An Outsider's Thought on the 5ks

linzer · #19 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 04:28 AM

The type of yoga isn't even vedic. He made his exercises up as he went " do this" (Imagine raising your arms at a 45 degree angle) Keep doing this for eleven minutes now repeat Har Har Har." Your sitmulating your whatzit gland" I joke not the classes are like this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/38767-an-outsiders-thought-on-the-5ks.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38767
Yogi Bhajan tried to give legitamacy to his invented form of yoga by attributing it to the Sikh Gurus, calling it the "golden chain".This is one of the many thing that I find offensive about thier practice. You can call it what ever you want just don't call it Sikh.
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Kanwaljit Singh · #20 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 04:36 AM

http://www.3ho.org/kundalini-yoga/sh...is-shabd-guru/

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38767
See here Shabad Guru has no mention of Nanak.

Luckysingh · #21 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

is this the same rising kundalini that is frowned on by the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Harryji, after looking at the gurbani references, i'm sure you can see the actual messages with regards to kundalini yoga practices. Gurbani does not advise us against it or in it's favour.- It simply instructs us that 'empty ritualistic practices' are not the way to experience the bliss of creator.

Gurbani does acknowlede that a kundalini energy may exist within us and that it may rise for certain dedicated indivuals that follow and live by the shabad guru in a gurmat manner. - This explains that one does NOT need kundalini practices of breathing. .etc.. to attain this risen state of bliss BUT one can achieve this state by living by the word of the shabad.

Now, that leaves us with the simple explanation in gurbani -that if a state of such bliss or raised kundalini energy does exist within us, then this can be achieved by being Gurmat and living by the word and NOT by the empty practices of breathing, yoga... etc..-

-This is what the gurbani quotes tell us, simply that one does NOT need yoga practices to raise their so called kundalini. However, gurbani does NOT deny that such an energy may exist, neither does it claim that this state of bliss can onlly be attained by raising one's kundalini.
-
-This leaves us all with a simple question of 'does this kundalini energy actually exist?'-
So, if we want to be fools, then we can spend our energies on trying to find and prove this so called energy, BUT, Shouldn't we just be Channeling these very energies into being Gurmat instead and then letting this so called kundalini be as it is and let it rise, if that's what it does and if it does exist ?-

So, let it be if it is instead of trying to find and prove it.

I hope that my explanation is a little clear to help someone who may be trying to find and understand this 'kundalini'.

I can confirm that an elevated state of blissful consciousness and awareness may indeed exist, if this is what one may call a kundalini rising. However, you do NOT need a yoga practice to attain this elevation, it can occur in other ways and by being more gurmat in practice.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

harry haller · #22 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 14:28 PM

Luckyji

Quote:

Harryji, after looking at the gurbani references, i'm sure you can see the actual messages with regards to kundalini yoga practices. Gurbani does not advise us against it or in it's favour.- It simply instructs us that 'empty ritualistic practices' are not the way to experience the bliss of creator.

You may perform exercises of inner purification, and fire up the furnace of the Kundalini, inhaling and exhaling and holding the breath.

Without the True Guru, you will not understand; deluded by doubt, you shall drown and die.

references and page numbers on my last post, are you sure about that Luckyji?

Why do we need to even contemplate our kundalinis, and who cares whether it rises or not? We are Sikhs, we have something better than kundalini, Naam.

Quote:

Gurbani does acknowlede that a kundalini energy may exist within us and that it may rise for certain dedicated indivuals that follow and live by the shabad guru in a gurmat manner. - This explains that one does NOT need kundalini practices of breathing. .etc.. to attain this risen state of bliss BUT one can achieve this state by living by the word of the shabad.

Gurbani also acknowledges that Weed gets you high, and into a state of false bliss, are you suggesting that someone who has a risen kundalini is in the same state as a Gursikh who has found Naam? , because if that is the case, then one could achieve the same state as being stoned by living the word of the shabad. Why do we need to borrow terms and concepts from other religions, when our own not only suffices, but has been refined to a state possibly much higher?

Quote:

However, gurbani does NOT deny that such an energy may exist, neither does it claim that this state of bliss can onlly be attained by raising one's kundalini.
-

This is a poor argument, by this principle, are you saying that Bestiality is ok for Sikhs, as it is not denied in Gurbani. Gurbani has no interest in this 'state of bliss'. In fact, Gurbani is more concerned with how you live, and how you effect your surroundings than new age 'states of bliss'. The Gurmukh state of bliss is as a result of understanding, and mental and physical surrender to Creator, all roads do not lead to Rome, they are two different states of bliss we are talking about, one is for the self, one is for God.

-

Quote:

This leaves us all with a simple question of 'does this kundalini energy actually exist?'-
So, if we want to be fools, then we can spend our energies on trying to find and prove this so called energy, BUT, Shouldn't we just be Channeling these very energies into being Gurmat instead and then letting this so called kundalini be as it is and let it rise, if that's what it does and if it does exist ?-

I would love nothing better, however, if we ignore the growing invasion of Vedic practices in Sikhism, then we will find the religion that we love, veering away from the simplicity of what it stands for, and becoming a mirror of Hinduism.

Quote:

So, let it be if it is instead of trying to find and prove it.

I could not care less whether it exists or not, however, I refuse to sit and watch, as more and more non Sikh concepts are lauded as Sikh just because they got a mention in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The whole concept of Kundalini clearly does not pass the litmus test of Gurmatt.

chazSingh · #23 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 15:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Chazji

let us be succinct here.

Inner cleansing techniques, channeling the energy to raise the Kundalini to the Tenth Gate, inhaling, exhaling and holding the breath by the force of the mind. By empty hypocritical practices, Dharmic love for the Lord is not produced. Only through the Word of the Guru's Shabad is the sublime, supreme essence obtained

Now to me, this requires no help in understanding, its quite simple, channeling the energy to raise the kundalini, is an inner cleansing technique and is clearly stated as a empty hypocritical practice. Its really quite simple, I do not know why you are complicating a very simple quotation.

You need to look at the gurbani closer and deeper. There are various stages/levels to spirituality that lead us towards the formless source from where we and everything in maya originated. To experience the 'formless', one has to overcome the mind and then eventually go beyond the mind. The mind is also part of Maya and the creation therefore not even the mind can experience 'formless' god....only the Soul can.

Guru Ji is telling us that these exercises of the mind can not lead us completely to experience the formless...because that is what we should all be thirsting for. the kundalini, the tenth gate, the seven chakras are all still within maya/creation...to eventually go beyond, only Love, devotion, and the shabad guru 'within' will ferry you to rest of the way....nothing else can.

Without Love, without accepting the bad things we have done, without forgiveness, without compassion, without selfless service...none of these practices will get you anywhere at all...even 5 banis, even 10 hours of meditation a day...even a life of charity..nothing will do anything.

Even crooks, bad souls can utilize these yogas, meditations, to get to a certain level of spirituality, astral travel etc...but they are bad souls, god knows this, these souls never reach the formless state...they lose their amrit and keep cycling in many janams.

I do not do any form of kundalini yoga...I havent needed to as yet. The shabad seems to be guiding me quite well. But for others kundalini Yoga may be helping them reach higher stages of consciousness...and maybe their Love for Guru Ji, their Simran on the Shabad Guru will take them the rest of the way. Main think is like Guru Ji said, without the love, without the shabad guru (inner guru and outer guru) you won't reach the formless source.

You have written

You claim to have controlled your ego, but I find a lot of your definitive statements quite egoistical, with respect brother.
Sorry Ji, i dont think i have ever clamined to have controlled my Ego...the battle is there everyday and hopefully one day i experience an ego free state...but it's definately not there yet

sorry if my email sounded egotistical...i was being kicked out of the office and splurted it all out quickly.

I agree, but this is not the debate, this is your defence to kundalini being described as an empty practice in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,
Whetevr happens (i.e. kundalini rising, seven chakras, tenth gate opening)...remember, it is all part of gods design...some people experience all of the above and havn't a clue what the kundalii is, or the tenth gate is...because it doesnt really matter if you know of not because Love for Guru (inner and outer) is all that matters...He will guide you if He feels your deep TRUE LOVE inside your Hirda (spiritual heart). And it may be that He then guides you to do certain Yoga's or just simple meditation...Whatever He feels you need at that time and place...All is HIM

I want my mind to understand God and the order of God, anything else is just 'inner cleansing', in effect, without the understanding of your mind, do you have any understanding at all?
The mind is a construct for use in the creation...our universe, other realms of creation etc etc. To experience the Formless, the mind cannot be used...it will never understand...thats why the Guru's said naanak kathhanaa kararraa saar ||37||
O Nanak, to describe this is as hard as steel!

Sometimes you have to take the journey to experience something. the mind existing in time and Space cannot understand what exists in No Time and No space.

But we have already established that trying to raise your kundalini is nothing more than an empty practice, so I am confused as to why you persist in making this rising kundalini, some sort of important Sikh practice
It';s an empty practice because people think that THEY can rise the kundalini....When only GOD can...all is Him...not us...and he knows from searching our hearts if we REALLY want to go back to him, if we are ready...to go to the formless state...and if we do, then he will take care of everthing...the Kundalini, the tenth gate, the balancing of the chakra..the amrit flowing, the inner vision, then feeling/hearing the inner shabad guru that guides you into the formless.

God bless all.

chazSingh · #24 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 15:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linzer

The type of yoga isn't even vedic. He made his exercises up as he went " do this" (Imagine raising your arms at a 45 degree angle) Keep doing this for eleven minutes now repeat Har Har Har." Your sitmulating your whatzit gland" I joke not the classes are like this.
Yogi Bhajan tried to give legitamacy to his invented form of yoga by attributing it to the Sikh Gurus, calling it the "golden chain".This is one of the many thing that I find offensive about thier practice. You can call it what ever you want just don't call it Sikh.

Yogi Bhajan went to the U.S at a time where the generation were crying out for an experience higher and deeper than the headaches of their daily lives...they wanted more...to escape...and they turned to drugs to try and get that experience.

Yogi Ji, single handedly bought these people together and showed them a way to get their spiritual fix without the need for drugs. He showed them how to balance their bodies energies when their energies were probably all over the place with the use of drugs, and their mental state.

He took them out of their mental tortures and showed them some light...and while doing this he shone the light of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to them to give them meaning and direction.

The Yoga and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prepared their bodies (physical and spiritual) and their mind to open up to the Shabad Guru Within and to raise their consciousness.

This was the method he used...and he worked wonders on the population.
And before criticing Him, maybe we should all think if we could ever even just do something so amazing as that.

He spent his life uplifting others...there is nothing more corageous than that. He once said...if you uplift another person...god will uplift you...this is divine law and a promise form god.

harry haller · #25 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 15:57 PM

Chazji

You are right, let us not dwell on the heresy, womanising, and business dealings of dear Yogiji (but if you really insist, http://www.rickross.com/groups/3ho.html)

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38767
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38767
In that vein, below is an article about all the great things Hitler did.

http://grantjkidney.com/6-good-things-hitler-did/

Besides the events that everyone since childhood has been told of, particularly the story of the holocaust, there were many astonishing acts carried about by Hitler’s government that few are familiar with. The following are six good achievements made by the Third Reich that radically set the stage for future advancement in many particular fields, sciences, and social norms.

1.) No smoking! Hitler was vehemently anti-smoking. The Nazi’s were also the first to link smoking to the contraction of cancer. Source.

2.) The Hitler Mobile? Hitler wanted every German, whether rich or poor, to have a car. And thus he invented the Volkswagen (“People’s Car”). Source.

3.) Spare some change? Before coming into power in 1933, mass unemployment crippled the German economy. The global depression of that era made it so that a wheelbarrow full of money couldn’t even buy a loaf of bread. When the Nazis stormed on to the scene, they put everyone back to work. Over night, the wheels of the economy were turning once more and money was flowing back into people’s pockets. Source.

4.) It’s his way or the highway! Every time you hop on to the freeway to get somewhere faster than taking all the back roads, thank Hitler. That’s right, Hitler invented the highway system (“Autobahn” in German). Source.

5.) This little light of mine… I’m gunna let it shine! The Olympic torch relay ceremony was Hitler’s idea for the 1936 Berlin Olympic games. We haven’t since gotten rid of the ceremony. Source.

6.) Save the whales! Hitler and many top Nazis were environmentalist types who cared deeply about animals and their rights. The Nazis were among the first to put in place laws protecting animals from abuse. Source.

Aside from the above examples are many countless others wherein Hitler used his extraordinary power as dictator to push both good and evil policies. Again, it’s important to realize the “yin yang” concept as alluded to prior when attempting to make sense of such information concerning the person and achievements of Adolf Hitler.

Maybe we should do a series, next week, Pol Pot, followed by Charles Manson, Genghis Khan, and we might even get round to Judas!

chazSingh · #26 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 15:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

http://www.3ho.org/kundalini-yoga/kundalini-yoga-yb/

It is not related to Sikhism in any way shape or form, 3HO have taken it to their bossom, but then they also bow before a statue of Baba Sri Chand too, each to his own....

The Guru that I believe in, is only interested in your mind thinking and acting within Hukam. He does not need any money, he does not need an army of Yoga instructors, Sikh philosophy stands on its own, it does need the help of ritualistic Vedic practices to support it.

Guru Ji is interested in your Soul

because if your soul stops being a slave to your mind, your actions start to become pure again.

Guru Ji is interested in guiding and developing your consciousness to a
level where you can experience and live by your creator (no one can describe this state of being...not even the guru ji's could)...has to be experienced....

Guru Ji is telling us to stop listening to the mind..the mind is getting you into so many struggles and problems and attachments.

oopar gagan gagan par gorakh thaa kaa agam guroo pun vaasee ||
Above is the sky of the mind, and beyond this sky is the Lord, the Protector of the World; the Inaccessible Lord God; the Guru abides there as well.

god bless all

harry haller · #27 (**permalink**) 17-Jul-2012, 16:06 PM

Quote:

Guru Ji is interested in your Soul because if your soul stops being a slave to your mind, your actions start to become pure again.

Are you suggesting that the mind is completely impure? the only way to be pure is not to be a slave to your mind? I would disagree, I would say cleanse the mind, and allow your soul to be a slave to a cleansed mind, which would result in your actions becoming pure. This, however, does require hard work and understanding

Quote:

Guru Ji is interested in guiding and developing your consciousness to a
level where you can experience and live by your creator (no one can describe this state of being...not even the guru ji's could)...has to be experienced....

Only YOU can be responsible for developing your consciousness, with the Gurus grace