Who is a Gurmukh and Manmukh ?

Neutral Singh · #1 (**permalink**) 19-Aug-2004, 22:56 PM

Okkkkkkkk. Take it easy !!

Someone said that according to Islam...

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab is not superior over a non Arab nor a non Arab is superior over an Arab; also a white is not superior over a black nor a black is superior over a white except by piety and good action."

We all stand equal. But a non believer is not the same as a believer...

Ok !!

Now, I also reffered a Gurbani Verse ...

Avval Allah Noor Upaya, Kudrat Kae Sabb Bandae,
Aek Noor Tae Sab Jag Upjaeya, Kon Palae Ko Mandae ||

Now, one of my newly found friends in another forum described this concept like this... I am reproducing it in its entirity...

Quote:

The verse quoted by sikhphilosophy from Adi Guru Granth Sahib refers to the fact that we are all in essence bearers of what Goether would call "der goetliche Funken". As such when we came into existence we were all pure.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji explains in his Sukhmani Sahib that this world was created for the remembrance of the Divine. As souls wandering in this world our final aim is to return to the Divine (we come from God and we return to God). In order to do so dhikr/simran of the Divine is necessary: it is what defines our lives. We can either turn our faces towards the Divine (gurmukh/mu'min) or we can refuse to look in that direction and worship the world (manmukh/*****).

In the Sikh perspective all those, irrespective of their religion, whose life has remembrance of the Divine as their qibla are gurmukhs/mu'min. Those who chose to refuse God's call of love (manmukh/*****) create suffering for themselves.

Another way of interpreting this verse is to apply this to those beings who have emerged out of Allah's Nur i.e. prophets, imams, avatars, Gurus etc..
It is SIkh doctrine that all the Sikh Gurus are one jot/nur/light in ten bodies in the same way as the 14 Masumeen are one light manifested in 14 beings. It is then to be understood for Sikhs as a warning not to place any hierarchy between the 10 Gurus. For Shi'as this would mean that the 14 Masumeen should be viewed as such. But then again each one of the Gurus/Imams had a different function. That is precisely why one should not confuse the concepts of "sameness" and "equality".

Although, it makes sense to me... but still i would like to hear your views...

So, my query is...

Is a Gurmukh in Sikhism a Momin in Islam ?
Is a Manmukh in Sikhism a ***** in Islam ?

Are these concepts really identical ?

Please keep the discussion clean. thanks.

Best Regards

Kandola · #2 (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2004, 16:09 PM

well you decide ji.

gurmukh-one who remembers god and follows the hukam

manmukh-knows what hes doing is wrong, but carries on.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/587-who-is-a-gurmukh-and-manmukh.html

the answer is in the post, monmin is gurmukh, ***** is manmukh. it says in the post ji!

Amarpal · #3 (**permalink**) 23-Sep-2004, 13:14 PM

Dear Members

Gurmukh is one whose thinking, speech and actions are in harmony with one another and with Gurbani as given in Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587

Manmukh is one who lives a life dictated by her/his Maan i.e. desires.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal

Tejwant Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 23-Sep-2004, 20:11 PM

Gurmukh~~~> Tun...Tun...You...You...Your...Yours..( IK ONG KAAR)

Manmukh~~~> Mein..Mein...I, Me, Mine...

Tejwant

Arvind · #5 (**permalink**) 23-Sep-2004, 23:41 PM

Tejwant ji,
Your interpretation of Gurumukh takes me to think towards 'Karta Purakh'. There is only one Karta, and everything belongs to the Karta. tu hi tu, bas tu hi tu, tera hi tera, sab kuch tera...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587

Off-topic: Please help me to locate where on Guru Granth Sahib ji is written about qualities of a good sikh. It goes something like - bhalke utth ke naam dhiaye.

Thanks.

etinder · #6 (**permalink**) 24-Sep-2004, 12:56 PM

yeah i agree with tejvant veerji..i dont there is even a single page in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which doesnt question "haume"and for u arvind veer the quotes goes like this

This Shabad is by Guru Raam Daas Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 305

mÚ 4 ]
gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ]
aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ]
iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]
ijs no dieAwlu hovY myrw suAwmI iqsu gurisK gurU aupdysu suxwvY ]
jnu nwnku DUiV mMgY iqsu gurisK kI jo Awip jpY Avrh nwmu jpwvY ]2]
ma 4 ||
gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae out(h) har naam dhhiaavai ||
oudham karae bhalakae parabhaathee eisanaan karae a(n)mrith sar naavai ||
oupadhaes guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilavikh paap dhokh lehi jaavai ||
fir charrai dhivas gurabaanee gaavai behadhiaa out(h)adhiaa har naam dhhiaavai ||
jo saas giraas dhhiaaeae maeraa har har so gurasikh guroo man bhaavai ||
jis no dhaeiaal hovai maeraa suaamee this gurasikh guroo oupadhaes sunaavai ||
jan naanak dhhoorr ma(n)gai this gurasikh kee jo aap japai avareh naam japaavai ||2||

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587
Fourth Mehl:
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

Arvind · #7 (**permalink**) 24-Sep-2004, 21:12 PM

Thank you etinder ji.

etinder · #8 (**permalink**) 25-Sep-2004, 00:55 AM

always welcome arvind veer

Bharat Vir Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 26-Sep-2004, 18:37 PM

Understanding Gurmukh and Manmukh is very easy and straightforward if you just analyse the words themselves:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=587

Gurmukh is one who follows(obeys)the Guru,
Manmukh is one who follows his/her self (i.e. own mann or ego).