How important is Matha Tekking?

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #55 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 09:05 AM

yes Brother Vouthon Ji..you have got it right...Prayer is to draw us CLOSER to HIM..not attempts at "solving" our own man made problems...like wanting badly to excel when spent all time discoing and clubbing..ha ha..or lounging on the sofa watching tv and wanting to posses a mansion and a Ferrari..he he...or wishing for six-ab body but drinking like a fish 24/7...he he....prayers dont bring Feraris or cure cancers..GURBANI makes this amply clear (but there are many who have eyes but dont want to see..have ears but dont want to hear..have TONGUES...BUT DONT WANT TO KEEP SILENT !!!! ). None of the Gurus have ever mentioned that such and such a shabad can cure cancer..make an amputated foot grow back..BUT ALL the shabads do talk about the Longing to MEET Him..meet the Beloved..Union with the Creator..the Bride/groom shabads..the Laavann are all essentially about the longing to be closer to Him....
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/38540-how-important-is-matha-tekking.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540
Sikhism also has its share of fake Snake Oil merchants..the Babas and derawadees..who market certain shabads as cure-all...and make tons of money off gullible fools who buy their fake advertising gimmicks..

BhagatSingh · #56 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 09:35 AM

Harry ji,

Quote:

I do not play games with Guruji, if I were to see him, of course I would bow to him as I bow to my mother or father, but to elevate this act to the point of importance, to say it there is a point to it, to even suggest it is Sikhi, in my view is wrong, there is nothing Sikhi about bowing, it is pure respect and an expression of heartfelt love.

The tradition of bowing down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji comes from Guru Gobind Singh ji. Who bowed down to it after placing before it a few Paise. Therefore, it is quite "Sikhi" to bow down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Speaking about bowing.
First there is bowing. Most people never get past this stage, they just don't see the value of exploring further. They are too concerned with their material possessions and worldly things to care about the content.

Next there is attention to content, a few who got past the first stage end up here. Great! but most get stuck here. They don't realize this is just a stage in development. The content is just a sophisticated material and worldly thing. They see further than the previous group of people but not far enough. Only a few see further and move forward.

Finally we find bowing again, and only bowing, nothing else, no content, there maybe some but not much, kind of like the first stage but different in an unexplainable way, the mind does a 360. A few get to this, and then they bow and bow and bow...

Cheers

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:

ਡੰਡਉਤਿ ਬੰਦਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਾਰ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਸਮਰਥ ॥
डंडउति बंदन अनिक बार सरब कला समरथ ॥
Dand▫uṯ banḏan anik bār sarab kalā samrath.
I bow down, and fall to the ground in humble adoration, countless times, to the All-powerful Lord, who possesses all powers.

ਡੋਲਨ ਤੇ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ ਕਰਿ ਹਥ ॥੧॥
डोलन ते राखहु प्रभू नानक दे करि हथ ॥१॥
Dolan ṯe rākẖo parabẖū Nānak ḏe kar hath. ||1||
Please protect me, and save me from wandering, God. Reach out and give Nanak Your Hand. ||1||
256

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
रागु गउड़ी पूरबी महला ४ ॥
Rāg ga▫oṛī pūrbī mėhlā 4.
Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fourth Mehl:

ਕਾਮਿ ਕਰੋਧਿ ਨਗਰੁ ਬਹੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਖੰਡਲ ਖੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥
कामि करोधि नगरु बहु भरिआ मिलि साधू खंडल खंडा हे ॥
Kām karoḏẖ nagar baho bẖari▫ā mil sāḏẖū kẖandal kẖanda he.
The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint.

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥
पूरबि लिखत लिखे गुरु पाइआ मनि हरि लिव मंडल मंडा हे ॥१॥
Pūrab likẖaṯ likẖe gur pā▫i▫ā man har liv mandal mandā he. ||1||
By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1||

ਕਰਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਅੰਜੁਲੀ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥
करि साधू अंजुली पुनु वडा हे ॥
Kar sāḏẖū anjulī pun vadā he.
Greet the Holy Saint with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit.

ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਉਤ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
करि डंडउत पुनु वडा हे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kar dand▫uṯ pun vadā he. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Bow down before Him; this is a virtuous action indeed. ||1||Pause||
page 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

Harry ji

I want to give you the example of when I first started going to Gurdwara Sahib, and I was so nervous I would get to darbar sahib very early so no one would see me. One morning, before anyone else was in there, a Singh came in and did the most elabourate matha tek I've ever seen to date - he didn't just bow, he layed down on his stomach! I would like to say it was a genuine matha tek, but I recall he had a friend with him at the time. So even that may have just been for the friend's benefit. But who am I to judge?

Called a dandaut ਡੰਡਉਤ

Full submission. Try it, it floors your ego. pun intended

harry haller · #57 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 18:47 PM

BhagatSinghji

I should fully submit my mind first, so my body expresses this submission surely, rather than concentrate on the physical expression alone, what is the point of physical submission?

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540
To those who have submitted mind and body, I have only the fullest admiration.

Ishna · #58 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 19:03 PM

Brother, you could liken Matha Tekna to daily Nitnem. I think you can apply this shabad exactly to your predicament:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...tml#post158929
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540

Like a student who wants to be a concert pianist wondering why he should bother learning his scales when he would rather be learning Mozart.

On the one hand Sikhs need to be mindful of Guru Nanak's essential teaching against superstition and ritualism, but does that mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

If we know the deeper meaning and value of a ritual act, and use it to further our devotion and connection to Guru, and can recognise when a ritual behaviour becomes the end instead of the means, then why not go for it?

Ishna · #59 (**permalink**) 27-May-2012, 19:05 PM

Matha tekna is a physical expression of this sort sentiment:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
Salok.
Shalok:

ਡੰਡਉਤਿ ਬੰਦਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਾਰ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਸਮਰਥ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540
Dand▫uṯ banḏan anik bār sarab kalā samrath.
I bow down, and fall to the ground in humble adoration, countless times, to the All-powerful Lord, who possesses all powers.

ਡੋਲਨ ਤੇ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ ਕਰਿ ਹਥ ॥੧॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540
Dolan ṯe rākẖo parabẖū Nānak ḏe kar hath. ||1||
Please protect me, and save me from wandering, God. Reach out and give Nanak Your Hand. ||1||

BhagatSingh · #60 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

BhagatSinghji

I should fully submit my mind first, so my body expresses this submission surely, rather than concentrate on the physical expression alone, what is the point of physical submission?

To those who have submitted mind and body, I have only the fullest admiration.

Yes Harry ji, the mind and body are quite related. I can hug someone and feel more love for them than if I sat back and contemplated love for them. Both work and together they are even more powerful. Look for yourself, you will see how they both work. Try it, go hug a stranger or two if that's too much of a ritual to ask for :P

Hahah you know this is all very amusing to me. If guru sahib had said back in 15th century, "Ok guys today we'll all go out and hug people. This will allow us to see manas ki jaat sabhaai ekai pehchanbo". Then today, you would find Sikhs saying "well Guru Nanak rejected rituals, and I don't have to hug, I can just hug them in my mind. Some people hug and they still hate bla bla bla". Now you could do that but you have been gifted two machines, two tools. The mind and the body. Using both is better than using one or the other.

Wait! Isn't doing things in the mind a ritual? or is that somehow more special because it happens to be in the mind?

Recognize the mind and body to be one. As you do your daily ritual, do it as if your mind and body were one. I know it does not feel that way but that is just limited perception that we are all gifted with. Do report back with your experiences if you try it for at least a few months.

You learn to paint by painting. The painting is the means to an end but the end is what? The end is more painting. But through this process something has changed, yes? Rembrant was painting when he was say 8 (ignorant), and was still painting in the old age (wise). It's the same with ritual. If you want to be a Sikh stick to the traditional Sikh rituals and just do them. Now of course, you don't have to do them but then if you reject those rituals then expect to be called a non-Sikh or even an atheist, that's just how it is (traditionally in India only the atheist philosophical schools in Hinduism rejected religious rituals hence why some Sikhs will just call you an atheist; Sikhs did NOT btw).

You don't have to do a particular ritual, you can certainly have your own ritual. Last summer I would either wake up at 6 or more often stay up until 6-7 am and go out in the balcony and feel the cold, hard wood with my bare feet. and I looked at cats around my house, trying to hunt birds and squirrels. Listened to the birds and that was it, that was the ritual.

Through too much contemplation you lose touch with the body, when you recognize that, it's time to go back and get in touch.

PS the point of physical submission is physical submission.

harry haller · #61 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 13:49 PM

Bhagat Singhji

I just wrote you a fantastic reply with just the right amount of wit, sarcasm and fact, but unfortunately I just lost it, so you will have to make do with this condensed one.

Personal rituals I have lots of, I cannot eat unless I am reading, I always Matha Tek my parents if I have not seen them for longer than a month, I would never own a front wheel drive car, I eat cheesy poofs with a spoon, my dad and brother have to sit either side of me and pin me down come parshad time, due to my aversion to getting buttery hands, as I tend to make a run for it, so rituals, I am not averse to a few rituals of my own.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540

However we are talking about religious rituals, and they are very dangerous, it is religious rituals that have turned the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into a magical cure all, to be blessed by such magic is the name of the game, we play the game because on the whole, we want something, and we believe showing respect or love will assist us in obtaining such. When we respect or love without any wish of gain, that is true love and respect and to experience that is beautiful, just as religion without ritual is beautiful, but let ritual seep into religion, and people cannot see the difference between parroting Bani and understanding and living it, and that is the problem we have in Sikhism today, made worse by people lauding all the practices that Guru Nanakji tried so hard to show to be the empty practices that they are kudihug
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38540

P.S. I am a big hairy bear of a man, I hug everyone whether they wish to be hugged or not,

Scarlet Pimpernel · #62 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 14:01 PM

Quote:

I just wrote you a fantastic reply with just the right amount of wit, sarcasm and fact

So did I but I forgot to put computor on,so this will have to do.

harry haller · #63 (**permalink**) 28-May-2012, 14:02 PM

you need to brush up on your rituals spji