Hindu Aarti In Gurdwara

vijaydeep Singh · #64 (**permalink**) 21-Apr-2006, 22:10 PM

Gurfateh
people may do that ie Saddal with Raja Janak.

As we see that in Kalki Avtar Guru tells that more Kaliyuga gets stronger,We have new religeon in proaximatly each day and that will also surivive only for few hours.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5503-hindu-aarti-in-gurdwara.html
In Kaliyuga we will see more idols in futre and more living Gurus who may try to divide humans.In the case of idols,its worshipper will make some camp.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503

but being A Khalsa one with Akal,like Akal we will be free from time or era and in us Akal can change the era.Four Yugas are for those who worship or have faith in one who are limited by time but our God is timeless.Our guru is timeless.

ceo_nikka · #65 (**permalink**) 08-May-2006, 23:23 PM

I fully agreee with you brother.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
I had similar experience at Takhat Shri Hazoor Sahib. Though I must mention that the whole experience at Shri Hazoor Sahib was quite emotionally enriching.
However this episode, where Poojari Ji was performing aarti with Big Thaal and divas. And then everybody rushing for the Thal. Poojari putting Tikka on foreheads. And then when Poojari is leaving everybody is falling to his feet in presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib, was quite against my understanding of Sikhi.
Thats my very personal view. May be somebody more knowledgeable
can correct my views.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
I have heard similar aarti happens at Shri Patna Sahib. I assume it due to there bramanic influence. Not sure.

Gurfateh
Mandeep Singh

gs_chana · #66 (**permalink**) 09-May-2006, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceo_nikka

I fully agreee with you brother.
I had similar experience at Takhat Shri Hazoor Sahib. Though I must mention that the whole experience at Shri Hazoor Sahib was quite emotionally enriching.
However this episode, where Poojari Ji was performing aarti with Big Thaal and divas. And then everybody rushing for the Thal. Poojari putting Tikka on foreheads. And then when Poojari is leaving everybody is falling to his feet in presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib, was quite against my understanding of Sikhi.
Thats my very personal view. May be somebody more knowledgeable
can correct my views.
I have heard similar aarti happens at Shri Patna Sahib. I assume it due to there bramanic influence. Not sure.

Gurfateh
Mandeep Singh

Well I thank God that some people see the light as it were. I am surprised how this post has turned into pages and pages of unrelated matter...

z...very typical of us I suppose...cant face up to a fact and then have to go on a tangent to hide it all.

People go that the reason why this type of aarti was conducted was for Hindus to come into the Gurdwara Sahib and do their rituals whilst they were under siege by the Moguls...

WELL ARE THERE ANY MOGHULS NOW??

Look...I aint anti-Hindu...but you the sangat know very well that Guruji has acknowledge idol worshipping as being STRICTLY FORBIDDEN...

So, sure we may have done it out of compassion all those centuries ago...but times have changed...our people are being sucked into their empty rituals...because I tell you...GURU GRANTH IS FOR READING...UNDERSTANDING GURUJIs MESSAGE...APPLYING IT TO YOUR LIFE...THEN LIVING A LIFE WHICH WILL MAKE YOU A GURMUKH (god centered person) WHO WILL ATTAIN MUKTEE (salvation. liberation of the soul/what ever you may call it).

BUT WHEN WE CONDUCT THESE EMPTY RITUALS OF CIRCULING Divas...etc..around our GURUJI...we are disobeying GURUJI...because Guruji Explains...NAAM TERO AARTI...NAAM PHOOL MALA...etc..NAAM IS EVERYTHING...IF YOU WISH TO DO POOJA...DO POOJA OF GOD...HOW?? MEDITATION/SIMRAN...ALWAYS..HAR HAR...and although I cannot be said to be a saint...I AM TRYING...and so must others...I AM TRYING TO GO ON THE PATH OF RITEOUSNESS...(sacha marag)...WHICH IS BASICALY THE TRUE SIKHI WAY...NOT THE BRAHMIN WAY or ANY OTHER MISUNDERSTOOD WAY.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say...and please...more discussion as to how we should stop this rather than discussion as to irrelevant matter...NOT SAYING EVERYTHING ON THIS POST HAS BEEN IRRELVANT...IT HAS BEEN VERY INSPIRING TO SEE WHAT THE SANGAT HAVE TO SAY...but please...share you views as to how to remove such evils from our BEAUTIFUL SIKHI...remember...SIKHI IS FINE...THE WAY WE PRACTICE IT HAS GONE SOMEWHAT WRONG...WAKE UP YOUR MINDS...WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE

Sorry for any offence or mistakes

Gurdip Singh Chana

gs_chana · #67 (**permalink**) 09-May-2006, 19:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balbir Singh

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

It is strange that people go on translating Guru's message.

Can we translate Truth?

A translation is another opinion. It leads to duality.

**************

We may understand the Guru's words "NAAM TERO AARTEE...NAAM PHOOL MALA" differently when consciousness grows. For example, "NAAM TERO AARTEE" means your Aartee is Name. Gurudev did not sing "TERO NAAM AARTEE."

Enlivening this state is again THE Truth.

**************

God is not available by doing Aartee or rejecting it.

God is recognizing HIS Will in all activities.

Balbir Singh

WJKWJF

I understand you point that but the thing is why do we keep coming back to this point you have mentioned. Are you justiying ritual worship...APPLY COMMON SENSE...you can see that they do such rituals to GURUJI's shastars and guru granth...IS THAT REASONABLE?? IS THAT JUSTIFIED??

petersg · #68 (**permalink**) 28-Aug-2006, 12:13 PM

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

WJKK, WJKF

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
In Singapore, we have many Sikhs and Sindhis coming to the Gurdwara. The Sindhis who sometimes sponsor the event in the Gurdwara will normally culminate the programme with an Aarti which is done the "Hindu" way. So what should we do? Do we stop them?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
If we ban the event, the Sindhis will just stop coming to the Gurdwara and there is a wedge driven between the Sikhs and the Sindhis. Is this the Sikhi way? At least now they come to the Gurdwara and there is brotherhood between the Sikhs and the Sindhis.

My opinion only. Best regards,
petersg

roopsidhu · #69 (**permalink**) 29-Aug-2006, 03:27 AM

Dear brothers
Sat sri Akaal
First of all we should try to understand that what the message of gurbani about the aarti is. Sri guru Nanak dev ji's bani says
"Gagan meh thaal ravi chand deepak bane tarika mandal jamnak moti........."
As per Sikh history this bani was recited by guru ji after watching the ritual aarti being performed at Jagannath mandir. This bani in Dhanasari raga is all in praise of the great aarti being performed by the nature (sky being thaal and sun and moon being lamps) The great specialty of the gurbani is that it teaches us to keep away from rituals and to pray for the greatest of all "akaal purkh".

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ang 694 "Nam tero aarti majan murarey,Hark e naam bin jhutey sagal pasarey"
Also tells us that all the rituals are false only lord's name is true. His name is Deepak, his name is flower his name is kesar his name is chandan etc. Hence if you meditate and worship his name that is the best aarti. Gurbani teaches us to find the great lord from within our heart . Gurbani teaches us the shortest way to achieve the lord. Gurbani always teaches us to keep away from the rituals (aadambras) let it be aarti or idol worship. See Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ang 695 "uttam deeara nirmal bati, tu hi niranjan kamalapati" Here again its stressed that only the true name of the lord is " uttam deeara" i.e. gurbani message revolves around the main principal of Naam Simran and keeping away from karam kaands. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ang 1350 Kabir ji says " tat tayl naam kee-aa baatee deepak dayh uj-yaaraajot laa-ay jagdees jagaa-i-aa boojhai boojhanhaaraa . panchay sabad anaahad baajay sangay saringpaanee, kabeer daas tayree aartee keenee nirankaar nirbaanee.
Means: With the oil of knowledge about the essence of reality, and the wick of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, this lamp illuminates. My body have applied the Light of the Lord, and lit this lamp. The Unstuck Melody of the Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, vibrates and resounds. I dwell with the Lord of the World, Kabeer, Your slave, performs this Aartee, From this shabad its very clear that the aarti sung by the Gurus or the Bhagats was not the one with artificial lamps or plates etc they used the wick of the naam and the oil of the knowledge to perform the aarti. Hence all these rituals are against the prime theme of the gurbani.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503
But anyhow we can not and we should not condemn others (Hindus) ways of the aarti as well. As per their religious belief that is the right practice and they must follow that. But for those who claim to be Sikhs or the followers of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (gurbani) it becomes their duty to follow the instructions and teaching of gurbani to keep away from karam kaands and as per gurbani performing aarti with lamps flowers etc is one of those karam kaands.
Bhul chuk maaf

kaur-1 · #70 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petersg

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

WJKK, WJKF

In Singapore, we have many Sikhs and Sindhis coming to the Gurdwara. The Sindhis who sometimes sponsor the event in the Gurdwara will normally culminate the programme with an Aarti which is done the "Hindu" way. So what should we do? Do we stop them?
If we ban the event, the Sindhis will just stop coming to the Gurdwara and there is a wedge driven between the Sikhs and the Sindhis. Is this the Sikhi way? At least now they come to the Gurdwara and there is brotherhood between the Sikhs and the Sindhis.

My opinion only. Best regards,
petersg

Ya! "Hindu" way arti SHOULD NOT BE DONE IN A GURDWARA.

Whats the matter with the sangat in that particular Singaporean Gurdwara?

ARE YOU ALL DRACKAL (cowards).
SO WHAT if the Sindhi's stop coming. WHAT THE HACK IS WRONG WITH YOU LOT!!. Why do you "KOWTOY" to them.

YOU SHOULD BE SAYING TO THEM, please practice in a Gurdwara according to Gurmat and follow the Gurdwara protocols.

If you are a Sikh then I sincerely hope you say something to the gurdwara commity or directly to them. WE ARE NOT COWARDS. What does "SINGH" stand for?

Next you will allowing them to slaughter halal meat in a Gurdwara! Whats the matter with you lot.

vijaydeep Singh · #71 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 13:48 PM

Gurfateh

There are twa Takhats,where Arti is done and many other Gurudwaras where such Arti is done.But in no Gurudwara,we see Halal been done on Animal.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503

Anyway some people even doubt the concept of Arti.Das can recomend that three types of views can exist in same Gurudwara.

1.Arti with lamps etc. Das say lamps etc are not much realvant but more show.
2.Arti with music only.
3.No Arti done as all.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503

Say Hindus put garland to felow Hindus so Sikhs must not stop this.Or say if Hindu use Tabla or Dholak in thier prayers,we should not use it.Everthing can not be seen in anti Hindu way but rather what is as per Gurmat.

Jaszwant · #72 (**permalink**) 26-Dec-2006, 09:20 AM

Well, I think the issue raised is a mere waste of time and rubbish in itself rather than accusing whatever practices as rubbish. Yes, I do agree that its indirectly promoting hatred more than love & compassion. At the end-of-the day, we all have a choice, and choice is to either just ignore and quietly depart or partake in the event or merely observe it in silenceif you just do not wish to be part of it. Afterall, how does it affect your personal beliefs.

At least we are not like the Muslims/Malays in Malaysia where the Muslims are strictly prohibited to undertake or participate in any event that the religious leaders THINK is unislamic or even go to the extent of ruling on how th Muslim should behave, act etc. That is not freedom. That is not being flexible. In the end, whatever we do, our actions will speak for it self before GoD. Its not for us to argue about something, to stop someone fom doing something that they want to do etc, as long as its not a criminal offence, as long as it does not injure someone. We all must just continue to live life, and learn from all arounf for ourselves, to be a better person and to serve all irregardless of race, religion, sex whatever. We are afterall brothers and sisters, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Animistic, Aethist or Sikh or whatever one wishes to profess.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503

So let's end this unnecessary argument on what is right and what is wrong, let the age old practices go on in peace, and we as bystanders merely observe it if we think its not right to partcipate in it.

Wishing everyone a Merry X'Mas & a Wonderfull Blessed New Year.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5503

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh!