Meditation on God Help

Dear Gursikhs, I really don't know about Baba Nand Singh ji, May he had the Darshan of Waheguru or not. But surely He divided sikhs by giving his points of meditation. Waheguru can be achieved but with pure heart, pure deeds. and this is purely on Akal's selection only, that who willbe the person or persons to achieve that. No debates here can lead us to Sachkhand. Only a true devotee can achieve it. No body who can argue but not understanding other's views cann't achieve it. No brain, no logics no money, not even any material is able to find Waheguru. Find the truth in yourself with the kirpa of SGGSJI maharaj, only the way to achieve Sachkhand.

shs isAwxpw lK hoih q iek n clY nwil ] ikv sicAwrw
hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]



WJKK WJKF

Respected RosethorneJi,

You are right about the fact that no debate is going to take anybody to Sachkhand.

Contemplation of Bani with others is also necessary and fruitful, especially for the ignorant. Otherwise some body can be misled big time by some wrong translators.


About Mahapurakhs, no comments.

__________________
surinder

Sat Sri Akaal Ji.

In short, here are my comments on this topic. If somebody takes interest then maybe we can discuss further.

snavneet: There is no way of meditating on God directly. Godliness is a state that we realize if our meditation is complete and acceptable to God. At the beginning of our spiritual journey, we don't know God at all! Then, how can we meditate on God? Hence, in the beginning we meditate on something that reminds us of God. We may meditate on the Naam, on the Guru, on our breath, etc. The purpose of meditation is to first help us to realize the essence of God within us (Self-realization) and then to realize the same essence in everything else too (God-realization). Meditation ultimately leads us to Samadhi. Samadhi is a state of complete relaxation. In this state, the mind ceases control and what prevails is pure consciousness in full awareness. A state of Union with God, with the whole of existence. Meditation begins with great effort, gradually becomes effortless and ends in effortlessness. It begins with concentration and focus, and ends in the deepest form of relaxation, peace and bliss. In God, we find rest for eternity. Everything that we "do" requires effort and everything that God wills, happens effortlessly. In Union with God, we become like God. Hence, meditation begins with effort and ends in a state of effortlessness.

snavneet: At the shallow end of meditation, you will find many ways and techniques. At the deeper end, you will find that all forms of meditation practiced by people from different spiritual backgrounds, are essentially the same. In Sikhism, the most accepted way to meditate is Sumiran, which involves recitation (Jaap) of the Naam. The journey begins with Jaap and ends in Ajapaa Jaap. Three stages of Jaap are usually identified. One is Oral Jaap, where one may recite any name given to God. It could be Waheguru, Ram, Allah, etc. Oral Jaap helps to pacify the minds processes. As long as our minds control our lives, we cannot reach the state of egolessness, which precedes Union with God. Our minds are the walls that separate us from God. We have to become masters of our minds. Gurbani says, "Man Jeetai Jag Jeet", we have to win over our minds and we will come out winners in life, the whole of existence would be our reward! Oral Jaap is followed by Mindful Jaap. In this stage, the mind co-operates a lot more than in the first one. The Jaap is no longer Oral, but it becomes subtler. The mind does the Jaap. Most of the grosser distractions of the mind vanish when one matures in this stage. The third stage is that of Ajapaa Jaap and this is a gift from the Guru. Here there is no effort put in by the meditator, but yet one hears the Jaap taking place within oneself. One realizes that it had always been there, but was veiled by the processes of the mind. One realizes that this Unstruck Melody of the Ajapaa Jaap pervades the whole of Creation. The Ajapaa Jaap puts us in a state of infinite bliss. This Ajapaa Jaap is the True Name of God, the one given by God. This is the Sat Naam that Gurbani points to. This stage comes to us as Gur-Parsaad, a gift from the Guru, once our effort has matured to its peak, once we are just ripe enough to be plucked by God Himself!

Dear il_sikh ji, we may discuss this in more detail if you wish. Simply put, meditation is a technique that helps us to put our true self (soul) in the driver's seat of our lives. Once this happens, God's Will (Hukam) dawns upon us in its perfect resplendence. Then our minds are no longer in control. We live by God's Will alone.

In this thread, i have seen the sangat debating on the idea of one-pointedness of the mind while practicing meditation et al. Here are my views.
The idea of one-pointed devotion towards the realization of God Union has been mentioned many times in Gurbani, in many different ways. Instead of quoting many lines from Gurbani and mixing up everything, we should take it up, one line at a time, and try to reach a consensus.

For example, take this stanza from Ang 295 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

Guru Arjan Dev Ji tells us,
"Prabh Kee Ustat Karho Sant Meet,
Saavdhaan Ekaagar Cheet."

Simply put, it means,
"Praise the Lord, o saints, o friends,
Beware, do it with one-pointed consciousness."

This same line was taken up and explained beautifully by the late Gyaani Maskeen Singh Ji to elucidate the idea of one-pointed devotion.
Now, anyone who would want to argue about the etymology of the last 3 words in that stanza would try to find new meanings for the words "Ekaagar" and "Cheet". But i am sure, that the meaning cannot be twisted enough to mean anything else. "Ekaagar" definitely means "bringing together into one", "integrating into one", "uniting into a functioning whole", "desegregating", "assembling into one", "fitting together into one" and one can go on and on! But in simple language, it can be termed as 'one-pointedness'. And "Cheet" simply means consciousness. Our mind is the splitting up of our consciousness. So, on the one hand we might be singing praises of God and on the other hand we could be thinking of our business, our family, etc. So, our focus is never on one act or one thought. The Cheet is broken up into a countless pieces. Guruji tells us to put some effort in atleast bringing it together while singing the praises of the Lord. Since ordinary waking consciousness is totally consumed by the mind, which splits the 'Cheet' into many pieces, Guruji warns us (Saavdhaan) to bring together the wandering fragments of our mind and devote them totally to one act, which is that of praising the Lord.

I hope this helps a bit!

__________________
(Japo!)
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Snavneet Ji!

Thanks for the good post.
All songs praising God are melodious but recognizing HIM is the happening and a great blessing.

The explanation given is "The third stage is that of Ajapaa Jaap and this is a gift from the Guru."
May I ask why this third stage is the gift of the Guru?

It continued further "This Ajapaa Jaap is the True Name of God, the one given by God."
Please explain. Is only this Ajapaa Jaap the True Name of God? Where is the place of the Guru during the Ajapaa Jaap?

This explanation is pleasant "Simply put, meditation is a technique that helps us to put our true self (soul) in the driver's seat of our lives. Once this happens, God's Will (Hukam) dawns upon us in its perfect resplendence. Then our minds are no longer in control."
I have a question. Is mind not within God's Hukum before one comes to know a technique of meditation? Please continue this Satsang.

You referred the wonderful Vaak from Guru Arjan Dev Ji from the Sukhmani Sahib.
"Prabh Kee Ustat Karho Sant Meet,
Saavdhaan Ekaagar Cheet." SGGS Ang 295-16

One may appreciate reaching this state of 'Ekaagar Cheet.' True 'Ustat' of Prabh becomes possible.
Some may ask. How does it work? The answer is in the next great Vaak from Gurdev.

"sukhmanee sahj gobind gun naam."
The spontaneous jewel of joy is Gobind's virtuous Naam.

Not once the Gurus have suggested starting with the technique of one-pointedness to discipline the mind.

Ekaagar Cheet is the result of True Simran. Simran is the gift from God through the Guru right from the first stage.

A thirsty person from the first sip recognizes the virtue of water, not from its third sip.


Balbir Singh

Sat Sri Akaal Ji.

I will try to be as simple and concise as possible.

snavneet: Ajapaa Jaap is the sound of Om that resonates throughout existence, within us and without also. Guruji says, "Ek Omkar Satnam". Simply put, it means, "Om is One, it resonates forever, it is the true Name of God". This is where Japji Sahib begins. Once we are fit to hear it, the "Ajapaa Jaap" or "Ek Omkar" requires no effort from the meditator. Once we are ready, we hear it. But the Guru decides whether we are ready or not. A Satguru is someone who lives completely by God's Will (Hukam), so it doesn't matter whether we say that 'it is a gift from the Guru' or 'a gift from God', since the Guru will bestow the blessing of the 'Anhad Dhun of Ek Omkar' only if God wills it. God's will and the Satguru's will are one and the same. Now, let's get closer to your question. Indeed, every bit of progress we make is a gift from God, but we have to make some effort, however tiny, so that we can make progress. This is made clear by Bhai Gurdaas Ji when He tells us the following: "Charan Saran Gur EK PAINDA Jae Chal, Satgur KOT PAINDA aagey hoe laet hai". And this is such a simple and profound statement! You make effort towards your Guru which may be equal to taking 'one step' and He will take '10 million steps' towards you. So, some effort is definitely required from our side, even if it is as small as taking 'one step'. Real progress is made when the Guru takes '10 million steps' towards us. So, our effort may be miniscule, but real progress is made when the Guru comes closer to us. Our role is only to that effect, the role of 'Udham'. At every stage, we make progress only because the Guru finds our tiny bit of effort to be worthwhile. That's the reason why getting salvation without a Satguru may take us ages to realize and very rarely is someone born who is ready to take up this toughest of missions. Imagine how much time it would take for us to reach the door of salvation, if the Guru didn't bring it so close to us with each step. Hence, the importance of a Guru. Anyway, there comes a point in one's spiritual evolution where one reaches 'the door', beyond which one can find salvation. But at that point, we cannot force the door to open for us, how much ever effort we may put in. In fact we have to be infinitely patient at that time. The opening of the door is entirely in the hands of the Guru. Hence, our entry through the door is entirely left to the Guru's judgment. If the Satguru finds us ready for entry, He bestows the blessing upon us so that we may enter. It is entirely left to His discretion. So, in all the previous stages, some of our tiny effort, 'to walk towards the door', may have been involved, but at the final stage, we cannot make any more effort from our side. Guru's Will (Hukam) is entirely responsible for the opening of the door. This door is the Dasvaan Dwaar (Tenth Door) that Gurbani speaks of. Hence, i mentioned that the third stage comes as a gift from the Guru. Balbir ji, i hope i have been able to make it clear for you this time.

snavneet: I think i have already answered this above, but i will add something to what i said before. Guruji says, "Ek Omkar Satnam", which means that, "Om is One, it resonates forever, it is the true Name of God". The word "Satnam" means the "True Name". The word "Ek" before Omkar tells us that there is only "One" true name. The "kar" after "Om" indicates that it resonates forever. And what is that "one true name that resonates forever"? It is "Om". Guruji has already answered your first question in the first 3 words of His Baani. If you don't believe me yet then i request you to meditate on it until the meaning dawns upon you because there is no way to justify this with words. Let it come out of your own experience and then nobody will have to convince you about it. Now, to the other question. The place of the Guru during the Ajapaa Jaap is in God! To be more precise, the Guru is already One with God, He is always in God. How could His place ever change? Once you reach that finality, you will be one with God and Guru too. I think this answers your second question.

snavneet: Everything is within God's Hukam all the time. Salvation is realizing this Hukam in its entirety. What can we add to God's Creation? Whatever we add is simply derived from His raw material. Nothing that we make is made by us. We just manipulate what is already given to us. Consider the principle of conservation of energy. It says that we cannot create or destroy energy. If we can't even do that, what can we do! Since whatever we do is within God's laws, within His system, everything is essentially within His Hukam. But, there is a big 'But' in between! And that 'But' is our mind, our ego, which makes us feel that we can do something apart from what God has already done. This is the root cause of our separation from God, this feeling that we can do something that is beyond God's Hukam. And the Hukam applies to meditation too. When we meditate, we practice it within His Creation using the resources that He has given us. What extra have we added to it? Nothing at all. We try to 'focus our minds', 'sing His praises', 'do Sumiran', 'do Keertan', 'do Paatth', etc. because that is possible within His Hukam. In fact, even the ones who have denied God and salvation entirely, cannot override His Hukam, even though they do not accept its existence. The tiny bit of free will that their drop of a soul can exhibit is spent in denying the Hukam, but their denial does not change the Truth. If i close my eyes and proclaim that the Sun doesn't exist then that won't have any effect on the truth of the Sun's existence. Now, such people just listen to their egos, that's why they are called Manmukhs. And those who are ready to follow what the Guru says are Gurmukhs. Basically, however corrupt one may become, one still cannot override the Hukam. We will always remain within the boundaries of the Hukam. Hence, one is always redeemable. God never loses His patience on us. We may wander for countless lives via our egoistic escapades, but some day our patience will run out and we will turn back and we will find that the Sun was always shining behind our backs.

snavneet: You will have to try to understand something very basic over here. "Ekaagrata" refers to concentration. It refers to focus and one-pointedness. I am sure you agree to that. Your previous reply clearly indicates that you believe that one reaches this state of "Ekaagar Cheet" or "One-pointedness of the mind" through Sumiran and not before that, isn't it? Okay, tell me, in order to achieve anything worthwhile in life, doesn't one have to focus on some thought and then act accordingly? If you are not focused then how will you be able to achieve anything more than what your instinct makes you do? "Ekaagrata" has had a great role to play in whatever you have achieved as a person. The more focused you become on a task, the more is the probability of you becoming successful in achieving the desired result. Imagine where you would be now if you had not focused on your studies or so many other things for that matter. In fact, even instinct can just tell you what to do, in the end some bit of focus is needed from you in order to initiate and then complete the act. Instinct can inform you that your stomach is empty and that you need to eat food. But you may still choose not to eat. Even that needs focus! Because your instinct will keep pressing you for your body's need of food, but to suppress it you will have to focus on the act of suppression! In fact, eating food when one is hungry requires less focus than trying not to eat at that time! My point is that nothing can be achieved in life, without being focused, without being almost one-pointed. And, in this thread we are talking of 'realization of the truth', which is most profound. And you think that truth can be achieved without one-pointedness? Why will the Guru grant you salvation if your mind was thinking of money, family, fame, etc. while your lips were doing Sumiran? Do you think the Guru is counting your utterances of Waheguru to see when you cross some required threshold? Is He interested in numbers or in your devotion? What does it mean to be devoted to one's Guru? Doesn't it mean that one should remain focused on what the Guru says and act according to it? If you cannot be focused ("Ekaagrit") on your Guru's instructions, how will you follow your Guru? How then can you expect the Guru to grant you salvation? Should the Guru grant us salvation even if our minds are wandering the whole world while our lips are uttering "Waheguru" like a machine? In fact, if "Ekaagrata" is something that is achieved as a result of the simple act of Sumiran without one-pointedness then i think machines are better capable than us in doing Sumiran. In fact, computers can do Sumiran without getting distracted. But you know that machines can't realize God simply because they are not conscious, they are not aware! Machines are slaves. They have no choice. They work according to fixed laws. But you have a mind. You can choose between this and that. You can choose to do Keertan while thinking of your bank balance or you can choose to be focused only on the act of Keertan. Which one do you think is better? Isn't being focused on the act of Keertan better? Wouldn't that be more pleasing to the Guru? Wouldn't that make us more worthy of His blessings? This is what Guruji is trying to tell us in such simple language, but still we try to find ways to misunderstand. Guruji simply says, "My dears, when you are doing Sumiran, just make it a point to be focused on it, be devoted to that act, be one-pointed!". Guruji warns us by saying BEWARE (Saavdhaan), if you are not focused then you shall not receive the gift that Guruji mentions in the following couplet, out of which you mentioned only one line to draw your conclusions".

The next two lines from Guruji are as follows:
"Sukhmanee Sahaj Gobind Gunn Naam.
Jis Mann Basai So Hoat Nidhan."

It means,
"The singing of the praises of the Lord (Gobind Gunn) and His Naam are responsible for the Sahaj Avastha, which is the jewel of joy (Sukhmanee).
When the Naam abides in the mind, one becomes a treasure."

Over here, Guruji is pointing to the Sahaj Avastha. And in the following lines of the Ashtpadi (which are not mentioned here), Guruji elaborates on the treasures that such a person receives. What needs to be understood here, is the Sahaj Avastha. It is that state of existence in which the fragmented mind naturally ceases to exist. Our every act is guided by God's Will alone. One reaches a very peaceful state where effort is no longer required. It is a state of complete relaxation, but in complete awareness. No worries remain. All doubts vanish. This is a state beyond one-pointedness. One needed to be one-pointed when the mind was wandering. But now the mind is totally pacified. It only serves as an instrument as long as the realized soul inhabits the body. This is also called the state of no-mind. One ascends into permanent union with God, with His Creation. One realizes true freedom that can never be taken away. I can go on and on talking about this state, there is no end to it. But i hope i have succeeded in conveying the point. Simply put, "Ekaagrata" is needed when there is a mind that is split into many fragments, but when one reaches the Sahaj Avastha no effort is needed any longer. One reaches the simplest yet most profound state of existence. There is no mind left to be integrated. So, there is no need of one-pointedness once Sumiran has done its job. All that remains is Oneness, not one-pointedness. When you see the same ONE, within and without, whom will you point to?! You are that!

snavneet: In short, one-pointedness is not a technique to discipline the mind. Sumiran will do the job of disciplining the mind, of pacifying it and Guruji will bless us with its mastery. But one-pointedness is the least bit of devotion that a Guru expects from His Shishya. If you can't even try to remain focused and one-pointed in your devotion to the Guru then don't expect the Guru to bless you with salvation. And yes, the idea of one-pointed devotion appears many times in Gurbani, the only reason you feel otherwise is that you have understood the idea in the reverse order. Actually, i can provide many examples from Sikh history where one-pointed devotion has marked many great events. But, i will mention those only if the idea still hasn't gotten across to you.

snavneet: Not exactly. "Ekaagar Cheet" in not the final result of True Sumiran. It is supposed to go along with Sumiran. Your focus helps in Sumiran and Sumiran helps in improving focus, so that you could do it better. "Ekaagar Cheet" and "Sumiran" fuel each other. Indeed as you advance, "Ekaagar Cheet" becomes more profound as a result, but there comes a point where "Ekaagar Cheet" is no longer required, when you have crossed over to the other shore. "Ekaagar Cheet" is like a boat that you used to reach the other shore, once you are there will you continue carrying the boat on your head? Would it be required once you have reached your final destination? "Ekaagar Cheet" plus "Sumiran" is capable of taking you to that final state of "effortlessness", where focus will no longer be required. The Guru expects you to try to do Sumiran with an unwavering mind, with an "Ekaagar Cheet", as well as you can, that's all. I think i have explained all this above. Anyway, if your Sumiran is True and is upto its fruition then the Guru will bless you with divine Union. Through this Union, your consciousness (Cheet) will become one with God, Guru and the whole of Creation. Then there shall be no 'other'. You will become the observer, the process of observation and the observed. There will be nothing left to focus upon because you will be in everything. You will become all there is. A finger can point at everything else but it cannot point at itself. If the finger becomes all there is then what will it point at? Where will you point your devotion? You will be in everything!

snavneet: Not exactly. A thirsty person will recognize the virtue of water even if there is no water around him. Then he will make maximum effort to find it. Once found, he will start drinking it and will feel more and more satisfied and ultimately will feel that all his thirst has been quenched and will no longer look for water. The process of looking for water requires focus and attention. If he is really thirsty then while looking for water if he sees a bag full of the most precious jewels, they will mean nothing to him. If his thirst is real then his search for water will be one-pointed. And he will keep looking for it unless he finds it. On similar lines, if we are really thirsty for salvation then our devotion will be one-pointed and if it is not then we will have to wait till our Vairaag (thirst) reaches a point where our entire focus rests on our target. Otherwise, even a little stone lying on the road will distract us. In the Mahabharata, do you think Arjun could have hit the eye of the fish with his arrow while looking at its reflection in the water, if the arrow of his mind was not one-pointed? And when the arrow hit the eye of the fish, was there any need to be one-pointed any longer? After the arrow hit its target, it would just have become a reason to celebrate. Do you think that once you unite with God you will need to be one-pointed on anything? What for? It would be the greatest reason for the most glorious jubilation! In God, you will find infinite peace, bliss, joy and ecstasy for eternity. One-pointedness will have no use for you any longer. It is required before the goal is achieved when you are trying to hit the eye of the fish!

I hope this really helps!
Bhul Chukk Dee Khima Mangdaa Haan.

__________________
(Japo!)
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

One poitedness is all that matters
quote 'Surinder Cheema'


In my experience the most relevant part here is jis paykhat (watching that). The peerless state of mind is the result of it, not the one-pointedness that matters all.
quote balbir singh


sat shri akaal

my love, respect and blessings to all.
I would like to add a few words. very humbly i feel as in terms of doctrine, experience and actualisation I am still onlt scratching the surface.
this topic is amazing and so real. the most useful discussion on this forum
thanks to everyone for their input as it has served to help put things in context at a deeper level for me. thank you sincerley.


regarding one pointedness - bhenji you are completely right it is the secret to success.
if you want to achieve anything in this world it needs this single minded approach.
pure focus with the whole mind in the direction of your dreams and that desire/vision will be manifest. so what ever is desired money, wealth, fame, family, lovers anything for you to suceed it will require single minded focus. so je raab phanna - single minded focus.

beyond this what is as important is SINGLE minded focus with the WHOLE MIND.
this is where what Bhaji balbir says is very important.
In my experience the most relevant part here is jis paykhat (watching that).

opening the mind by a watchful sense - becoming the observer - what is seen, what is heard, what is felt, etc.. will lead us to - let people come to know God first

deepening experinece this with single minded focus to who is doing the seeing, the hearing , the feeling.

when doing gur mantra 'waheguru' with full atention - the mind is directed to look and appreciate the grace that god showers over us.

opening the mind - watching - focuing on gurmantra deeper mind becomes in awe of what is being observed, wow!! how do I see, understanding light and it's properities, waves vibrations wow!!
seeing the first aura from a person,a tree Wow!! seeing the connections in life - the unwritten script - the superstring WOW!! waheguru
listening to the sound, the unstruck melody, the shabd - understanding it's full implications
wow!! getting in tune with hukum WOW!! every realistaion WOW!! waheguru
understanding how we hear - sound waves etc WOW!!
really getting in touch with ourselves,
understanding where the source of the feelings are, how they help create our environment, our ambieince WOW! again understanding the vibrations, chemical reaction that cause us to feel - and changing those VIbrations from our mind we change the reality we experience WOW!! waheguru.
understanding that it's the guru's grace Waheguru
understanding this is the nature of the guru - WA he guru -
this can be only be experinced by observing, listening, feeling, tasting, smelling and then beyond the senses. the biij mantra helps from getting 'lost' when we are going beyond our senses.

understamnding the biij mantra
ekoankarsatnamm keeps our mind from creating new patterns (as it does this very quickly top remain in control)constantly driving us higher and deeper. provides constant upward momentum so that we don't get stuck in maya or even supernatural phenomenon, powers as we experience them or become aware of them.
it states clearly the source of all vibrations (nad - naam) is this primal vibration and it is with this we have single minded focus.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Snavneet Ji!

May I ask where the journey toward God begins? Is this the Naam-Jap or one-pointedness?


Balbir Singh

could it begin in the heart ?

Respected Sadhsangat Ji,

About the begining of the journey toward God:

God is there all the time and He is the closest One that we have(hwQ pY nyry). It is our mind that has created this separation with Him. So we are ever liberated, but just not aware of it. Because
imil mwieAw suriq gvweI.

To end this seperation we have to take the road of faith. So we can say that this journey (to God) starts with our commitment to our Faith. And then with Guru Kirpa-ggn dmwmw bwija.

And all the milestones, turns, and detours on this road are different for different people, based on how committed they are. Unshakable Faith; Self-surrender, Self-discipline; patience; Self-mastery; Intuitive Wisdom; Self-knowledge; Love of God; Longing for God; practice penance or austerities; Devotion; Love for His Creation; Meditation on Divine Name; Prayers; Control on ever-wandering mind i.e. One-pointededness(my favourite one)....., all are suggested by Guru Ji over and over again as these lead us to our real destination.


Mostly it is thought that there is some easy A.B.C..... for union with God, that is similar for everyone. It is a war that an aspirant has to fight inside. It cannot be the same for all.


This is the reason, realization of the Self cannot be gifted from one to another like sharing some empirical knowledge. It is a fight that one has to fight alone. It has to be realized by each individual for himself/herself with Guru Kirpa.

__________________
surinder