of Sukhmani sahib. The issue (not marriage), but of relationship between a Gurmukh and worldly people (Manmukh) is ncely explained - I belive it is the 4th/5th or the 6th lesson
I think it is important to remember that, just because someone is not a Sikh does not mean they are manmukh or worldly. It doesn't even mean they are less spiritual than you.

Be careful about judging...

Respectfully,

caroline
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 05:21 PM
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re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh? >> Share This Topic With Your Friends

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Originally Posted by dalsingh View Post
As I have answered a fair few questions, let me ask one. Why is it unimportant that we survive?

But you have highlighted an important issue. In conjunction with striving to gain numerical strength, we also need to ensure successive generations are truly touched by Sikh ethos deeply in their life. As a society we need to develop better disciplined, whole and morally upright Sikhs. Their is no point in trying to increase numbers if the products of our society are not examples of the good philosophy of Sikhism/Sikh history. I know it is normal for people to marry outside of any groupings they belong to. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but in all of this we must never lose sight of self preservation and that is because we should try to embody something worth preserving in this world. We didn't survive annihilation to just disappear. I still think (despite many shortcomings) that Sikhs have much to offer this world.

It's a fair question Dalsingh ji,

Please lert me re-prhase the question slightly in order to answer it.

What is more important, that the Sikh religoin grows and floreshes, or that each of us strive to reach God?

For me personaly I hold as much aligience to the body that we Sikhi, as much as I hold to the body that we may call Christianity. If Guru teaches that there is no Mulsim, and no Hindu, that in fact there are only seekers, then it seems normal that one should follow whatever path one feels most comfatable with(most do so within our cultural hereitage).

Wether the Sikh faith survives, or grows, or changes or doesn't is largey imatterial to me. Much about the world we live in changes, faith, humanity, sciences, all that is except God, and that is where I put my allegiance.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 05:21 PM
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re: Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh? >> Share This Topic With Your Friends

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Originally Posted by carolineislands View Post
I think it is important to remember that, just because someone is not a Sikh does not mean they are manmukh or worldly. It doesn't even mean they are less spiritual than you.

Be careful about judging...

Respectfully,

caroline

Heh indeed, we are are all Manmukh.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 07:46 PM
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It's a fair question Dalsingh ji,

Please lert me re-prhase the question slightly in order to answer it.

What is more important, that the Sikh religoin grows and floreshes, or that each of us strive to reach God?

For me personaly I hold as much aligience to the body that we Sikhi, as much as I hold to the body that we may call Christianity. If Guru teaches that there is no Mulsim, and no Hindu, that in fact there are only seekers, then it seems normal that one should follow whatever path one feels most comfatable with(most do so within our cultural hereitage).

Wether the Sikh faith survives, or grows, or changes or doesn't is largey imatterial to me. Much about the world we live in changes, faith, humanity, sciences, all that is except God, and that is where I put my allegiance.
You asked some important questions. It is important that good people flourish. Sikhi should be producing such people. I see that as one of its core aims. This we must never forget and when we fail to do that, we need to ask questions amongst ourselves. We also should never forget that good people come from all backgrounds, that too I see as a integral Sikh belief and the Sikh Gurus practised and highlighted this with their own lives.

The fact that the Sikhi survival growth is largely immaterial to you should not blind you to the fact that for many it is not immaterial but very important. Never forget that either.


As well as a beautiful philosophy, people like myself are blood descendants of the people who defended this thing against odds that were heavy. Whilst I am in no way suggesting that I am any better than anyone because of this you should understand my feelings towards this subject. I also believe that non Panjabi Sikhs are integral and healthy to Sikhs future.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 08:38 PM
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You asked some important questions. It is important that good people flourish. Sikhi should be producing such people. I see that as one of its core aims. This we must never forget and when we fail to do that, we need to ask questions amongst ourselves. We also should never forget that good people come from all backgrounds, that too I see as a integral Sikh belief and the Sikh Gurus practised and highlighted this with their own lives.

The fact that the Sikhi survival growth is largely immaterial to you should not blind you to the fact that for many it is not immaterial but very important. Never forget that either.


As well as a beautiful philosophy, people like myself are blood descendants of the people who defended this thing against odds that were heavy. Whilst I am in no way suggesting that I am any better than anyone because of this you should understand my feelings towards this subject. I also believe that non Panjabi Sikhs are integral and healthy to Sikhs future.

Ahhhhh people huh!

As I get older I have reached the understanding that God populated the planet with a vast array of differant kinds of people, mentalities and 'mindsets'.

That the human race will eventulay speak with one voice I doubt very much. I revel in the differances, and indeed I owe my stance largely to this fact. We are all differant, and it is right that we should be so. I favour no one group over any other, I understand that others do not feel as I and this too I think is right and proper.

I fully understand if you hold differant ideas, ideals and differant levels of importance to differant things, the rich tapastry of humanity, it's exciting no?
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 20-03-2008, 10:18 PM
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Ahhhhh people huh!

As I get older I have reached the understanding that God populated the planet with a vast array of differant kinds of people, mentalities and 'mindsets'.

That the human race will eventulay speak with one voice I doubt very much. I revel in the differances, and indeed I owe my stance largely to this fact. We are all differant, and it is right that we should be so. I favour no one group over any other, I understand that others do not feel as I and this too I think is right and proper.

I fully understand if you hold differant ideas, ideals and differant levels of importance to differant things, the rich tapastry of humanity, it's exciting no?
Well in light of your comments above I'm really surprised at your earlier post which seemed to indicate that you saw no importance to the survival of Sikhs. The world is richer for having Sikhs, Sikh culture and Sikh history.

One thing we should not ignore is that there are people out there who really seem hell bent on trying to mould everyone into one shape. Be this elements in the western world who view any deviation from their own beliefs as backwards or fundamentalist Islam who deem it Gods duty to convert others. In this light Sikhism offers much thought to the question of a multicultural society and being different and being proud of that.
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