Can You Be A Sikh Without The 5ks?

Shanger · #1 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 06:13 AM

I read that they're not mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ. But the Sikh Rehat Maryada

I wiki'd

and found that

Quote:

In 1915 and later in 1931, attempts were made to create a modern standard Rehat (Rehat or code). This effort involved several Sikh scholars who worked to produce the current version. In 1950 the "Sikh Rehat Maryada" was finally approved. The document has been accepted as the official version which provides guidelines for all Sikh individuals and communities around the world. Its implementation has resulted in a high level of uniformity in the religious and social practices of Sikhism.

If they are just merely scholars why should their word be followed?

But then I read that Guru Gobind Singhji implemented them-

The_Five_Ks

Quote:

The Five Ks, or panj kakaar/kakke, are five articles of faith that Khalsa Sikhs wear at all times at the command of the tenth Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh who so ordered at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar in 1699. The Five Ks are not just symbols but Articles of Faith which collectively form the external identity and the Khalsa devotee's commitment to the Sikh Rehni (Way of Life).

Does that mean that are compulsory for a Sikh?

Or would you say that Sikhi is more a state of mind?

Or is it that you can be a sikh without them, but just not as devout as one with them?

I'm not attacking the 5ks by the way, personally I think karas look cool and kirpans are terrific ideas.

Ambarsaria · #2 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 06:30 AM

Shanger ji, your motives have come out less than sincere with the other thread that you created. The emphasis is on divisiveness. Dealing with generally sincere, meek, humble and respectfully responding people you need to rope yourself in a bit.

You don't need wiki to understand Sikhism, that is if you sincerity of intentions to do so or rather be a devil's advocate in your writing style.

The important information about this is readily available from the following,

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikh-dharma-manual.html
Where appropriate the document covers the necessary explanations.

When you get your baptization (that is if you ever do versus just playing with people

), there will be ample dialog and cross-examination of virtues and purposes for you.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34286-can-you-be-sikh-without-5ks.html

Your garbage comments like "karas look cool" are dis-respectful and there to inflame and belittle and do not belong to a 21 year old (i.e. if you stated your age right).

I will really appreciate if you can close out if you got your answers in the following thread that you started and are ready to become a sikh,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...ism-right.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34286

Dig and be informed if you have sincerity of purpose.

Sat Sri Akal.

Shanger · #3 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Shanger ji, your motives have come out less than sincere with the other thread that you created. The emphasis is on divisiveness. Dealing with generally sincere, meek, humble and respectfully responding people you need to rope yourself in a bit.

You're being unreasonable and I deny those claims, but lets not let any "grudges" from one thread go into another. Though if everyone feels I am only here to cause offence then I can leave if it's causing people distress.

Quote:

The important information about this is readily available from the following,

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikh-dharma-manual.html

When you get your baptization (that is if you

), there will be ample dialog and cross-examination of virtues and purposes for you.

Where appropriate the document covers the necessary explanations.

Dig and be informed.

Sat Sri Akal.

That was an extremely long read with many pages, but I found these parts which I think are relevant to this discussion-

Quote:

i. A Sikh should, in no way, harbour any antipathy to the hair of the head with which his child is born. He should not temper with the hair with which the child is born. He should add the suffix "Singh" to the name of his son & "Kaur" to the name of his daughter. A Sikh should keep the hair of his sons and daughters intact.

Quote:

t. For a Sikh, there is no restriction or requirement as to dress except that he must wear Kachhehra (A drawer type garment fastened by a fitted string round the waist, very often worn as an underwear.) and turban. A Sikh woman may or may not tie turban.

Quote:

Ik aunkar satnam karta purakh nirbhau nirwair akal murat ajuni saibhang gur prasad.

p. After this, one from amongst the five beloved ones should explain to the initiates the discipline of the order : * Today you are reborn in the true Guru's household, ending the cycle of migration, and joined the Khalsa Panth (order). *Your spiritual father is now Guru Gobind Singh and spiritual mother, Mata Sahib Kaur. *Your place of birth is Kesgarh Sahib and your native place is Anandpur Sahib. You, being the sons of one father, are, inter-se yourselves and other baptised Sikhs, spiritual brothers. You have become the pure Khalsa, having renounced your previous lineage, professional background, calling (occupation), beliefs, that is, having given up all connections with your caste, descent, birth, country, religion, etc. You are to worship none except the One Timeless Being (Waheguru) no God, Goddess, incarnation or prophet. You are not to think of anyone except the ten Gurus and anything except their gospel as your saviour. You are supposed to know Gurmukhi (Punjabi alphabet). (If you do not, you must learn it). And recite, or listen in to the recitation of, the under mentioned scriptural compositions, the daily repetition of which is ordained, every day

1) The Japuji Sahib, (2) The Jaap Sahib, (3) The Ten Sawayyas (Quartrains), beginning "sarawag sudh", (4) The Sodar Rahiras and the Sohila. Besides, you should read from or listen in to the recitation from the Guru Granth Sahib . Have, on your person, all the time, the five K's :

I. The Keshas (unshorn hair),
II. The Kirpan {sheathed sword} (The length of the sword to be worn is not prescribed.,
III. The Kachhehra (The Kachhehra (drawers like garment) may be made from any cloth, but its legs should not reach down to below the shins.),
IV. The Kanga (comb),
V. The Karha {steel bracelet} (The Karha should be of pure steel.)

But I am still unsure of whether or not the 5Ks are compulsory to be Sikh?

spnadmin · #4 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 07:00 AM

I would like to add that I am increasingly irritated with a style of presentation that is based on what are nothing more than straw man arguments and the habit of teasing out a sentence here or there and building case around nonexistent assumptions. Shanger that is not only your method of beginning a discussion, but your habit of dialog with others. It is tempting to close this thread now but that might stop individuals who have quality ideas from expressing them. I am going to delete the poll because it samples a very limited and skewed range of possible answers.

It was also interesting for me to find that you set poll options so that voters names would be displayed along with their votes.

Shanger · #5 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Your garbage comments like "karas look cool" are dis-respectful and there to inflame and belittle and do not belong to a 21 year old (i.e. if you stated your age right).

I was being genuine, I actually do think karas look cool, I have friends and family who wear them, you need to stop being paranoid.

Calling my comments garbage is disrespectful, but I will not stoop to your level, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say there was a misunderstanding.

Quote:

I will really appreciate if you can close out if you got your answers in the following thread that you started and are ready to become a sikh,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...ism-right.html

Dig and be informed if you have sincerity of purpose.

Sat Sri Akal.

What do you mean "close out"?

I will get back to that thread very soon, I just had this on my mind.

Thanks

Shanger · #6 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spnadmin

I would like to add that I am increasingly irritated with a style of presentation that is based on what are nothing more than straw man arguments and the habit of teasing out a sentence here or there and building case around nonexistent assumptions.

This thread was a question, not an argument.

Quote:

Shanger that is not only your method of beginning a discussion, but your habit of dialog with others.

I remain polite despite being told I am insincere, have garbage comments etc. Not once have I resorted to ad hominem or anything.

Quote:

I am going to delete the poll because it samples a very limited and skewed range of possible answers.

You could have instead edited it to something more suitable?

Quote:

It was also interesting for me to find that you set poll options so that voters names would be displayed along with their votes.

I've read the posts of the a few people here and I am now familiar with a few posters and some of their insights, that is why I made the poll public. The poll itself says "this is a public poll" so I did not attempt to deceive anyone. Also with a public poll people feel more inclined to give reason for their choice rather than just voting and not saying why, I don't see why everyone is trying to make me out as some villain.

Ambarsaria · #7 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 07:51 AM

Shanger ji,

Example of a piercing Khanda, Chakra and slashing Kirpans used in early Sikh battles

The use and necessity of all 5Ks is well described in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.
link below again if you missed ,

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikh-dharma-manual.html

The 5K's are in the category of Rehats in the above document. So if you pay due respect you will find that you don't pick one being cool and the other being uncool when these are presented together.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34286

The 5Ks were part of the Baptization into Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh ji and when you ask questions or use flippent comments (not even philosophical arguments to say the least) you got to own up and visualize that you are standing in front of Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is not a triviality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34286

If you take the approach that you are asking or inquiring as though you are talking to the appropriate Gurus and Bhagats, and others in Gurbani or otherwise, you will be accorded the necessary responses.

Sat Sri Akal.

Shanger · #8 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Shanger ji,

Example of a piercing Khanda, Chakra and slashing Kirpans used in early Sikh battles

The use and necessity of all 5Ks is well described in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.
link below again if you missed ,

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikh-dharma-manual.html

The 5K's are in the category of Rehats in the above document. So if you pay due respect you will find that you don't pick one being cool and the other being uncool when these are presented together.

You are putting words into my mouth and that is unfair, just because I said karas are cool does not mean that I am saying that the other Ks are uncool, seems like more paranoia.

Quote:

The 5Ks were part of the Baptization into Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh ji and when you ask questions or use flippent comments (not even philosophical arguments to say the least) you got to own up and visualize that you are standing in front of Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is not a triviality.

I've simply asked a question in this thread, which hasn't been answered. I know what the Rehat says, but does that make it the final word?

I have read that Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ does not mention the 5Ks, yet the rehat & Guru Gobind Singhji does, I am confused now.

Because from what I've read on that site, a sikh MUST wear the 5ks. Yet 2 people here voted "No" on the poll.

Quote:

If you take the approach that you are asking or inquiring as though you are talking to the appropriate Gurus and Bhagats, and others in Gurbani or otherwise, you will be accorded the necessary responses.

Sat Sri Akal.

I asked-

Quote:

Does that mean that are compulsory for a Sikh?

Or would you say that Sikhi is more a state of mind?

Or is it that you can be a sikh without them, but just not as devout as one with them?

This is fine as an inquiry, what more do you want? & you have still not given me your answer. Or will you continue to dodge the question and instead post the rehat site again and question my motives some more?

Ambarsaria · #9 (**permalink**) 27-Jan-2011, 08:18 AM

Shanger ji, you helped answer in your paraphrasing, thanks.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34286

"I've simply asked a question in this thread, which hasn't been answered. I know what the Rehat says, but does that make it the final word"

The answer is a resounding "YES"

See we can close a topic if we are effective in communication.

Cheers,

Sat Sri Akal.