Shabad Vechaar - We get that we Wish

Scarlet Pimpernel · #37 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 03:53 AM

Quote:

So I guess I'm with Japji Sahib

Isi ji I'm with Ambarsaria Ji even when he is not with himself.In any case we happen to be male or female etc.We are biological creatures but our Guru addressed our Self.
The Self does not have gender ,well I hope it does not as I don't want my Self running after girls for all eternity,as I have done that on already on earth and not very well!

Ambarsaria · #38 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

Isi ji I'm with Ambarsaria Ji even when he is not with himself.In any case we happen to be male or female etc.We are biological creatures but our Guru addressed our Self.
The Self does not have gender ,well I hope it does not as I don't want my Self running after girls for all eternity,as I have done that on already on earth and not very well!

sp veer ji I thought you were to untangle my knotted mind.

You instead just played with the knot

Sat Sri Akal.

Scarlet Pimpernel · #39 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 04:30 AM

Veer Ji Let us be jolly and study the story behind the saying "ladies first"
Long ago, a man 'n woman were madly in love.They wanted to get married but their parents didn't approve.
So they decided to kill themselves.... They thought the best way to do it was to leap off a clip.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37813-shabad-vechaar-we-get-we-wish.html
The man couldn't bare to see his sweetheart fall before him.. !So he convinced her he would go first, and he jumped of the cliff......
But the "Lady" did not not jump !

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #40 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 05:47 AM

Its a fact of life that "prostitution" the world over has since time immemorial been a " female" occupation..the Oldest profession !! Even those not "female" wear Female clothes and pretend to be Females (Heejrrahs ). In todys world where there are plenty of males in this profession (called Gigolos), and Gay marriages, child pornography, child trafficking, the overwhelming cross gender dressers dress in female clothes..women far outnumber men/so called "men"....so when a word like "Prostitute" is used its always a woman.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Of course Gurbani is universal and timeless and has an underlying bedrock of UNIVERSAL TRUTH.
This is the one main reason why the Sikh Rehat Maryada also states..that a SIKH may NOT allow his "DAUGHTER" to marry a NON-SIKH. There is NO MENTION of a SIKH and his SON. Some have argued that this is ultravires the Gender equality of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji etc etc...and SON should also be mentioned in the SRM...but these failed to see why ONLY the daughter is mentioned and its NOT due to Gender inequality/Bias at all..but for a completely different reason !!

Ishna · #41 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 07:19 AM

Sorry to have confused you!

What I'm trying to say is that because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was written by men, with an anticipated audience of men, they have used the term 'woman' or 'prostitute' when they are, at the CORE, talking about lust. (my opinion)

As a woman, I do need to read those parts of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with an open mind, as us ladies are often put together with 'gold' as a nasty temptation. So my mind reads 'greed and lust' not literally 'gold and women'.

And Gyaniji, where are you going talking about prostitutes and who the daughter of a Sikh can marry in the same post? Are the issues related?

What is the reason behind only specifying a daughter must marry a Sikh? One would think the egalitarian condition would be 'Sikhs should only marry Sikhs'.

However that is possibly going off topic and has been discussed at length in other posts, but you dropped the carrot when you said:

Quote:

but these failed to see why ONLY the daughter is mentioned and its NOT due to Gender inequality/Bias at all..but for a completely different reason !!

It sounds like you might know the ultimate reason why it is worded so in the SRM? And how that is related to prostitution?

japjisahib04 · #42 (**permalink**) 02-Jan-2012, 14:59 PM

What I'm trying to say is that because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was written by men, with an anticipated audience of men, they have used the term 'woman' or 'prostitute' when they are, at the CORE, talking about lust. (my opinion)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813

Even otherwise if we take the meaning of prostitute as suggested by Gyani Ji, then how will those man who think of conspiring against the 'istri'
will act as prostitute, as prostitution is linked with woman.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni

Ambarsaria · #43 (**permalink**) 03-Jan-2012, 02:44 AM

Veer japjisahib04 ji if I may comment at least in reference to the pankti I referred to as below,

ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥
Anṯ kāl jo isṯarī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. Besvā jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||2||

To the end who keeps thinking of women, and die so wanting. Such so again and again born in prostitution life

Myth used to relate: Re-incarnation
HOW:ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ
Why give example of female prostitute: Perhaps they understood that it was the most common mode of physical prostitution of the times. This is a very specific message with very specific intent and there was no need felt for political correctness by any of the Guru jis.

Comment: Trilochan ji were addressing people who would have believed in re-incarnation. To use it as a tool and not supporting re-incarnation, they stated that you are going to end up in the form of what you are denigrating through Kaam/lust.

Taranjeet Singh ji did a great job picking the title for the thread as it is basically for this case,

Quote:

We get that we Wish (of others)

This is how I take it. I am not sure if it addresses your query.

Sat Sri Akal.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #44 (**permalink**) 03-Jan-2012, 10:59 AM

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for the MAJORITY ( even though the MINORITY is also ocvered by DEFAULT)
Otherwise everytime ..say a Brahmin is mentioned,,in Brackets it would have to say..( also Mullahs, GYANIS..Chrstian priests.....etc etc etc..and STILL maybe if a RABBI was not mentioned..someone would come along and point THAT out !! why rabbi not mentioned ?? was Guru ji nati-semitic ?? anti-Jew ??...

..stretching the argument a bit but nevertheless logical..)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
So the Tuk that says..aant kaal jo ISTREE simreh (jaan marad simreh, jaan khusra simreh..???)...aant kaal jo makan simreh, bungalow simreh, mansion simreh, high rise condo simreh....aant kaal jo sona simreh..bank account (possibly name of bank also) simreh...Why leave out aant Kaal jo ZAMEEN simreh...becasue ALL JATTS die for theri LAND !! they even murder their fathers for the land....
I ma NOT saying that SONA...is just GOLD..it is also silver, diamonds, heereh, jawahraat, pearls..and in the modern context it is also Laser jet INK ( which drop for drop is more COSTLY than GOLD too ) or certian trace metals which are priced in NANO Grammes...
So when Gurbani says SONA..it means GREED, LUST, and lots more !!! So YES when a ISTERI PROSTITUTE is mentioned..it certainly COVERS the male pros too...the Hijrrahs too....i Fail to see whats the argument ???
THE CORE CONCEPTS stand OUT for ever..lets remember those and act so they dont affect our daily lives....

Ishna Ji..perhaps you can write to Dr karminder Singh at dhillon99@Gmail.com for the Complete article on WHY the SRM mentions Daughter of a sikh ONLY...I have the article somewhere but my younger bro wrote it ages ago and by now I am sure he has more material added to it..so get it from the "horses mouth"..

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #45 (**permalink**) 03-Jan-2012, 11:07 AM

If anyone can provide me with figures that prove that MALE Prostitutes OUTNUMBER FEMALES ??......this Profession is Female dominated worldwide..from DAY ONE !! So we cannot accuse/point our fingers at the Gurus for being gender biased...Facts dont lie.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Fcat number two..In GURBANI its stated that...MARRIAGE is between Male and Female ONLY....yet Gay marriages are now LEGAL in certain countries..Can a GAY Couple holding a legal marriage cert turn around and accuse the Gurus of BIAS ?? Certainly NOT becasue even today Marriage in the MAJORITY is between male and female ONLY.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37813
Maat Pita bin baal na hoee....is for the MAJORITY..maybe tomorrow tow MALES happily married will be able to get a lab to take their male sperm and combine it with an unknown female egg and beget a son/daughter....but GURBANI declaration that Maat Pita bin baal na hoee will still stand for the MAJORITY.