Baba Sri Chand and Sikhism

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #28 (**permalink**) 22-Apr-2012, 17:39 PM

The Gurmatt of Guru nanak ji is a complete and full Circle...Guru Nanak ji began His Mission - Nirmal Paanth...He incorporated whatever He found compatible with His mission but had already been espoused earlier than Him...examples the Bhagat banis, Sheikh farid Jis bani, etc etc....and then passed the "baton" to Guru Angad Ji...bypassing his flesh and blood becasue they were Both FOUND WANTING..and so on until Guru Gobind Singh ji...the Khalsa and BACK to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is ESSENTIALLY the essence of Guru nanak jis Mission/Gurmatt/Nirmal Panth. Note that Guru Gobind Singh ji deliberately kept his own writings OUTSIDE the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..even though He essentially re-edited the entire Granth, inserting the Gurbani of Guru teg bahadur Ji in hundreds of different but appropriate places (Raags/ashtpadees/chhands etc) (not as one chunk at one place as one would expect a later addition).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/38380-baba-sri-chand-and-sikhism.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380
Hnece its perfectly natural to assume that the KHALSA PANTH and the NIRMAL PANTH ( Both also mean the same..PURE !!) are ONE and the SAME. One CANNOT claim to be a follower of the "Nirmal" Panth and say that the Khalsa Panth is for the birds ??..or that the Circle that Guru nanak ji drew..Begins" here and "ends" there..simply because a CIRCLE by its virtue is no beginning and no end..its ONE COMPLETE ENTITY... The 10 Gurus are ONE JYOT..ONE MESSAGE..ONE MISSION..ONE GURMATT..ONE GRANTH..and ONE PANTH. There's absolutely no place for any DUALITY. One cannot take out an arc of the circle and claim that arc is the complete circle..its NOT.

SIKHS of necessity have to base their beleif on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. SAKHIS are simply tales...many absolutely PREPOSTEROUS and POSITIVELY INSULTING to our GURU SAHIBS and yet we have "Sikhs" who accept such as biblical truth !! One such Sakhi claims Guru Arjun ji was "STUCK" ( by writers block !!! ??? ) at Ashtpadee 8 of Sukhmani sahib..and it was Baba Sri Chand ( who incidentally hasnt written a single line himslef ) who "BLESSED"..Guru Arjun ji and OPENED the Writers Block so Guru Ji could COMPLETE the Sukhmani sahib. Can a SIKH accept such a gross insult to the one who is Called GURU ka DOHTA..BANI Ka BOHTHA..by none other than GURU AMARDASS Ji and whose Compositions are the MOST NUMEROUS in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?? Yet yes..many "sikhs" accept this FAKE STORY as Gospel truth !!..and wish other sikhs would accept it too....
Another equally preposterous and false and insulting sakhi claims that GURU ANGAD JI had a CANCEROUS TOE...which was cured by Baba Sri Chand....
The sakhi about Guru ramdass Ji wiping/dusting the feet of Baba sri Chand is showing the HUMILITY of our Guru sahib..as is also hsown when Baba DASSU came up behind GURU AMARDASS JI and KICKED HIM OFF the STAGE while Guru Ji was having a discourse in Sangat. Dassu was SON of GURU Angad Ji (Also Found wanting and BYPASSED for Gurgadee by his father Guru Angad Ji ) He was ANGRY that his father had not given the gurgadee to him and instead given it to the ..old man Bhai Amru...) Had Guru ji so desired Dassu would ahve got a beating of his life by the angry sangat..BUT NO..Guru Amardass ji piakced himslef up from the floor..( age 75++) and PRESSED the FEET of dassu ji saying..OH my son..my old body and bones must have HURT your FOOT...and Massaged it in full sangat !! Now is this incident a "proud moment" for Baba DASSU or showing us just how HUMBLE and SINCERE our Guru sahibs were even towards their enemies and detractors. There is no "sakhi" that shows that any one of these "Guru-sons" ever did anything remotely simialr to what Guru Amardass Ji did to dassu or Guru ramdass Ji did to baba sri Chand...YET we have Sikhs trying to show that Baba Sri chand is SO GREAT that even Guru Ramdass ji wiped his feet with his long beard...and so we have to accept that Baba Dassu was also equally GREAT because he managed to KICK Guru Amardass ji to the FLOOR !! ( and whats NEXT..a Claim..." maybe Guru Amardass ji was afraid of DASSU....and pretended to massage his foot ??? I can imagine a Sikh claiming even that..the way things are going...nothing new..).
I can cite so many such sakhis....a complete waste of time and having to accept insults to my Guru sahibs....but many sikhs seem to be swearing by such sakhis...????.
How about Baba Prithi Chand ??? Elder brother of Guru Arjun Ji..His Family lineage has also started a Parallel GURUDOM..the Dhirmaliahs - who actually SHOT at Guru Teg bahadur Ji to kill him..BUT IF you see the CROWDS of "SIKHS" bowing at DERA BABA WADBHAG SINGH..you could be excused for believing that Baba Wadbhag Singh is a GREAT SIKH (and NOT an ASSASSIN who shot at the GURU and ran away to the hills to escape the wrath of the Sikhs). The Dhirmalliahs..the Meennas.. the ram raiyahs all claim to be SIKHS and they also have "separate GURBANIS...."..and Living GURUS...SODHIS..etc etc... Following this line of thought..any one can be a "sikh"...even if his ancestors shot and tried to kill a GURU..so what ???..if a son of a Guru can kick a Guru and get away with it..another son can get a Guru to wipe his foot with his beard.....another can get his brother Guru martyred..another can shoot..and miss..so what..he missed didnt he...so why cant he be a BABA and sikhs cant visit his dera and get their bhoots out?? Alas....what are we coming to...japposatnamwaheguru:

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #29 (**permalink**) 22-Apr-2012, 17:53 PM

Bhagat ji and harry ji..Hugging is completely natural and as per Gurbani..Gurmukh baitheh saffan vichhayeh...a Sikh is essentially .into discourse..discussing..debating..learning..disagre eing.. ( sometimes)BUT Never "hating..fighting..insulting..shutting the other out.."...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380

The other day at Gurdwara Stockton USA, One of the oldest Gurdwaras in America...some Taksalis/baba derawadees not only assaulted the LONE Awtar Singh Missionary and his american sikh wife..BUT looted his stall of all his cds books etc. These MISCREANTS waited patiently for ALL the sangat to go home...before they had the "courage" of their Banna/weapons/khandas etc they were wearing in huge numbers..to attack and loot the stall of this man. WHY ?? Becasue he doenst beleive in DG..and sells books of Kala Afghana, and similar writers. Such behaviour is NOT of a GURU KA SIKH..no matter how high his dumalla..or how blue his chola..or how heavy his karra..or how curved his 9 inch kirpaan..or maalaas around his neck...its behaviour of a COWARD who attacks only in a CROWD of similar giddharrs. ON SPN we dont behave like that...so go ahead and have a huggh...include me as well....mundahugmundahugmundahug

prakash.s.bagga · #30 (**permalink**) 23-Apr-2012, 23:02 PM

Where do we find the concept o "GADEE" in the lineage of SIKH GuRu way of life.?

Prakash.s.Bagga

passingby · #31 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

....and then passed the "baton" to Guru Angad Ji...bypassing his flesh and blood becasue they were Both FOUND WANTING..

Quote:

Dassu was SON of GURU Angad Ji (Also Found wanting and BYPASSED for Gurgadee by his father Guru Angad Ji )

I wish to point out what looks like a flaw in the thought presented. Did the Gurus first looked at their sons for passing on the 'baton' and only if they were found wanting then looked elsewhere in the sangat?

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #32 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 12:00 PM

The two SONS of Guru Nanak ji were TESTED...as was everyone else...in EQUAL and LEVEL PLAYING GROUND...and the SONS FAILED in each "task"....for example Guru Ji "accidnetally" dropped a container in a CESS POOL...and asked Baba Sri chand..to go pick it up...Baba Ji REFUSED POINT BLANK..saying.."dont we have more clean containers ?? that I must go dirty myself ?? However Bhai Lehnna Ji jumped in instantly and recovered the container...There were many many such "tests" for obedience, humility etc..and Bhai lehnna Ji was the ONLY ONE who passed all...

Guru Amardass Ji also TESTED....Bhai Jetha Ji( Guru ramdass Ji his son-in-law) and his SONS..were asked to prepare a THARRA...or seat for the Guru Ji. Both made tharras..BUT Guru Amardass ji expressed DISAPPROVAL and asked them to demolish them and remake.. THIS happened Again and Again..UNTIL the SON withdrew muttering that the old man must be mad...and the LONE Candidate left standing was Bhai jetha Ji..who was anointed GURU RAMDASS JI...

Now another ."passer by" may now jump in and ask....??/ Isnt that a flawed way of choosing a GURU..for heaven sake..a GURU just because he dived into a cess pool and recovered a cup...?? or the One who mindlessly went on making and demolishing tharras..got the GURUSHIP ?? Heavens???? is Guruship bestowed like that ???

Bhai Amardass Ji at age 70++ travelled 12 MILES in the DARKNESS (PITCH BLACK)..from Khadoor Sahib to BEAS RIVER to fetch a pitcher of water DAILY for 12 YEARS without a single day MISS....and Going from Khadoor sahib..HE WALKED BACKWARDS ( so as NOT to have his BACK to the GURU )....and This was done after Bhai ji had FINISHED washing up the langgar utensils bhandeh etc etc..around MIDNIGHT....daily and the water was fetched ready for AMRITVELA ishnaan of Guru Angad JI !! So YES Bhai Amardass Ji also got to be NEXT GURU...inspite of Guru Angad ji having two robust healthy sons who didnt lift a finger but wanted the "PROPERTY" as their Birth right..and hence KICKED GURU AMARDASS ji off the stage in anger....IF that isnt called "FOUND WANTING"..then I am sorry i cannot answer...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380

There are lots of "passers by" who ask..why no FEMALES got to be Gurus ?? were the Sikh gurus anti-women ?? Why this and why that..?? Only GURU JI knows 100%..we tell what we know...and thats the fact that the SIKHS were THOROUGHLY TESTED and the Sons, mammas, chachas, bhuas, fuffarrs, etc etc ALL had an EQUAL CHANCE !!

passingby · #33 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 12:31 PM

It seems strange that some stories are being rejected on grounds such as Hindu orientation, while a person walking backwards is being accepted as a sign of devotedness! Isnt this equivalent of relying on outer show to test spirituality?

Walking backwards! So, today people who perform teerath yatras doing dandwat pranaams (some for hundred of miles) would be very meritorious indeed!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380

Some things are being rejected as being illogical and against Sikh principles while some others are accepted as 'only Guru knows best'.

I wish to mention here that I am not disputing any claim of Guruship. I am trying to point out a flaw in the idea presented.
My own personal idea is based on my spiritual beliefs pertaining to inner state of mind. A spiritual person of the calibre of a Puran Guru would be able to see the deepest and darkest corner of my mind and would be able to know what kind of energy is working where and what kind of movements are occurring where. He would not need to rely on outer show to measure my inner state.
We hear stories of disciples tested by masters since the ancient times. But I feel the tests are not for measuring, they are actually a practice for gaining strength, consolidating a state and ironing out impurities.

It is wrong to say that Guru Amardass ji became the next Guru because he performed remarkable feats of seva at the old age of 70. I am pretty sure even more remarkable feats of preseverance towards one's chosen target can be found in human civilisations around the world. Guru Amardass ji became the next Guru because he was SPIRITUALLY evolved to that level.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380
If such testing was of any importance then it should have been done in every case down the line till Guru Gobind Singh ji.

harry haller · #34 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 14:06 PM

I think the demolishing and rebuilding of the THARRA is a good measure of a mans patience.

The walking backwards is a sign of pure humility and love, only a true Gursikh could do this with any sincerity, to the rest of us, such action would be impossible to carry out, as by our very manmukh nature, ours would be a different agenda,

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #35 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 16:44 PM

Passing By Ji..
There are actions..and there are actions..just as there are rituals and there are rituals..
we have been instructed by Gurbani to USE OUR GOD GIVEN INTELLECT to discern the difference.."AAkleean SAHIB SEVEAH..aakleean keecheh DAAN "....means the SAHIB..the CREATOR must be "served" not blindly but by the use of our intellect..."daan" (not only just moeny gold lands or some roti to a beggar..BUT also devotion, time, expertise, etc etc.) must also be very "intellectually" performed. Therefore a SIKH need not be..giving a so called Sadhu at the door half his roti for fear of being "cursed" by the holey man..or in expectation of being "aseesed" by him...the Sikh can think and see for himself...daan in gurmatt carries no "PUNN or PAAP"..no curse and no asees..because thats in the provision of the CREATOR ONLY...not man no matter how HOLY or HOLEY !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38380

Lots of people do drink water used for washing feet in Gurdwaras..many also walk backwards, many rub their foreheads on each step...many bathe at each step of Baolis in the effort to escape the 84 lakh joons...but who knows which one is fake and which one is rightfully pleasing the Guru with TRUE LOVE..??...who knows how many got sick from drinking the filthy water ( which by the way is NOT at all recommended in any Gurbani Tuk )...only recently do such news begining to comeout..like the 36 COWS that DIED after consuming Guru Ka Langgar from the DERA of Dhadrianwallah Parmeshar dwar recently..and that certain Takhat was serving ROTTEN DAAL in Langgar ( daal whcih had more susree than seeds )..certainly we have come a LONG WAY from whats written in GURBANI...Mata KHEEVEE serving KHEER GHYALI - Pudding with ghee mixed in !!!( I wonder how many modern sikhs woudl DARE to eat that type of kheer today given the high incidence of Diabetes/BP/Cholestrol etc among us..ha ha ???..but the question here is NOT about ghee/kheer BUT the GREED which leads to susree infected rotten daal to be cooked for sangats..???..Even IF there were Sangats who could eat the ghee kheer..the GREED stops the servers...so the "akal" is MISSING...its misuse of akal into CHATRAYEE..chalakii....and this same Chatraiee..SIANYAPPAN..chalakian etc being used in walking backwards, matha raggrriang on gurdwara steps, wiping sangat shoes, etc ( BY SOME ) that Gurbani says WONT GET any results !! Japji Sahib !! WE have to be DISCERNING..in order to "see" which is HINDU beleif/ritual...and which may be of benefit to us as Per GURBANI/GURMATT ..BOTH may LOOK alike..BUT there is a subtle difference...a Wife may forego dinner until her husband returns home (out of love)..and this is different from Karva Chauth driven by peer pressure..sass pressure..friends etc etc..asking..why you didnt keep karva chauth...dont you "LOVE" your hubby ?? you wnat him to die early ?? I routinely wait until my kids return home and we have dinner together...but i dont call it Karva hauth.and its not a necessity..if i am ****** off i may eat alone !! Thats the difference...and GURBANI instructs US to see it...but if we chose to follow the crowd like sheep..its OUR fault..not Gurbani/gurmatt deficiency...

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #36 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 16:59 PM

I also think its Wrong to say that Bhai Amardass ji got the Gurgadee solely becasue of his "seva"...THATS the idea being DRIVEN along by almost ALL parcharaks ragis granthis, our Jathedars etc..and especially the BABAS and DERA Heads..because such "devotion" is invariably CRAVED by them too....as shown by the Sirsa Baba wlaking fully shoed through PUDDLES of Filthy water on the Kachi Road and looking at his devotees rushing to DRINK those puddles as "Holy water/blessed water/amrit "....so this aspect of Bhai Amardass jis "seva" is blown out of proportion...He became GURU becasue he was Spiritually FIT and its shown by his penning Bani like ANAND SAHIB....a Shahkaar equal to Japji Sahib penned by Guru nanak ji sahib....no person who simply walked backward could be capable of writing Anand Sahib. The walking backward and the other seva is Guru jis way of showing LOVE to His master..and i find nothing wrong with that. ( Btw on YoU-Tube one cna watch hundreds of Live vidoes of SADHUS who ROLL for THOUSAND MILES to teeraths, who stand for ages on one leg..who have held one arm high for DECADES....who sleep on sharp nails as beds etc etc etc..BUT you wont find any who has written ANAND SAHIB..not even the Radha Soami Gurus or anyone else...