Segregation of gender in Gurudwaras

etinder · #1 (**permalink**) 20-Aug-2005, 03:34 AM

The issue that was raised in one of the threads was "Why do we segregate on the basis of gender while sitting in the presence of sri guru granth sahib ji in gurudwaras... while usually at langar both men and women sit together?"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5398-segregation-of-gender-in-gurudwaras.html

Lets deliberate.
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drkhalsa · #2 (**permalink**) 20-Aug-2005, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etinder

The issue that was raised in one of the threads was
"why do we segregate on the basis of gender while sitting in the presence of sri guru granth sahib ji in gurudwaras..while usually at langar both men and women sit together?"

lets deliberate

well what i think is that it cultural kind of thing to sit in congretion in two different groups but who knows what others people think about it ??

Amerikaur · #3 (**permalink**) 31-Aug-2005, 08:17 AM

To my knowledge, there isn't a hard rule that says there must be gender segregation in the langar hall. Some gurdwaras have "co-ed" sections along with their "segregated" sections.

The main reason that I can think of is modesty. When we are in the kirtan hall, we sit, stand, and matha tek many times. Sometimes we do this in crowded conditions. Sometimes when doing this, we stumble or lose our balance and bump in to each other.

We do not go through these body movments in the langar hall, at work, on the subway, in the elevator, or any other common situation that places us in crowded, mixed company.

Personally, I really like the idea of having a part of gurdwara available for familes that want to sit together while worshipping, but for as long as I am single, I plan on sitting amongst my fellow Kaurs while in gurdwara. I really don't want to be worried about whether the person sitting behind me is looking at my backside with intentions that are...not gurmat. Plus, if I'm clumsy enough to stumble in to a woman while climbing up from a matha tek, it is quickly forgiven and forgotten. If I stumble in to a man while doing the same, it could become rumor fodder for the next few weeks.

No thanks.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 31-Aug-2005, 16:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amerikaur

To my knowledge, there isn't a hard rule that says there must be gender segregation in the langar hall. Some gurdwaras have "co-ed" sections along with their "segregated" sections.

The main reason that I can think of is modesty. When we are in the kirtan hall, we sit, stand, and matha tek many times. Sometimes we do this in crowded conditions. Sometimes when doing this, we stumble or lose our balance and bump in to each other.

We do not go through these body movments in the langar hall, at work, on the subway, in the elevator, or any other common situation that places us in crowded, mixed company.

Personally, I really like the idea of having a part of gurdwara available for familes that want to sit together while worshipping, but for as long as I am single, I plan on sitting amongst my fellow Kaurs while in gurdwara. I really don't want to be worried about whether the person sitting behind me is looking at my backside with intentions that are...not gurmat. Plus, if I'm clumsy enough to stumble in to a woman while climbing up from a matha tek, it is quickly forgiven and forgotten. If I stumble in to a man while doing the same, it could become rumor fodder for the next few weeks.

No thanks.

Thats probably too right. People being what they are.
Not a reflection on anyone, but once my German friend remarked to me taht from what he "heard" while in the company of some Punjabi Men, he was sure these men would be able to "see" everything even when walking in an Arab City with the women in full Hijab and covered in layers of cloth...which an average German wouldnt be able to "see" on a NUDIST BEACH ?? I was hilarious with laughter at first..but then when i stopped laughing i realised he had a point there..thats probably why India doesnt have any nudist beaches !! They DONT need them. ITS all in the MIND..as they say.

Jarnail Singh

etinder · #5 (**permalink**) 01-Sep-2005, 01:55 AM

I beg to differ a little, dont you think that this gives rises to the discrimination..when a kid see's from the young age that the men and women are different and treated differently, no matter what we tell or preach that kid but what he/she observes from his/her eyes is different, dont you think that this will sow the seeds of discrimination, just a thought?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398

gurufateh

Amerikaur · #6 (**permalink**) 01-Sep-2005, 03:04 AM

Etinder ji,

Personally, no, I don't think it leads to discrimination. If the seating structure in a gurdwara leads a child to think that one gender is better or worse than another, then the parents have not done their job preparing the child for life ahead.

Don't get me wrong, I would actually like to see more desegregated areas in the Kirtan halls.

If it is in Waheguru's plan for me to marry a Singh that speaks Panjabi, I would like to be able to sit next to him...especially if he is willing to translate the spoken words for me as I am illiterate in that language.

I also think that if parents can sit together with their children, then the two of them can better keep a rambunctious child under control.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398

And, I think there may be folks that would like to sit in desegregated company or don't mind one way or another.

I just don't think that desegregation should be forced on anyone.

But since there isn't a mandate that states men and women should sit seperately, isn't it ultimately up to the local gurdwara to decide how to plan their space?

Just my thoughts....

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 01-Sep-2005, 06:43 AM

IMHO JUST A MATTER OF SEATING ARRANGEMETNS..LEFT OR RIGHT wont lead a normal child towards "discrimination" per se..
In our local Gurdwara when the ladies have the Isteri satsang Diwan...and only ladies are around...they all sit on the side normally the men sit in normal diwans...and the children take it in their stride..soemthing like today its mom's turn to do the dishes and tomorrow its dad's turn !! Today mom sits on this side next day dad sits there..

Sitting on the FLOOR is the reason...when we sit on the floor it is of necessity more goda bangings and closer together..etc..than say siting on the pews in a church/benches in langgar halls doesnt mean that much body contact.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398

I for one would encourage Family sitting together...

Jarnail Singh

jarnailc3 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-Sep-2005, 14:38 PM

first of all

Sat Sri Akaal to All ,

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5398
Today politics is involved in our religious matters. This is the worse thing happening in our Religion.

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BSA · #9 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2005, 12:42 PM

Sat siri akal I am a first time poster so please bear with me.
I do not think this is discrimination to allow segragation because first of all we are all sitting on the same level same room. I think if you ask the older folks they will tell you they feel more comfortable that way. This is not a religious thing but a cultural thing that has been around for centuries.Do I like it ? No . But I think things will change as times move forward. But for now I think we are doin OK.