Teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji & Guru Gobind Singh Ji : A Comparative Study

Somebody said... "Guru Gobind based his teachings on Hermetic thought and that Guru Nanak was clearly influenced by Templar culture and chivalry"
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What are your views? Please be objective in your discussion.

Thank you.

Dear Ideal Singh Jee,
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From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Jee, it is one process of evolution. All put together is Sikhism and its philosophy. Any attempt to segment it according to the teaching of each guru is to negate it. As our limbs or other organs (teaching of each of our guru separatly) separated from our body (sikhism) have no real meaning, in the same way considering each guru separately also does not give you the grasp of the totality; it does not help the cause of sikh religion.
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With Love and Respect for all.

Amarpal

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Guru Nanak Dev ji explained a PRACTICAL approach to GOD. he said that all the old forms of bagati were wrong. some use to hang upside down go to the jungles, etc. he said that without NAM your cannot become pure. and how to reach this NAM, Seige Dun, Anahad Bani, Shabad, Toor; is by leaving this world of Tregun, of Maya. and going to your Real home, "Sun Samad Sacha Ghar Bara". (Sun Samad is your real home) the question is now how reach our home and find this NAM. so Maharaj explains "Pawn Paani Agni Bisrao Te Niranjan Sacha Nao" : where Air, Water & Fire end there is Nam. now what Vidies are written to enter Sun, Siege, 10 Dwar, 10 Akash, Begum Pura, Nij Ghar; are Sasgras and Sas Sas. there are many more vidies but this is the basic for begining your journey. and by His Grace and practice, lots of practice, hard work is what it takes and people these days are Bewitched by MAYA, and don't want to meet WAHEGURU and don't meditate on him. Our Mann (not mind) is asleep and our eyes, ears, toungue are not in our control and the Fives theives steal our Amrit. So our guru Explains "Simar Simar Simar Gur Apna Soiya Mann Jagai". By the Satgurus grace one hears and understands the Guru. SASGRAS is a practical method of meditiation. Gurbani Guru says" DUn Me DIan, DIan mey Jania Gurmukh Akath Kahani" ,9th Guru Says "Jehba Jap Agaja Karan Sunno Har Nam" (speak with toungue and listen to Har Nam") Gras is to take in and Sas is to complete your breathe (out). so you JAP "WAHE'GURU" in one complete breathe to stop your toughts. Gurbani Guru says to do simran all the time while working aswell "Simar Simar Har Karn Karna" you should do this with your breathe that way you won't forget. when you breathe in say WAHE and breathe out say GURU. this way your Sas is saved because Gurbani says "Lekha bolan bolna Lekha Khanna Kao, Lekhe vat chalaile, lekhe sun vekao" that everything you say, think while eating, walking, listening is written...
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=41 (Teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji & Guru Gobind Singh Ji : A Comparative Study)
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if you have any comments please email me adeep646@yahoo.com.

Adeep Ji,

Welcome back to SPN. Hope to see your posts more often.

Well, I don't think a comparative study can be done. We know that Guru Gobind Singh ji gave Guru gaddi to SGGS so he, if not agreed with, then at least respected the teachings of the other gurus. He didn't leave behind any teachings that we can use to study, whereas Guru Nanak did.
About the 5 ks, those served a practical purpose. Kes and Kirpan were direct insult to the Mughal law. Kachera was more practical on a battlefield than a dhoti. Kangha was used to keep kes clean, very practical. Kare can be worn like armour and serve as brass knuckles in hand-to-hand combat.

We know both Gurus fought against injustice, oppression, etc. By the time 10th Guru ji came around, it had become worse. Guru Nanak dev ji fought with pens and his words and Guru Gobind Singh ji picked up the sword. Again, it was situation dependent. But if you recall the zafarnama then you know that this is more of a similarity.
They both rebelled. Guru Nanak touching achoot is similar to Guru Gobind Singh keeping a kirpan or wearing a kalgi.
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I dont think there was any evolution. the gurus kept us going and got us through tough times. They stopped the human Guru trend when they thought it was right. Their teachings were consistent with each other, although, they may have been different in their own views, thoughts and actions.
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So again, Guru Gobind Singh ji really did not leave anything behind, which we could study. What he gave us (K's) were very practical at his time, 2 of them were there to rebel against the authority. The others served a purpose in "rough" times. both Gurus, fought against the same thing. The way they fought depended on the situation.
So I don't think their teachings were different. Perhaps their personalities were. Everyone is different somehow. But the gurus made sure that they left a consistent message for the Sikhs.


Talking about Gurus individually, I read some eye witness acounts on a website a while back. it stated that Guru Arjan dev ji was a strict vegetarian whereas his son, Guru Hargobind was an avid hunter and ate animal meat. If anyone knows where that is from please let me know. Thanks

Ideal Singh ji -- I have read this argument in varied placed on the net. To do justice to the topic requires disciplined reading, thought, reflection and study. The topic is one that fascinates me. Do wish that someone would take up this goal in the forum.

Bhagat ji

A comparative study can be done. The differences, yes, reflect the changes in historical facts and conditions, as well as the cultural realities of northern India in the times of either Guru.
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However, just last week in reading portions of Dasam Granth I saw many places where the thinking of the Nanaks, in particular Guru Nanak, were reflected and echoed. The voice of Nanak X is his own, as is the poetic phrasing, and there are language differences. Again, there are sections of Dasam Granth that are unique to that scripture. But look again at Jap Sahib and other parts of the Guru's Bani -- and then realize that the imagery, the truths so evoked, many other things are consistent with Adi Granth, but given in a creative and new way.

This is a discussion that would be very interesting.

Well, I thought if I mentioned Dasam granth, it would be considered off topic and more worthy of a different post. Perhaps, we can have a comparative study of Dasam granth (without assuming that it is by Guru Gobind Singh) and Guru granth Sahib.

Well, Aad ji if you think about it, Nanakian Philosophy is echoed all around the world nowadays. But ya, I agree many parts of Dasam granth are in agreement but many parts are ...
Let's do the comparison here.
Again, there are sections of Dasam Granth that are unique to that scripture.
What are your views on when comparing nanakian philosophy and your common sense to Dasam Granth :
Page 1368, Line 3
Speaking the word "Kaalkoot", then uttering the words "Kashtkari, Shivkanthi and Ahi" and then adding the word "Dhar", the names of Baan are known.133.
Page 1370, Line 4
Uttering primarily the words, "Nakaale and Sarteshvari" and then saying the words "Shat-ari and Sutari", all the names of Baan are pronounced.162.
Page 1371, Line 1
After uttering the words "Kaalaj, Dharmaj and Shalya-Ripou", then adding the word "Banndhu" and afterwards saying "Sutari", all the names of Baan are known.171.
Page 1378, Line 6
Saying the word "Kaalindi" in the beginning and then adding the words "Indra-Astar", afterwards many names of Paash continue to be evolved.270.
Page 1378, Line 7
Saying the word "Kaali Anuja" in the beginning and then uttering the word "Ishar-Astar", the wise people comprehend the names of Paash.271.
Page 1378, Line 12
Uttering the words "Kaalpita, tanuj and Astar" in serial order, all the names of Paash ar known.276.
Page 1379, Line 7
Uttering the words "Kall, Akaal and Karaal", then adding the word Aayudh, the wise people know all the names of Paash in their mind.285.
Page 1380, Line 3
Saying the word "Kaal" in the beginning and then putting the word Astar" at the end, innumerable names of Paash continue to be evolved.295.
Like what is that?? My dad says those are mantras that give you special powers.

page 114, check out the whole passage, it says that this guy has a thousand arms and legs.
it didnt sound like a metaphor for anything. It jsut sounds like a fairytale. you know? like someone just made it up for fun. This is what I think happened when someone wrote that.
Author: "Hey maybe I am thinking that this guy can secrete planets out of his ear while having a thousand arms and legs."
Friend "Oh man that would be awesome!! put that in your story!!"

...then it goes on to reproduce some hindu mythology. Some random story....I was thinking why would anyone bother writing this... where is this going? Why do I need to hear this? Ok let's change our perspective, perhaps, a diferent perspective is needed.
if I think Guru gobind Singh ji was a great writer and wrote his "imagination" on paper then I think, this is a carbon copy of the hindu mythology. This is not his imagination! Why would he copy that? and its not like he's teaching anything here using the Mythology like Guru nanak does...

ok let's keep going...
I am at page 118.
Vampires and ghosts? ya... right....

anyway, let's keep going and see if this gets anywhere. The more I read the more it sounds like "Warcraft". The author describes the battles that take place, i think between the asuras and humans. Which I equate to the orcs vs humans in Warcraft (a video game). i am reading "dasam granth" as I type this.
page 129
Recitation of Vedas? what???

Anyway, now the author says he was meditating on some mountain and so on.
Our brains develop after we are born, and the brain develops as we gain knowledge etc. There is nothing in the brain before that.
So when our brain develops after we are born, you shouldn't remember anything before as its not there. So where does this all come from? imagination? Ok I will agree with that. If Guru Gobind Singh ji made that up for fun then its totally acceptable. Afterall being a writer, you gotta use your imagination. however, as soon as this becomes his life story, his actual biography , literally, then its bull....
i can understand if this is figurative language to express something, like a poem, but its clearly not. Its like stating " facts" .
how do you explain that?

Some parts but others? not so much.

Let's begin!

I bet there are tons of mistakes up there since i didnt proofread, so forgive me.
Thanks

Bhagat ji,

There is a lot to tackle in your last post. We will be at it for days. With Guru's kirpa not too much fur will fly. Two very general comments however.

It is important when analyzing specific words used by Sri Guru Gobind Singh to keep in mind that the Punjabi language had changed in significant ways from Guru Nanak's time. Indeed, even the parts of the Adi Granth written by Guru Arjan Dev indicate linguistic forms had evolved during that even shorter span of time. I think people accord too much emotion when drawing distinctions between and among this word and that word, without also considering contexts in which the words are used -- in both scriptures.

Second point: In my opinion, and this is only my feeble opinion, the amount of emotion that is cooked up over the re-telling of Hindu myths in Dasam Granth is equally over-wrought. Why wouldn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh use them as a framework for teaching, inspiring, and sharing His insight? There are in fact some extremely interesting writings on the historical significance of the Vedas (as opposed to other Hindu books of scripture) that ties them to the political and cultural history of the Khastriya caste. Maybe I will share what I know about this later. Maybe not.

How can the Sri Guru Gobind Singh be excluded from this discussion were it to take place? Again IMHO - the 10th Guru wrote most if not all Dasam Granth-- until scholars advise otherwise.
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Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=41 (Teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji & Guru Gobind Singh Ji : A Comparative Study)

These matters are entirely independent of the status of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the final Guru of the Sikhs. Unless of course someone is pushing a political agenda, and cannot stay out of a fight. More later after I have had a chance to digest all that you have listed as potential discussion questions.

Nice site BTW at sridasamgranth. Thanks.